Shooters Forum banner

1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
:cool:Hello boys and girls from here in Texas. Having some issue with WLR primers in my revolver. Using a Ram Prime which I have used for years in single shot handgun, and all of my rifles and never had any issues with misfires until recently. Could be something else but want to get some opinions to help get me going in the right direction.

Shooting a 460 S&W. Darn thing shoots great with factory Hornady loads. 200gn at 2200 fps. Whipped up a recipe straight out the Hornady handbook with some 240 gn HP and used WLR primers. Guess what? Had a few that did not fire and some that fired the second time. Small indent and primer did not initiate. Went back to the factory and worked great.

Ok with that said I was very careful not to seat the primer to deep if you can do such a thing. Did not help.

Advice needed or I am just relegated to shooting factory and that's OK. But I would like to experiment with different loads as all of us do from time to time.

Tribal knowledge welcome......

Had a couple of opinions that the primer was not set deep enough or the trigger spring might be weak. But it fires factory Hornadys like a clockwork no issues. Strange...then again maybe not. cool:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
703 Posts
:cool:Hello boys and girls from here in Texas. Having some issue with WLR primers in my revolver. Using a Ram Prime which I have used for years in single shot handgun, and all of my rifles and never had any issues with misfires until recently. Could be something else but want to get some opinions to help get me going in the right direction.

Shooting a 460 S&W. Darn thing shoots great with factory Hornady loads. 200gn at 2200 fps. Whipped up a recipe straight out the Hornady handbook with some 240 gn HP and used WLR primers. Guess what? Had a few that did not fire and some that fired the second time. Small indent and primer did not initiate. Went back to the factory and worked great.

Ok with that said I was very careful not to seat the primer to deep if you can do such a thing. Did not help.

Advice needed or I am just relegated to shooting factory and that's OK. But I would like to experiment with different loads as all of us do from time to time.

Tribal knowledge welcome......

Had a couple of opinions that the primer was not set deep enough or the trigger spring might be weak. But it fires factory Hornadys like a clockwork no issues. Strange...then again maybe not. cool:
First question, are the primer pockets set up for pistol or rifle primers in this cartridge?
Pistol primer pockets are the same diameter as rifle (large rifle) pockets, but they're shallower by quite a bit. Also, rifle primers have a very heavy/thick cup in comparison.
If the indent is small and light, it could be that all the energy is being lost in the primer strike by the primer being pushed into the cup deeper. The anvil need to be in firm contact with the pocket bottom.

I would suggest switching to a pistol primer, unless the literature in your manual suggests otherwise, and see how your reloads go from there.

Cheers.
:D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
579 Posts
Large rifle primer was not set deep enough , is possible. Win LR primers dont have a good track record. Change brands.

Hodgdon data has listed a Winchester LRM, (magnum)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,265 Posts
Hey there Texas Plainsman,

As soon as you said some were firing on the second attempt the problem is obvious, they are not seated all the way.

The anvil must be making contact with the bottom of the pocket for reliable ignition. I've been seating primers with a ram prime unit for decades, and they are probably about the easiest system to get primers consistently seated properly. Adjust it so you can feel a little bit of cam over, you need a little bit of preload against the anvil.

SMOA
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
653 Posts
If you are sure the primers are properly seated two things come to mind. The first is that those primers are harder than the factory primers. Some primers are harder and require a harder strike to operate. Military primers come to mind as an example. The next thing is a weak spring. In either case harder primer or weak spring the issue is the same, the spring needs replacing it is just showing up sporadically because the factory primers are soft.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Thanks for all the feedback. I am going to try the primer seating first then work from there. Will update. May just test fire primers before I go whole hog on more loads.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
989 Posts
MagnumManiac brings up a good question. The difference in height between large pistol and large rifle primers is about .008". If the pockets are designed for rifle primers then the pistol primers would have to be seated .008" deeper. Perhaps that is enough to cause FTF. And as submoa mention, a second strike that sets off the primer is indicative of "shallow seating"....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Been using the WLR as spec'd by Hornady in their case. Loaded up a few and mad sure the primer was seated well. When the rain slows will keep y'all posted. Hopefully this will do the trick.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
83 Posts
:cool:Hello boys and girls from here in Texas. Having some issue with WLR primers in my revolver. Using a Ram Prime which I have used for years in single shot handgun, and all of my rifles and never had any issues with misfires until recently. Could be something else but want to get some opinions to help get me going in the right direction.

Shooting a 460 S&W. Darn thing shoots great with factory Hornady loads. 200gn at 2200 fps. Whipped up a recipe straight out the Hornady handbook with some 240 gn HP and used WLR primers. Guess what? Had a few that did not fire and some that fired the second time. Small indent and primer did not initiate. Went back to the factory and worked great.

Ok with that said I was very careful not to seat the primer to deep if you can do such a thing. Did not help.

Advice needed or I am just relegated to shooting factory and that's OK. But I would like to experiment with different loads as all of us do from time to time.

Tribal knowledge welcome......

Had a couple of opinions that the primer was not set deep enough or the trigger spring might be weak. But it fires factory Hornadys like a clockwork no issues. Strange...then again maybe not. cool:
I doubt it's the trigger spring. Some cases accept handgun primers, the newer ones take rifle primers. It's most likely a primer issue, try different ones making sure you have the right size for the cases you are using.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
577 Posts
The proper primer seating depth is all the way to the bottom of the pocket.
Otherwise the first strike usually seats it deeper without setting it off, on the second attempt the round will usually fire , that's because the primer is now fully seated.
Gary
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
101 Posts
First question, are the primer pockets set up for pistol or rifle primers in this cartridge?
Pistol primer pockets are the same diameter as rifle (large rifle) pockets, but they're shallower by quite a bit. Also, rifle primers have a very heavy/thick cup in comparison.
If the indent is small and light, it could be that all the energy is being lost in the primer strike by the primer being pushed into the cup deeper. The anvil need to be in firm contact with the pocket bottom.

