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I am reloading reduced loads for 44 Spec/44 mag and 45 LC. Around 8 gr HP-38. Because the volume of powder takes up such a small space I want to place a thin cardboard wad over the powder to keep it in place. Any problems with that? I use a thin wad over powder in all my Black Powder loads with no probs. Anybody see any problems with smokeless?
 

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Card wad...fast powder....lots of space to get a running start at the base of the bullet...seems like a good idea at first to keep the powder in position, but I'd pass.
 

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I see data for 44 spcl and HP38 but nothing mentioned about "card wads" .
My first thought is a tuft of Kapok or Dacron fiber or ... I remember seeing a small folded piece of toilet paper used as the "wad" in a cast bullet , light powder charge , rifle load .
But you have to watch for any burning kapok / dacron / toilet paper that may not be consumed and shot out the barrel ... don't want to start any fires .

My third idea is a wadcutter bullet , deep seated to take up some of that space , think 148 gr. HBWC used in 38 special target loads . But where you going to get 44 wadcutters .
I bought a 41 spcl / mag wadcutter mould from NOE 2 years ago ... but I'm sure every mould is sold out now .

I'm leery of a "card " wad in a brass case ...could work just fine but somewhere in my long ago memory banks it seems the card wad was not encouraged and the kapok / dacron / toilet paper wads were encouraged .
Gary
 

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'Filler' wads are rarely used anymore. Back when I first started reloading it was more common to use kapok wads with light loads of position sensitive powders but history has shown that the wads do cause problems.
Black powder needs to have all airspace removed to prevent the fast burning that happens when it is stirred as it burns. Smokeless powder is different and today there are a number of powders that are more or less insensitive to position in the case when fired.
HP-38 is not particularly sensitive and either is TiteGroup so wads are not necessary nor desirable. Be careful not to double charge your cases and leave the wad for blanks and black powder loads. You'll be fine.
 

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Elk Whisperer (Super Moderator)
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HP-38 (5.5-11 grains as per Hodgdon on-line data) has more case fill than Bullseye and I've shot thousands of 429421's over 5.5 grains of it (data from Lyman's 48th)

I don't think you need an over powder card. Black powder NEEDS to be compressed with no air gap between it and the projectile whereas 99.999% of smokeless powders don't.

RJ
 
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HP-38 (5.5-11 grains as per Hodgdon on-line data) has more case fill than Bullseye and I've shot thousands of 429421's over 5.5 grains of it (data from Lyman's 48th)

I don't think you need an over powder card. Black powder NEEDS to be compressed with no air gap between it and the projectile whereas 99.999% of smokeless powders don't.

RJ
OK, I give up. I'll pull the wads. Seemed like a good idea at the time.
 

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Elk Whisperer (Super Moderator)
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If you have some already loaded that way I doubt very much it will hurt anything in a revolver, just an unneeded extra.

Good question tho, glad we could help.

RJ
 
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I am reloading reduced loads for 44 Spec/44 mag and 45 LC. Around 8 gr HP-38. Because the volume of powder takes up such a small space I want to place a thin cardboard wad over the powder to keep it in place. Any problems with that? I use a thin wad over powder in all my Black Powder loads with no probs. Anybody see any problems with smokeless?
You're asking for a jugged cylinder, barrel, or blowing out a cylinder wall. I know why you want to do this, but that isn't the way. Use a bulkier powder that fills the case to at least 75% of the available space. What works for black powder, doesn't for smokelelss and vice versa.
 
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Seemed like a good idea at the time.
Life is filled with those :)

HP-38 and W231, same powder according to Hodgdon, are purpose designed to be economical and efficient target powders. They are not super low density, like Trail Boss, but they meter better, and they are not position sensitive. Charge volume is low, or lower than the slower powders like Unique. It's not a problem. Think of it as lots of loads/lb.

The fact that they do take up very little space is sort of an issue. They're not prone to bridging, but once in a while a charge hangs up a bit, and the excess winds up in the next round. You don't want a charge and a half in a single round. (That's not limited to HP-38, BTW). It's a good practice to do a visual check before seating a bullet. Even small differences are pretty easy to spot.
 

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I am reloading reduced loads for 44 Spec/44 mag and 45 LC. Around 8 gr HP-38. Because the volume of powder takes up such a small space I want to place a thin cardboard wad over the powder to keep it in place. Any problems with that? I use a thin wad over powder in all my Black Powder loads with no probs. Anybody see any problems with smokeless?
Loading cast bullet's in rifles I have lot's of MTY space in some loads like a load for 30-06 is 13grs of Red Dot. You could parka car in there with the powder. Easy fix though that will probably work for you. Toilet paper! I put a quarter sheet of toilet paper on top of every chg to hold the powder up to the flash hole. Get the paper in there and then set it with a new wood pencil! Works great!
 

