[Derek1587]

I am contemplating buying a pedersoli Sharps hunter in 45-70. I am wondering if there is a factory ammunition to give me the desired results but if not im going to reload for it but i am curious as to which options would give me accuracy out to 250 to 300 yds appropriate for hunting deer elk and black bear here in washington.

 

[kdub]

Factory ammo for the 45-70 is loaded to be shot in the weakest action still in use. In this case, the Springfield Trapdoor. Velocity and pressure is reduced from that of what you could handload.

The 45-70 has a trajectory akin to that of a marble rolled off the end of a table. Not saying sights couldn't be adjusted for 250 to 300 yds (lots of competition BP shooters do so regularly at matches), but if it were me and hunting elk or bear, I'd try to get a lot closer.

BTW - I've deleted all your other posts on the board regarding this question. We frown heavily on multiple posting. One post is sufficient.

 

[Sandman1]

I believe that Hornady Leverevolution will be your flattest shooting factory round. Still very iffy past 200 yards. K-dub's statement about the marble rolling off the table is a good one. I will save that for future use.

 

[tacklebury]

The leverevolution round is ok for medium game, but from reports, a little light on penetration for Elk, Moose and Grizzly. I have loaded the 325gr. FTX up and find it very accurate. I also have had excellent luck with the Hornady 300 gr. hollowpoint, but at the velocities I'm shooting it I find it very explosive also. My next round of testing for higher velocity loads is going to be using the 350 gr. Interlock Flat Point and round points. I would think that the flat point would be excellent for any game you were going to put it through performing along the lines of big leads. If I get some loaded and shoot something will try to feed back the results.

If you really don't want to reload your own though, I'd probably consider something similar to:
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=376119
Which are reported to be very accurate out of Handi-Rifles, Buffalo Classics and lever guns. Also fairly common and not in the extraordinarily high price range.

 

[Runnin Lead]

With a blade front sight & the ladder sight on the barrel I filed the FS down till I could hit a 50 m chicken with the sight folded down . At the lowest setting with the sight up I was able to hit a 200m chicken.That was with a 405 PB Lyman 457193

 

[Derek1587]

Thanks for the feedback guys and any additional advice would be most welcome. I realize the 45-70 has a less than desirable trajectory but I've seen accurate shots made out to 300. I will b purchasing a creedmore if necessary. Accuracy out to 200 or 250 should prove adequite. Are the pressures created by the leverevolution rounds safe on the sharps? And is there any reason to favour bp over smokeless as far as performance?

 

[Runnin Lead]

I will also add that the Pedersoli has a 1-18 twist for long heavy bullets.
The trapdoor had around a 1-22 twist .
Pushing a light bullet in the fast twist barrel if you push it too hard it won't stay on a 4' X 4' sheet of plywood.
With the Lyman 457193 went back down to around 27 gr 5744 & shoots great.
I have never shot a smokeless round beyond 200,the BP loads at distance are quite accurate with the 500 gr + bullets.

 

[stinky]

I don't really see how a 325 grain bullet could lack penetration.

But here is what Horandy has on it. They claim a 4" drop at 200 yards.
http://www.hornady.com/store/45-70-Government-325-gr-FTX-LEVERevolution/

Buffalo Bore loads H-O-T stuff for your gun, and they are proud of it. They have five dif loads, starting at 300, going up to 500 grains.
http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=35

You could pretty much/almost get started reloading for the cost of a box of bullets.

 

[Derek1587]

According to hornadys ballistics calculater wit a 150 yd zero the LEVERevolution rounds should drop 4 inches at 200 yds and only 30 at 300 that should be more than sufficient. But I'm very curios as to the performance of black powder loads and I will experiment handloading them as well as smokeless.

 

[al_sway]

I don't really see how a 325 grain bullet could lack penetration.

This 325 grain bullet, if I understand correctly, is an expanding bullet. Since 325 grains is fairly short for a .45 cal bullet, once it starts to expand it would start to look more like a ball than a long bullet, and penetration would be reduced compared to a cast lead bullet that would not deform as much.

 

[baddad457]

Thanks for the feedback guys and any additional advice would be most welcome. I realize the 45-70 has a less than desirable trajectory but I've seen accurate shots made out to 300. I will b purchasing a creedmore if necessary. Accuracy out to 200 or 250 should prove adequite. Are the pressures created by the leverevolution rounds safe on the sharps? And is there any reason to favour bp over smokeless as far as performance?

