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<SUP>Acts 2:30</SUP> And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
<SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-27511>31</SUP> So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.
 

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Act 2:37 Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brethren, what shall we do?"
Act 2:38 And Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Act 2:39 For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him."
Act 2:40 And he testified with many other words and exhorted them, saying, "Save yourselves from this crooked generation."
Act 2:41 So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

You left out Repentance and Baptism for the forgiveness of your sins.
 

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Is a faith that does not recognize one's sin and seek God's forgiveness a saving faith?

Jesus said that to enter the Kingdom of Heaven we must be born again of water and the Holy Spirit. Here, Peter directly links baptism to forgiveness and the receipt of the Holy Spirit.

It all needs Faith, an active faith.
 

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Believe and confess Jesus as Lord (Rom 10:9-10). The Holy Spirit convicts us of sin and baptizes us into the new life (2 Cor 3:6, Acts 1:5). Repentance is required and not possible without saving faith (2 Cor 7:9-10). Water baptism is commanded by Jesus and is the answer of an obedient believer (Mat 28:19, Acts 10:48).

Since God draws (John 6:44) and gives us faith (Eph 2:8-9), the Holy Spirit convicts of sin (John 16:8), and God grants repentance (Act 11:18, 2 Tim 2:25), it truly is not a work of man (again Eph 2:8-9). In fact it is impossible for man to believe without God's intervention (2 Cor 4:4-6). It really is amazing grace, the unmerited favor of the sovereign Lord. He grants it to whomever He pleases (John 3:8).
 

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Do you agree then that someone who claims faith and does not feel the need to repent of their sins does not have a saving faith?
 

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2 Corinthians chapter 7 talks about the quality of sorrow that describes the repentance one must have for saving faith. Jesus' first words of His earthly ministry were to repent. The beatitudes describe the condition of one who has genuine belief:

3 "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

4 "Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.

5 "Blessed are the gentle, for they shall inherit the earth.

6 "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.
"poor in spirit" - the Greek their indicates spiritual bankruptcy. You are convicted of your sin.
"mourn" - indicates Godly sorrow (repentance).
"meek" - indicates submission to Christ's Lordship.
"hunger and thirst for righteousness" - indicates recognition of the truth of the gospel message the need for the Saviour. This is a big change from man's natural state:

10as it is written,
"(S)THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;
11THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS,
THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;
Rom 3:10-11

Most definitely repentance is required for salvation!
 

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2 Corinthians chapter 7 talks about the quality of sorrow that describes the repentance one must have for saving faith. Jesus' first words of His earthly ministry were to repent. The beatitudes describe the condition of one who has genuine belief:



"poor in spirit" - the Greek their indicates spiritual bankruptcy. You are convicted of your sin.
"mourn" - indicates Godly sorrow (repentance).
"meek" - indicates submission to Christ's Lordship.
"hunger and thirst for righteousness" - indicates recognition of the truth of the gospel message the need for the Saviour. This is a big change from man's natural state:

Rom 3:10-11

Most definitely repentance is required for salvation!
Perfect biblical answer!

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mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; mso-default-props:yes; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} .MsoPapDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; margin-bottom:10.0pt; line-height:115%;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0in; mso-para-margin-right:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0in; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} </style> <![endif]--> Rom 10:9 because, if you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. <o></o>
Rom 10:10 For man believes with his heart and so is justified, and he confesses with his lips and so is saved. <o></o>
Rom 10:11 The scripture says, "No one who believes in him will be put to shame."



A confession of faith without true belief in your heart does not lead to salvation. A true belief obeys and endures to the end.
<o></o>
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
It's clear you guys don't have a grasp of grace. It's a gift of God not of works lest any man should boast. Only believe! Baptism is simple a public display of that belief. It has nothing to do with your eternal life.
 

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I would also ask that person if they love Jesus. The first commandment and greatest commandment is that we love God with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength (Mat 22:37-38). Jesus tells us that if we have His commandments and keep them (John 14:21), that is how we love Him. Also, "If you love Me, keep my commandments (John 14:15)

Jesus commands us to repent. If you won't, you don't love Jesus. (1 John 5:1)
 

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It's clear you guys don't have a grasp of grace. It's a gift of God not of works lest any man should boast. Only believe! Baptism is simple a public display of that belief. It has nothing to do with your eternal life.
Did you read my post?? I quoted Eph 2:8-9 twice. The baptism I describe is by the Holy Spirit, not of water. Holy Spirit baptism is what happens at conversion and only happens once. Water baptism is part of our public confession and identification of Jesus Lordship. It has nothing to do with salvation.
 

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It's clear you guys don't have a grasp of grace. It's a gift of God not of works lest any man should boast. Only believe! Baptism is simple a public display of that belief. It has nothing to do with your eternal life.
Baptism is not a mere public display. It is a Command of Christ.