I would suggest switching to a pistol primer, unless the literature in your manual suggests otherwise, and see how your reloads go from there.

Cheers.
:D
Hornady reload manual calls for WLR primer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Good news. It was the primer seating issue. Thanks to all for the feedback.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
245 Posts
Definitely not seated deep enough AND WLR primers seem to be significantly harder than say Federal 210's. Recently had similar issues with WLR's in a new Kimber .25-06. I had used the RCBS hand seating system, and found I had about a 5-10% no-fire rate... Later determined the primer anvil was not in contact with the bottom of the primer cup- primers lit reliably in empty cases- (even in a 1911.) Went back to ram priming the WLR's and haven't had any problems since- which is a comfort because during the great primer shortage, I stocked up with 5000, and WLR's are a relatively 'hot' standard primer, and work pretty well with several of the ball powders I tend to favor.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
101 Posts
I have the same problem in my 454 Casull since I went to CCI small rifle match primers. It's happened in my pistol and my rifle. I just assumed the cups were too hard but maybe I need to go back and reseat the primers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,203 Posts
:cool:Hello boys and girls from here in Texas. Having some issue with WLR primers in my revolver. Using a Ram Prime which I have used for years in single shot handgun, and all of my rifles and never had any issues with misfires until recently. Could be something else but want to get some opinions to help get me going in the right direction.

Shooting a 460 S&W. Darn thing shoots great with factory Hornady loads. 200gn at 2200 fps. Whipped up a recipe straight out the Hornady handbook with some 240 gn HP and used WLR primers. Guess what? Had a few that did not fire and some that fired the second time. Small indent and primer did not initiate. Went back to the factory and worked great.

Ok with that said I was very careful not to seat the primer to deep if you can do such a thing. Did not help.

Advice needed or I am just relegated to shooting factory and that's OK. But I would like to experiment with different loads as all of us do from time to time.

Tribal knowledge welcome......

Had a couple of opinions that the primer was not set deep enough or the trigger spring might be weak. But it fires factory Hornadys like a clockwork no issues. Strange...then again maybe not. cool:
Cups on the Winchesters are harder than a lot of primers. That's the usual problem with not firing. You shouldn't be using WLR primers for a pistol and if you still have the problem after going WLPs, you firing pin spring is a bit weak in its strike. If you don't want to change springs, change primers.

Never had a problem with Win primers in any firearm I've tried them in.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Well thought I had it figured out. Not so. At the gunsmith now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
543 Posts
You shouldn't be using WLR primers for a pistol and if you still have the problem after going WLPs, you firing pin spring is a bit weak in its strike. If you don't want to change springs, change primers.

Never had a problem with Win primers in any firearm I've tried them in.
460 S&W calls for Rifle Primers as do some other new pistol rounds that operate at rifle pressures such as .454 Casull.

I've rarely had any large primers fail to ignite when seated with a ram prime. I used to get them occasionally when I seated them with the press, and they seemed more common with a couple brass types. If primers are seated deep enough, then Id try different primers -Federal are supposed to detonate easier. Cant imagine a trigger spring problem UNLESS you have has trigger work, or installed a lighter spring.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,203 Posts
460 S&W calls for Rifle Primers as do some other new pistol rounds that operate at rifle pressures such as .454 Casull.

Thanks Tim, didn't know that. I can remember years ago when the Casull came out, Mickey Fowler had 2 or 3 of them and was working up a handload for hunting in Africa with the Casull. I was wise enough not to try them with that ammo! I don't like extracting barrels from my forehead. :rolleyes:

I've rarely had any large primers fail to ignite when seated with a ram prime. I used to get them occasionally when I seated them with the press, and they seemed more common with a couple brass types. If primers are seated deep enough, then Id try different primers -Federal are supposed to detonate easier. Cant imagine a trigger spring problem UNLESS you have has trigger work, or installed a lighter spring.
I've seated primers with a whole lot of tools and presses, trick is with pistol rounds, I just let my Star Seat them. Rifles, that's a whole different issue. Trick is with Winchesters, need that firing pin strike to get them to go consistently. I honestly have never had a problem, but for trigger jobs you won't get me lightening the springs on a wheelgun and a lot of people do.... last one I had to fix was a friend's and I just swapped out springs to bring it back to spec and cleaned up the rest of the mess.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
293 Posts
MiklD mentions it, but the thickness of large rifle and pistol primers is different: Large Rifle: 0.1230" Large Pistol 0.1150". I didn't know this as a young reloader, and was made aware of it when I got a primer pocket uniforming tool, and it cautioned about adjusting the carbide cutter to the correct depth.
It would be easy to make a pistol pocket too deep (rifle depth), and then a primer seated flush with the case head would absorb some of the first hammer blow. Since Texas Plainsman is using rifle primers, and the cases are made for rifle primers, that shouldn't be the problem. Most likely his hammer strike is just enough to fire factory primers and the WLR's are a bit stiff.

The only other thing that comes to mind is if there were a headspace issue. Revolver cartridges headspace on the rim, so if his reloads were a different brand and had a slightly thinner rim, or if the gun was at the upper end of the headspace tolerance . . . (?)

Texas P, be sure and let us know how it works out.
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Top