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Discussion Starter #1
I was allways taught in church that the cross was made from the Dogwood tree, After Christ's cruxificion, the Dogwood tree was cursed, so that it would grow so twisted and bent, that it could never be used for a cross again.
However I can't find any text in the bible to confirm this.
The only tre I can find that was cursed was the fig tree that did not bear fruit, so it was cursed, then died and withered away.
Can someone help me out with this one. Book and verse would help greatly. Otherwise I will have to reconsider many biblical "facts" I was always taught.

Thanks,
John
 

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John,

I don't find any reference to the dogwood tree, or the curse you mention. I've looked through about every conceivable translation and done word, phrase and subject searches and come up wanting. (good resource for online bible versions with search function http://www.crosswalk.com)

Actually, your reference to the curse on the dogwood tree is the first I've ever heard of such. Sorry, I can't give any light on your question.... although I've tried.

Perhaps someone else has the answer.

God Bless,
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Marshall, thanks for getting back with me.
I was raised in a Southern Missionary Baptist Church.
I was always taught this story of the Dogwood tree, the center of the flower pod (red) represented the spike holes in Christ's hands, and the brown streaks on the leaves represented the blood running from our Lord's hands.
I guess this has been a very entertaining story.
My dad is an ordained Baptist minister, he has preached this sermon many times,now it looks like he was told the same "story" from childhood, he looked through his concordance books (bibles) and other manuals trying to find the bottom of this.
The website will be very helpful, thank you for this one.
Also, thank you for taking the time from your busy schedule to look for this.
Does anyone know what tree the cross was actually made from?

Thanks again,
John
 

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John,

Two of our elk hunting partners here in the Panhandle of Idaho are Missionary Baptist preachers. (We have great fun at camp with usually four different ministers and the rest of us ranging from Evangelical/Penticostle, Southern Baptist, Catholic, and Methodist all thrown together for a week or ten days! Some REALLY interesting campfire discussions!)

I'll ask them concerning the story you relate.... see if they have any knowlege of this entertaining story as you call it.

More when I find something out!

God Bless
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Marshall, Now that would have to be a campfire conversation! I was raised Baptist, but can no longer go along with it, I have joined the Methodist church, it seems to suit me better. I still have a problem with organized religions, probably always will. I seem to be questioning things more and more. I am not sure if this is good or bad.
My faith in God is only getting stronger and stronger.
If I told why, I would either be called a fanatic, or just plain dumb. but i can handle that :D
I know what a difference the Lord has made for me through prayer, no matter what "stories" I have learned, I know this to be the truth.

John
 

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Indeed!

The Scriptures instruct us not to forsake the assembling ourselves with other believers. However, there is a big difference between a relationship with our Lord and the faith required to do so, and with "organized religion".

Faith is instituted and given by God, religion is an institution of traditions by man. Our Lord had very strong words regarding traditions of men, and the idle words that accompany such.

Dig deep into His Word, and you'll grow, as we all do. So then, faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. (Romans 10:17)

Keep looking up! God Bless,
 

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Marshall, chuckling over hunting group

I've hunted with similar groups over the years, mostly variations of fundimentalist churches. makes for some long, heated and interesting discussions after supper.
What you guys need to add to the mix is a heathen. That way when the other guys get a bit more then intense they can focus on the heathen.
I'm lucky in that I get an on going religious education almost daily from a group of clergy. I'm get a Rabbi, Catholic Priest, Greek Orthodox Priest, Moslem Imam, the preacher from the Baptist Church across the street, a Morman (elder)?, a Methodist or Episcopalian or Presbertarian? from around the corner. It's interesting watching these guys interact. If there's time I'll put on the coffee, ask some questions and listen.
The head preacher (Jimmy) at the Baptist church across the street is retiring this fall. I've been trying to convince Jimmy that he needs to open up an out reach chapel at the shooting range. Jimmy could hold sevices between relays at the matches, sort of a 'Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition' service. Jimmy and the rest of us wouldn't miss church and we'd all get to shoot in the matches.
Jim
 

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Jim,

What you mention is a real frustration for me. Virtially all of the organized shooting sports in our region meet, and shoot on Sunday. Sunday morning to be exact. It wouldn't be too bad if they met and shot in the afternoon, but the matches are over and powder-burning over by the time I get out of church.

I wish the shooting fraternity would change their days of competition to Saturdays so more of us could and would participate.

Oh well, there I go again. If they moved the shooting matches to Saturday, then we'd supset the Saturday Sabboth keepers as well. :p Hmmm.... a range chapel.... haven't thought about that one!