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mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0in; mso-para-margin-right:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0in; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} </style> <![endif]--> Mat 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, <o></o>
Mat 28:20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age." <o></o>
 

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We are nothing. To be blunt, and crass, we are less that a pimple on someone's butt.

God doesn't owe us anything, nor can we earn our salvation. That being said, we are required to be obedient and do what Christ commands. If our faith does not lead us into obedience it is a false faith, a hopeless faith. A false faith does not come from the Holy Spirit.

Grace is a gift we don't deserve, yet God in His mercy has decided to give us a gift of salvation. If He chooses to say that we have to confess with our lips as well as believe does that make it anything less than Grace? We still can't earn it. We still don't deserve it.
 

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You can have the Holy Ghost everyday of your life and go to ****.
Mat 7:21 "Not every one who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?'
Mat 7:23 And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.'


These sound like people who have publicly proclaimed their faith in Christ yet have not believed in their hearts.

Even though they prophesied and cast out demons they did not do the will of God. The will of God is to obey Jesus.
 

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I haven't heard anything that disagrees with Scripture yet. "simple" was a poor choice on my part. I was comparing the amazing work of the Holy Spirit in regeneration with our humble act of obedience.

Yes someone can be influenced by the Holy Spirit and still be unsaved. Saul the King was an example, I think. I can't think of a New Testament example though.

Did I stumble into an old argument?

308shtr, amen to your last post!

The regeneration of the Holy Spirit is the only baptism that saves:

John the baptist said:
“"As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.” (Mt 3:11 NAS95)
That speaks of two baptisms that Jesus will do; fire and of the Holy Spirit. Fire is eternal ****ation, and the Holy Spirit baptizes to eternal salvation. Jesus does the doing. It is the gift of God. John's baptism was of water. The baptism we do points to the Holy Spirit baptism as a symbol. This is not to be confused with the filling of the Spirit which is the renewing of our minds by the words of the Spirit, the word of God.
 

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Yes 308, the sheep and the goats. Depart from me, I never knew you. When you think of that in terms of God's calling, it gets very clear. This knowing is the relationship kind gnosko (sp?) He knew his sheep before the world began and they know His voice.
 

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You can have the Holy Ghost everyday of your life and go to ****.

Don't think so. There is a definite difference between goodness and the Holy Spirit.
Any one can be good but only those whom have truly and completely accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior will be saved. Once that occurs the Holy Spirit is breathed into the new believer and they are born again through the baptism of the Holy Spirit. The act of baptism is a command of obedience unto the Lord. It is not through our actions but through the grace and mercy of the Most High.

You guys are super! Great discussion.
Thank you,
Greg
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Amen Greg, it is about time that the forum has picked up. A very interesting discussion just a observation from a tongue talking pentecostal.

Blessings,
 

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Potter & clay. Old & new. Before & after.

All scripture proclaims that we must be covered by blood. From Adam & Eve not covering their sin appropriately and God sacrificing an animal to the Covenant with Abraham to Christ's death, burial, and ressurrection.

Repent means to turn from your sin and give it up. That can only be done by the power of the blood of Christ coupled with the Holy Spirit endwelling.

Filled to overflowing means that we are not just splashing out at the top of our newly created vessel, but that we are from our very core eminating the love that is available after a renewing of our spirit from the Comforter, the One that was promised by Jesus.

Even our Saviour said that he did nothing but what the Father told Him to do. He promised that we would never be alone. That does not mean that all people have the Holy Spirit endwelling, but that those that have been truly recreated when claiming the victory over sin that Jesus paid for.

1st John states that the sacrifice of Jesus is the propiation for our sin. There is no way that I can renew myself. That was done by God's perfect sacrifice. I guess that we need to remember that a gift is a gift even if it is ignored, let to rot, or used.

The old hymn "Jesus Paid it All" says it perfectly. All to Him I owe, sin has left a crimson stain and He washed it white as snow.

Praise God that He is capable and willing to love me personally enough to write my name in the Lamb's Book of Life.

You guys have heard me say it before, but I will give my testimony again.

When I was 11 I had a problem that I explained to my mom as a heartache. Mom was prepared to guide me through the Roman Road plan of salvation. That night, beside my parents bed, I nealt and offered my life to Jesus.

Because I repented and gave up on my will, Jesus sacrifice on Calvary covered the door post of my heart so that death had no dominion in my life. Today I understand more everyday that I was lost, that Jesus death burial and resurrection miraculously gave me power over sin. Because of His fulfillment of the covenant, I now have the Holy Spirit residing in me.

Like the discussion with Nicodemus, I have been reborn of water and of blood. We can't understand it, it is like the wind. We only have to faithfully accept that Jesus said it and it is so.
 

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James 2:19 You believe that there is one God; you do well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Belief is simply not enough.

Luke 6:46 And why call you me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

We must follow the commandments of Christ. He loved us enough to die for us.

Great discussion folks! Praise God!
 
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