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Discussion Starter #1
HI GUYS,

Seeing that : I hate my new Ruger M-77 in .223 Rem; I dislike the Ruger company as much as the rifle; I did something stupid that resulted in my jamming a bore brush and steel cleaning rod in the barrel; I am an admirer of the 7mm TCU, the .17 remington and the 6mm TCU; have about 2,000 Winchester once-fired .223 brass; have my rifle at a gunsmith now; will probably need a new barrel---------have any of you an idea of how I could inexpensively attain a set of barrels that would easily interchange in my M-77 rifle ?

I feel like cutting the rifle into small sections and sending it to Ruger with a request for them to place the parts in various bodily orrofices where the sun never shines, and just writing up this recent monetary loss to "education".

I currently have six Ruger guns and have had many many more over the last 50 years so am not unaware of the wonderful guns they USED to make, so I don't need any lectures in that regard, but if you can help with my question, I'd appreciate it.

:confused: chuck
 

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The Troll Whisperer (Moderator)
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Hmmmmm......

A conundrum if there ever was one - an inexpensive way to make a swap barrel rifle.

You'd be better off, expense wise, to just buy another rifle in the desired caliber, instead of converting the existing one to a swap barrel configuration.

Sounds like you need to blame cleaning procedures for the obstructed barrel, rather than the firearm itself. No lectures here - been there, done that! I'm pretty careful what and how I run cleaning material down a bore, anymore.

If you insist on swap barrels, the receiver will have to be milled to either have interrupted threads with a set pin or thru-bolt to pin the matching threads or smooth shaft on the barrel shank. Then, there's the question of receiver length, bolt face diameter and magazine compatibility. Head spacing will be a major consideration.
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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Impractical (and expensive) at best. I'd just rebarrel.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Hi kdub,

Yep, a conumdrum is close to the situation's description alright !

Thanks for the tip. This is the first time I ever needed a new barrel so I've never been there or done that.

Read my thread again and you'll see that I took full blame for the obstructed barrel. However, the rifle itself was found to have steel splinters in both bore and chamber. Ain't those new $400 bore scopes wonderful ? I did NOT put them there----Ruger did !

I was angry and when angry I beat heck out of things or people, if possible. I'm a 69 year old kid. Good advice on the cleaning tip. This is the first rifle that I've ever ( since my Army days) that I've used a metal object in my bores. It'll also be my last. Back to chemicals for this guy !

I figured on that stuff about barrel swaps, but still have not the slightest idea on the cost. No matter, however, I'm so broke it is pathetic. Sorry I bothered you. Thank you for trying to help me. Hope you do it again some time.

:) chuck
 

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CS,
The only cost effective switch barrel I'm familiar with is the TC Contender and/or Encore, neither of which will remedy your current situation. If you've got a brother in law you don't like, you could always sell the rifle to him.

Just out of curiousity, what EXACTLY did you do to the barrel?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
!

:) Hi kcih,

I've got a few of TC products and love them very much. Depending upon how much damage will be caused by the gunsmith who has the gun, I shall rebarrel with a 7mm TCU and use it for 100 and 200 yard hole punching only---or---just have the barrel polished---whichever.

As many times as I've admitted my stupidity, you must think that I LIKE to do those admissions----but I really don't. I do them in hopes someone else might be able to prevent my latest screwup. So----here goes---again !

I was irritated that machine errors at the time of manufacture, and I thought if I used bore brushes, chemicals, Chore Girls pads and the like, that perhaps the slivers, or splinters or whatever they are called---would be eliminated. Working from the breech end, the brush got stuck somehow, someway. flooding the bore on both ends with WD-40 and other slippery agents, I tapped gently at first and increased pressure. Then the rod got stuck inside also. So I used another stainless steel rod from the muzzle and IT GOT STUCK. ! I put the gun in one of my basement gun cabinets for a couple of months waiting for my anger to dwindle away. I took it to a gunsmith last week.

:) dummy chuckie
 

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CS,
The cheapest fix for this, if not the most accurate, would be to have the rifle rebored if the gunsmith can't fix it.