God Bless
 

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Marshall
I've only had one day a week off, for the past thirty years, Sunday. I get my shooting, shopping, house work, yard work, etc. done on that day.
To get my spiritual needs taken care of I do at least one and sometimes three spiritual meetings per week. Most of them are discussion and prayer, but classes and prayer, and meditation and prayer. Plus that gang of clergy I have the privilidge chatting with every week.
I sort of figure we all are trying to speak to the same guy and get to the same place, any of the clergy knows one heck of a lot more then I.
Marshall, you take care.
Jim
 

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The word of God is silent as concerning the type of wood used to make the cross. Therefore, it is of no importance to the believer.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
TPM, I agree the type of tree has no real importance, however, what is important is this, since finding out the "dogwood tree" was not based in fact, and I have taken it as fact for all my life, I am now having to consider how much more I have beleived is not the truth.
If it were related as a feel good story that would have been one thing, but to teach something as fact, and it is not. It really makes me wonder what else is not right. That is the problem. :( Lots of reading and thinking to do!

John
 

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Understood. Well, one thing I was taught from a youth was that you cannot love someone else if you don't first love yourself. Of course, this is nowhere to be found in scripture and is completely untrue. This is why we must strictly adhere to the word of God and test everything by it.

Hebrews 5:14 - But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
 

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Halfbreed: Read the Bible for yourself and you can find out about these things for your self! I don't think that the Bible says what kind of wood the cross is made from. Stay safe and God Bless!
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Wallace, you are right, as is every one else here. Only I can really discern the truth for myself, with the Lords guidance.
My wife and I have a really good bible study group to study with. A really good Sunday School teacher, she was also my Jr. high school science teacher. I just wished class then was as interesting as Sunday School is.
what is really aggrivating is this, a poor spiritual knowledge foundation.

Just the facts mam, just the facts. Detective Friday

John
 

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halfbreed said:
Marshall, Now that would have to be a campfire conversation! I was raised Baptist, but can no longer go along with it, I have joined the Methodist church, it seems to suit me better. I still have a problem with organized religions, probably always will. I seem to be questioning things more and more. I am not sure if this is good or bad.
My faith in God is only getting stronger and stronger.
If I told why, I would either be called a fanatic, or just plain dumb. but i can handle that :D
I know what a difference the Lord has made for me through prayer, no matter what "stories" I have learned, I know this to be the truth.

John
Halfbreed: I know where you are coming from. I was born and raised catholic but many years ago fell away because of several of their teachings that I could not find reference to in the Bible. After visiting and spending time with other denominations I still felt I was missing something. Although I never consciously fell away from God there were many years that I have not actively sought His Word and Guidance. I too have experienced some things that many would think I were nuts if I talked of them but I do believe these experiences were of God and that he is very much alive and as active today as He was in the Old and New Testaments. Most times we're just not looking. When I am with others and the subject of God comes up I witness my experiences and let the chips fall where they may. I am still in a quantry as to how to have fellowship with other christians which the Bible says is integral in having a relationship with God and to be a part of His body in Christ. Organized religion with its own rules and having to apply and having to be voted into their fold just does'nt seem right but I feel compelled to join with fellow christians and seek God the Father and His Son through the Holy Spirit. Any insight would be helpful. Thanks, Rob
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Rob, Nice to meet you. I can certainly relate with what you are going through. My dad was/still is an ordained Baptist minister, I have seen too many times when he was troubled by the churches, the association, and members of the church.They managed to drive him away for nearly 25 years.That's how/when I came to the opinion if this is what it is like to be a Christian I can do without. He is now a member of a Non-denominational church, and is very happy.
I, Myself however, I fell completely away from God for a long time, I did some stupid things, became involved in some things"clubs" i wish I had never done. However that is the past. If God can forgive me, then in time I can too.
For a long time my wife and I both had a craving, longing, hunger however you want to look at it. That just could not be filled with anything else.
I had a serious back injury, i dealt with the pain through alot of pain medicine, all prescription. 2 surgeries, I was looking for a wheelchair. things were tough.
Finally I went to the Lord in prayer, there were many others praying for me that I knew nothing about, immediatly I could see results, I could stand better, taller, longer. The pain started seriously going away. I have always had a high tolerance for pain, but then it was really going away. One night I had a dream, my wife and I were walking down a dirt road, there was a crowd of people, we walked into the crowd to see what was going on, the crowd parted, and Jesus rubbed my upper left arm and said, No more pain. Even in my dream I could feel the pain just going away. It just faded right out. i have been able to do things I had not been able to do in 6 years. will never be as strong as I use to be. I will never be a towboater again, and I do miss it.
But this could only be explained as the Lord's work!
We live in a small rural community, our church regurarly has between 35-45 people. It feels real, down to earth. It is not a fashion show. We checked out many different churches. But none of them actually felt like home.
I like some of the old traditions, I do not like the screaming bible thumpers, begging you to give your life to the Lord. And all your money. Either way it is for the wrong reason.
We just finally found home, Now it is looking like we will have to leave it so I will be able to find work. sometime within the next year or sooner, this will be hard.
However, I know we will be able to find another church home. As long as you can feel the Lord in the church, you know you are home.
I hope this has helped anyone looking, or waiting to find a church home. It is never too late.