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I used to load some .30 M1 carbine loads in .308 cases. I always stuffed cotton balls or toilet paper over the charge. No problems at all.
 

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Loading cast bullet's in rifles I have lot's of MTY space in some loads like a load for 30-06 is 13grs of Red Dot.
Don, did you make a comparison without the TP by any chance?

If so, how much difference did it make??
 

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Don, did you make a comparison without the TP by any chance?

If so, how much difference did it make??
No I didn't. I have a habit some might not like. If I find something that works for me, I stick with it. I read about using the TP and it made sense to me. Years ago I had some messed up 7mm mag case's that needed blowing out loaded up a chg under min with160gr bullet's and boy did they recoil. Talked about with guy's and was to understand the problem was the flame was jumping the powder and burning from the front back. Was told to point the rifle up to keep the powder to the flash hole and it would stop doing that. Did that and it did stop it. Decided to try TP in handgun case's as most my loads are fast powder and not a lot of volume. Now if I've had the luck I've had because of the TP or not, I don't really know. But what I do know is I have never had the pressure problem doing it. The 30-06 is thefirst rifle I started cast bullet's in and when I saw all the MTY case with 13.0grs of Red Dot I figured TP certainly wouldn't hurt anything. It does make sense to me that your going to get more consistent ignition with the powder held to the flash hole some how. I have read for years about guy using Kpock, think that's how to spell it, and more recently cotton balls. I have no idea what kapok is and don't have any cotton balls around normally. Something just now occurred to me and that is maybe using dryer lint! But, as I said when I find something that works for me I have to have a really good reason to quit it. Kind of like powder. Powder on the market now I've never heard of and it's seldom I experiment looking for a new powder. Have found over the years that the powder's from the late 60's and early 70's still do what they did back then. These temp powder's sound to me like a sales pitch. I do most my load development in the cooler spring month's and have never had outside temp effect me that I know of. A lot of guy's seem to turn reloading into a science and if it works for them it's fine by me. But all I really want is a bullet to hit pretty darn close to where I aim. Most the ballistic stuff guy's write about leave me in a fog. Never have been able to get through a whole post! But if it works for them I'd say go for it!
 

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Late to the thread but in over 42+ years of reloading I have NEVER used any sort of a 'filler' over any powder charges, rifle or pistol, I have loaded.

Understand however I am very careful and before I load any 'reduced' loads I ensure there are no hidden 'details' such a 'filler recommended or required' statements about the load I am using but I never have.

I am currently loading a few calibers where the load data (from the manual) results in half or less case fill (no filler required) and accuracy is phenomenal with no issues with consistency.

One of my loads is 9 grains of Unique with 125 grain cast bullets ini .30-30 and there is lots of airspace but no issues.

I believe fillers (cards, wads etc.) are somewhat a thing of the past when we had fewer powders, with some harder to ignite and/or more 'position sensitive' than a lot of the powders today.
 

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The Troll Whisperer (Moderator)
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Use a reduced load of AA5744 in all centerfire rifle cases (except KHornet and 6x45 mm) and ALWAYS insert a one inch square of thin tissue paper into the case with appropriate allen wrench to seat wad and tamp down. Very even discharge and grouping of all bullets.
 

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I don't remember reading about using a filler in a handgun cartridge, even from the old, old days, 1920's through the 1960's. I have used and still use fillers in some rifle loads, never a problem in over 40 years of doing so. If you're going to use them, do your research and use them right before you just load a bunch because it seemed like a good idea.
 

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Loading cast bullet's in rifles I have lot's of MTY space in some loads like a load for 30-06 is 13grs of Red Dot. You could parka car in there with the powder. Easy fix though that will probably work for you. Toilet paper! I put a quarter sheet of toilet paper on top of every chg to hold the powder up to the flash hole. Get the paper in there and then set it with a new wood pencil! Works great!
I don't have any new pencils ... will an old unused pencil work ... finding new pencils is getting hard . I did find Toilet Paper !
Gary :)
 

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I am reloading reduced loads for 44 Spec/44 mag and 45 LC. Around 8 gr HP-38. Because the volume of powder takes up such a small space I want to place a thin cardboard wad over the powder to keep it in place. Any problems with that? I use a thin wad over powder in all my Black Powder loads with no probs. Anybody see any problems with smokeless?

Don't do it. Black powder is volume sensitive hence needing the wad

Hp38 isn't position sensitive. Actually use it for similar role.
And also most manuals will tell you don't use a wad for modern smokeless powder.
 
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