I have a 32" Pedersoli Sharps equipped with a Vernier sight and hooded front sight with a cross hair insert. It completely relaibly accurate to 200-300 yards using hand loaded 410 GR RCBS FNGC pushed by 50 grains W-W 748 (300 yards) At 200 yards the same sight setting is dead on with a 500 gr pushed by 44 grains IMR4895 (or the same weight of AA2495) . A gas check or some other means must be used in the longer barrels to protect the bullet base, I seat one under my plain base bullets for the Sharps.

 

[Derek1587]

thanks for the input. Has anybody used the LEVERevolution ammo on larger game? Hornady has accounts of several people using it on everything from elk to buffalo an shots out to 300. But I'm aware that the company can post anything and I've no way of knowing whether the shots wer really made I'd hate to use the ammunition if it won't kill cleanly on elk or black bear I am a big fan of a clean kill.

 

[Tnhunter]

thanks for the input. Has anybody used the LEVERevolution ammo on larger game? Hornady has accounts of several people using it on everything from elk to buffalo an shots out to 300. But I'm aware that the company can post anything and I've no way of knowing whether the shots wer really made I'd hate to use the ammunition if it won't kill cleanly on elk or black bear I am a big fan of a clean kill.

If you take a gander over at the M.O. forums (Marlin Owners) you will find a section on bullet tests. There are also several personal accounts on the 45-70 325 gr FTX bullet being used very successfully on all types of big game. Even an account with pictures of a recovered bullet used on a large Alaska black bear at under ten yards. That bullet shows a perfect mushroom. Remember that the exact same bullet is loaded in the .450 LE load and at a good bit higher velocity. The bullet is not (IMHO) nearly as fragile as some say.

 

[purpledragon]

Yes,I agree with Tnhunter,great bullet and a good performer..............

 

[Derek1587]

thanks for the input guys. I think I'm gonna go with the LE ammo n see how it does I've been checkin out reloadin options an found the bullets to handload the LE but can't seem to find were to get te powder which I heard is the secret to the accuracy and range of hornadys round while maintainin safe pressures. Does anyone know if it's available? Or if there is an alternative to gettin similar results. I'm not nearly as concerned wit velocity as I am with range accuracy and killability.

 

[Tnhunter]

You may want to initially simply buy a couple boxes of the LE loads for two reasons. First, to see if that bullet shoots well in your #1. (it shoots very well in both my Ruger #1/45-70 and my Marlin 1895) and second, and just as important, the brass used in the LE 325gr load is slightly shorter than typical 45-70 brass to keep Cartridge OAL short enough for function in the 1895. (This may not be a problem in your Ruger, however) You should be able to find an additional 150-200 FPS with handloaded FTX/325gr bullets over the factory load as that's what the .450 FTX loads will do.

 

[baddad457]

thanks for the input. Has anybody used the LEVERevolution ammo on larger game? Hornady has accounts of several people using it on everything from elk to buffalo an shots out to 300. But I'm aware that the company can post anything and I've no way of knowing whether the shots wer really made I'd hate to use the ammunition if it won't kill cleanly on elk or black bear I am a big fan of a clean kill.

If you use 400-500 grain lead bullets, clean kills are no problem at the ranges you asked about. Any of them will drive clean thru a buffalo at 200-300 yards.

 

[onesonek]

About bullet selection,,,What if the angle is not as one wished for a broadside? I question the use of a light weight 325 gr. (light for caliber) with a sectional density of just over .221. That's akin to using a 30 cal, 150 gr.,,I don't see or hear of that being used in many elk camps. I wouldn't go below 400 gr and prefer 420-425's myself. I just don't know that a 325 or a 350 would make it through the front shoulder if need be. That weight cast hard, maybe?
I would opt for the Remington 405 gr. FP load. A good tough bullet, and with a .458 FP, one really don't need much expansion.
As far as range goes, I would set up a 8-9" gong, backing up untill I can longer put 3 consecutive rounds on it,, and routinely. That leaving the prior distance as my max range. That method, leaves some margin for error, or if murphy shows at the wrong moment.

Dave