John
 

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As a botanist, among other things, I doubt that dogwoods ever grew in and around the middle east. I could find out for you all, but thats not the point, is it? The symbolism of the story is the important part. Not only that , but "....all things are possible."
RIght?
olyeller
 

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John,
I know where your coming from, about the dogwood tree, I myself have never found any biblical truth, that the legend of the dogwood tree is true, and unless I get bible proof, of legend I won't believe it. But the reason I'm writing you is because, there are many people that teaches things they were raised up on, not knowing that what their teaching on is false. Like the belief of Trinity, the teachings of Trinity are a false doctrine, because I have found from the old testament to the new, that Jesus was God, and is God. But people today and years ago, are using the bible to support their own personal prejudice, they form themself an opinion without knowing the facts. People take what others tell them, without even checking to see if it's true. People don't understand the teachings of the bible, so they just teach what they think it is, not knowing that them teaching lies, that they will be held accountable for it on the day of judgment. And I have found many things that people have told me to be lies, and false doctrine. I guess that's why God has called me to preach, to get the truth out. But my advice to you, is that when someone tells you something have them to give you bible for it, and than go study it out for yourself, you will be amazed of what all God will reveal to you.

Teresa









halfbreed said:
I was allways taught in church that the cross was made from the Dogwood tree, After Christ's cruxificion, the Dogwood tree was cursed, so that it would grow so twisted and bent, that it could never be used for a cross again.
However I can't find any text in the bible to confirm this.
The only tre I can find that was cursed was the fig tree that did not bear fruit, so it was cursed, then died and withered away.
Can someone help me out with this one. Book and verse would help greatly. Otherwise I will have to reconsider many biblical "facts" I was always taught.

Thanks,
John
 

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prophetessteres said:
John,
I know where your coming from, about the dogwood tree, I myself have never found any biblical truth, that the legend of the dogwood tree is true, and unless I get bible proof, of legend I won't believe it. But the reason I'm writing you is because, there are many people that teaches things they were raised up on, not knowing that what their teaching on is false. Like the belief of Trinity, the teachings of Trinity are a false doctrine, because I have found from the old testament to the new, that Jesus was God, and is God. But people today and years ago, are using the bible to support their own personal prejudice, they form themself an opinion without knowing the facts. People take what others tell them, without even checking to see if it's true. People don't understand the teachings of the bible, so they just teach what they think it is, not knowing that them teaching lies, that they will be held accountable for it on the day of judgment. And I have found many things that people have told me to be lies, and false doctrine. I guess that's why God has called me to preach, to get the truth out. But my advice to you, is that when someone tells you something have them to give you bible for it, and than go study it out for yourself, you will be amazed of what all God will reveal to you.

Teresa
Welcome Teresa to shootersforum. We hope and pray that you will not take offense and run away if some of us politely disagree with you over the Trinity. I look forward to some thoughtful discussions with you over this issue.

Your's in Christ's love

Willis
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Hello everyone,
First i want to thank everyone who has written back to me both through the forum and those that have gotten back with me through p.m.'s.
This "legend" of the dogwood tree, seems to be just that!
I personally can not find anything in chapter or verse, nor has anyone else been able to show me anything.
The really hurtful part is, this was taught with so much emphasis as the biblical truth, Several years ago, our small country church, needed a small childrens sunday school teacher, my wife and I were enlisted to teach this class, we told everyone up front we needed to learn the bible before we could teach it. And we needed alot of help as well.
To make a long story short, we never got the help we needed, and we soon found ourselves not going to church, sometimes months on end, then finally quitting alltogether.
Now we are back in church, like we know we should be. Many things have changed in our life for the better. We are still not able to teach, but at least we are in a learning atmosphere.
My big problem is that now I question everything a little too much. I have faith in the LORD, but that is about all.
Not too long ago, I was told by a particular preacher that I was doomed and going to ****, because I was not reading the King James Bible, When I asked him what bible the King James was translated from, he had no answer for this.
I am not teeter tottering on the issue of the LORD, But I have reservations on many of the churches themselves, when some of their teachings can't be found by book and verse.

John
 
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