Personally, I'd have just done some fire lapping of the bore. Marshall has all the stuff right here to do it, from what I understand, and there is no waiting on that stuff. Did you work through your dealer? or directly with Ruger? If I get something that seems unnaceptable, my dealer will usually go to bat for me with the mfg or distributor. Hindsight, at this point I guess. How bad where the burrs? Would it tear fabric off your cleaning patch?
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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Rebore is a good idea - seems like someone in Washington does this, maybe Cliff LaBounty?
 

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CS,
another thought came to me about this project, it could be a signifigant factor as to you making your rifle a 6mm or 7mm. The 7mm TC/U, as it's chambered in a Contender, is set up to seat the bullets almost all the way out of the case, which probably will not be possible within the constraints of your current box magazine. I realize that you're just punching paper, but the long sleek 7mm bullets may need to be seated so far into the casing that you're going to have the ogive of the bullet in the case neck. I would check into this before doing a conversion because the above mentioned topic would make it unworkable unless very light bullets where used. I wouldn't want a twist any slower than 1 in 10" and faster would probably be better.

The 6mm TCU will work well out of even a AR-15 magazine, provided you limit youself to bullets of 80 grains or less. This might be the better choice if the 7mm TC doesn't seem like a good fit in the short action and magazine. If you went the rebore route, the less work you have to do with the magazine and other things, the more economical the project would be. The 6mm TCU is a very close cousin to the cartridge most all of the benchrest shooters where using before the PPC's and BR's came along also.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Hi kcih,

Thanks for the info on the rebore-job. MikeG also favors this idea so I'll proceed in that direction AFTER we see what the bore looks like after the removal operation. Yee Gods, kcih, thanks to your asking about HOW i screwed up in the first place, I remembered what I had done !! I was working a CHAMBER brush in the chamber, and probably tried to force THAT thing down the bore !! I'll bet that is what happened ! The first steel rod I used was a section-type rod, and I'd bet that when I got ticked and hit it hard with a hammer, that the male screw portion was driven inside the female portion, thus expanding it against the bore wall.

Thanks for reminding about the fire lapping of the bore, kcih.

My dealer sucks. And I bought three Rugers from him in as many months. Heretofore, Ruger has been less than helpful in past conversations and I intensely dislike those home-office types. I'm a poor man, but kissing the fanny of someone I don't respect is not something I'll do for money.

The chamber burr would scratch a case after firing ,and presumably the bore burr would scratch a bullet jacket. I appreciate your helping me very much.

:) chuck
 

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Discussion Starter #11
]
Hi Mike,

I'm unfamiliar with Mr. LaBounty, but I'll begin searching the internet for him.

Thanks, Mike.

:confused: chuck
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Hi kcih,

This info you've given me is all new to me, and is definately most helpful.

How in the heck did a young whipper snapper like you get so darned gun-smart and experienced ?

My dad was born in Omaha, Ne, in 1905, in a sodhouse on a horse ranch far from town. He was quite a guy, but died when I was 7 yrs old in 1941, in Dayton, Oh.. He hated guns as much as his father loved them. Grandpa never left me any in his will, but ------I remember him just as well anyway.

I'll certainly check out the 6mm TCU. It may be the less costly thing to do and should be fine for 80 gr. bullets at 100 and 200 yard paper punching.

Not having shot the 6mm TCU, but having shot a friend's 7mm TCU in a Contender, I was much impressed with it. It would shoot better than I am able to hold and squeeze anyway. While I had already purchased a few barrels for my Contender before shooting the 7mm TCU, I never added it to my collection, but should have. That was back in 1984 in Calif..

:) chuck
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Hi Mike,

I just checked with Cliff LaBounty. Seems like a real "straight-shooter" and nice guy.

You may be interested in a couple of things he had to say:
1. That he will no longer rebore Ruger or Winchester STAINLESS barrels because they are "gummy" ( or too soft ) and he has had only a 70% success rate with them.
2. That he highly reccommends "Pac-Nor Barrels" in Oregon as a source for barrels because they have the latest and greatest computerized machinery.

