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Discussion Starter #1
Went shooting yesterday and for the second time with this batch of reloads had one refuse to fire. 458 Win Mag, 47 gr IMR4895 powder, 405 gr spire point GC from a Saeco mould, Federal mag primer. Fired in fairly new Win model 70. Primer strike looked good, checked all other rounds and found no high primers. Last misfire drove bullet part way into barrel, this time no movement of bullet. Carefully disassembled round and found correct charge inside, powder looked OK no foreign matter in case ( cleaning media ). Punched primer out and separated anvil/cup. Did not look like it had any compound inside. No burn marks from firing.

These are light loads for practice and they have little air space under bullet. Disassembled bolt and cleaned after first misfire. I am a little stumped. The can of powder was recently opened and stored as I always store powder.

Ideas?
 

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Time to contact Federal! Sounds like you've got a bad batch of primers. If so, they will probably have had other complaints about that lot #. IDShooter
 

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Sounds like a bad or contaminted primer. You're assesment of no priming compound sounds like you should do as IDShooter said and contact Federal and give them the details.
 

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Back in the 1970s I had the same thing happen with my Ruger .45 Blackhawk.
The CCI Large Pistol didn't indicate any priming compound after I'd decapped the case. Anvil and cup came apart and were both shiny inside; not a spot of compound.
However, that was the only primer in about 500 (as I recall) that had that problem.
Sometimes --- very rarely --- a fluke gets through the inspection line.
I've never experienced that again, nearly 100,000 primers and 30-plus years down the road.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
This is the only time I have ever experienced this. Checked a sample of the three hundred left of the 1k box and they look fine. Will probably just shoot them up and get more.
 

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Going to post this only becasue the rifle is a .458WM. That is one of the few round where the belt actually has a real use, but it may also be a problem.
It isn't uncommon to find variation in the belt...which equates to variation in heasdspace. Not enough to really matter, but given a slightly dirty chamber (and belt recess) combined with a slightly short belt, and can get a missfire....the fouling caught in the chamber's belt recess acts like a cushion with thin belted brass...with normal brass, it just gives harder chambering.

One more item: resizing what is basically a straight case. IF you practice 1/2 sizing, where the case isn't fully resized, in order to extend cast life, just be sure they chamber fully and all the way into the chamber. Can close the bolt on a case that is minimaly sized, but if it has a smaller than normal belt, the los of power from having the firing pin fully seat the round will rob it of it's power.

Same thing can happen with a primer not set all the way to the base of the primer pocket...the pin hit expends some of it's energy seating the primer.
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Can crush a primer in a bench vice if you go real slow...crush it flat without setting it off. Suddeness of the pin hit is what sets it off. May be good to clean the bolt.
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Bad primers are a choice, it is possible one or two passed quality inspection and are just "duds".
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Never thought of the belt size. All my cases are from the same lot, bought 500 when I got the rifle. I clean very thoroughly, completely disassembled the bolt after the first misfire. Clened the chamber also. The primer strike was deep and normal both times.
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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My dad found a primer once with no anvil, this in a factory load no less. Needless to say it didn't go bang.

Just one of those things that can happen, although rarely.
 

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At one point, all I had to reload with was a tong tool in .45colt. Does a nice job, but actually only neck sizes. After a few reloads, started getting missfires. Primer was dented, just didn't go "bang". A full length sizing cured it. Evidently, the cases were being chambered enough to cylce the Colt SAA, but were not bottomed onto the cylinder. Firing pin strike was hard enough, just that it was spread ut over time (and somewhat reduced in power) by seating the rounds.

May not be your porblem...but it never hurts to have a clean chamber and bolt (and I would dig into that belt recess with a wooden toothpick...of a sharpened chopstick...whatever will allow you to reach it) ans see if you don't come out with a bit of "goop" that has solidified in the base of that recess.
 

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Bigfoot, I am having the same problem with reloading 450marlin for my Encore Pistol. I have tried Win.,Fed., and CCI primers. About 25% will not fire. I have seen the post about the belt not being the same size. Maybe this is the problem. The brass is Hornady. I have replaced the firing pin. No good. I have taken extra care when seating the primers. No good. Help!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #12
One of the earlier posts said something about IMR 4895 being hard to ignite with less than full loading density, i.e. air space in the cartridge. That is the powder I am using and these are light loads. I have never had a problem with this before and still doubt it in this case but... ?
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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Tried seating a few bullets so they just barely contact the rifling when the breech is closed? This might help you figure out if headspace is a problem.
 

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Bigfoot, I'm using H4198 (52gr.). I can't see where the amount of powder would matter? If the primer doesn't fire then the powder can't burn. My Primers that don't fire have the same indent as the ones that do fire. It's got me stumped. Somebody out there must know what the problem is. I hope.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
The two misfires I have experienced had the normal indentation on the primer. I am absolutely sure it is not a cleaning, firing pin, or headspace problem. All the evidence points to a primer without the proper compound in it.
 

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Bigfoot,
The only thing that I can think of, outside a defective primer, is that you made a mistake on a few of your casings. When adjusting the dies for a straight walled belted magnum case, it is possible to push the belt "back" if the die is adjusted incorrectly. I'm not saying you did, I'm not saying you didnt'. If this where to happen it could cause the problem you're having with the primer being too far away from the breechface/bolthead. I'm guessing you've got a primer problem, but the above scanario could cause misfires as well.

Did it happen twice with the same casing both times?
 

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primer failure

Bigfoot,
About a year ago,I had a similar problem with a new batch of primers.I posted this on several Websites.It was my first look at the then,"new look" Winchester primers.
All togethe,I had 4 or 5 failures,and all in one,or at most,2 boxes in the carton of 1000.
When you consider the gazillions of primers made by each Company,somebody just has to get a few bad ones,once in awhile.
If you get more then 5 failures,please keep us posted.
Frank
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Fired another 25 of the lot I loaded and had no problem. It is actually an easy shooting accurate load. The sizing die does not contact the belt although that was another I had never considered.
 

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I have had the same thing happen with CCI primers in my BFR. If I load with winchester they work all the time. Once in a while with the CCI's they fail to fire. I have to shoot them a second time and then they fire. I have not had any problems with the CCI's in any other load but the BFR. Weird.
 

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Zep,
The CCI's, in the past at least, are the primers with the hardest cup material. I have several revolvers with spring kits that will not fire them reliably if at all. The Wichesters where also a little iffy before the new style came out. Your BFR probably has a low power hammer spring in it to help with the action of the BEAST. I've been using primarily Federal primers for about 12 years and nver had a problem, but as of the last few have also been using the new Winchesters with no problem.
 
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