Hi kcih,

Cliff LaBounty agrees that the 6mm by either 45mm or 47mm length is best for the least expensive conversion.

What would your reccommendations be as to barrel length ? I'm thinking a short bull barrel would be to my liking as I just punch paper with it.

:confused: chuck
 

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CS,
I started reloading at 14, my dad got tired of buying me ammo, so he took me Target and bought me a RCBS RS3 reloding kit and a couple sets of dies. Things kind of took off from there. I had been reloading shotgun shells since I was 12, when I convinced my dad that a Mec Sizemaster would be a good investment, turns out I was right. I took an interest handguns early on, probably had a half dozen of them before I was old enough to buy one, never shot anyone either. My first of many contender barrels was a 7 TC/U, then a XP-100 in 7BR, which is now a .284 Winchester. I also shot a 6.5 TC/U. Started casting bullets about the time I got my first car and first .45, the .45 was a Clark and cost a quite a bit more than my car.:) I've picked up a some knowledge over the years, I've done a bit, and read more, so that's where the gun interest comes from. Enough of that, because I'm only up to 21 so far, and that was before I had a decent job.

As far as the chambering goes, I would stick with the 6x45 if I was on a budget, or even if I wasn't. I believe the 6x47 is based on a 222 Remington Magnum casing, and I don't often see the opportunity to pick those up once fired, commercial, for $30/1000. Good luck with your project. Let us know if you do the rebore, as I'm interested in the results.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Hi kcih,

Thank you for your continued interest in my little project, compared to many of your current and past projects. I shall keep you posted.

After many hours on the computer doing research, I agree that the 6 x 45mm caliber ( or 6mm/.223 samo samo) would be the best rebore, but reboring the Ruger stainless is out of the question because of the soft, cheap stainless they use in their barrels.( Also, Winchester falls into this catagory.)

Research also has discouraged me due to a lack of die that I can afford without buying pure junk. So-----it looks like I'm limited to staying with the .223 Rem. caliber, but will buy a Pac-Nor barrel in a quality stainless steel. I feel this will be a loser project and would be better to just throw the Ruger in the city dump where it really belongs. I have no confidence in it at all and feel like every nickle put into it is wasted money.

Years ago when I made good money, I had a custom .257 Roberts made for me. It still shoots 1 moa for me in my now-deteriorated condition. I've been saving it for my kids, but none want it. So I may as well enjoy it while I still can and throw that crappy Ruger away.

Growing old when you are poor is definately not much fun, but better than being dead. I'm lucky to own the fine .257 Roberts, as example.

Your gun history was very interesting. You were so very fortunate to have the opprotunities and the intelligence to capitalize on them. You are a very interesting person with many talents and much knowledge that you are willing to share with others.

God bless you, kcih.

:) Chuck
 

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CS,
sorry I missed the fact that your barrel was stainless! I though you where giving us general info about that. If you keep your eyes open on Ebay, you will find dies for the TCU cartridges for very reasonable prices, no need for the Reddings, which I prefer when I can get them, but I've had good luck with most types I've used.

Any word back from your gunsmith as to if the rifle will be shootable? I don't own a cleaning rod that is more than one piece, and you've given me another reason not to. I think you'll be able to salvage it unless you where using a sledge hammer on the cleaning rod. :)

Another thing that might really save you some cash on this is to call some of the gunshops that do lots of custom barrel work. Most of them keep the barrels they take off as part of the fee for a rebarrel job, and these "take off" barrels can be had for little more than the job of fitting them to the rifle in some instances. These barrels can also occasionally be found on some of the gun/gun auction sites, but most of them will be from 700's.
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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Hick has a good idea, take-off barrels can be surprisingly cheap. Might even find one for your Ruger.

My dad found one from a Rem .22-250 for maybe $30 or so, which he put on a Turk mauser action, even had the writing facing up. Kind of threw you for a loop when you saw the "Remington Arms" script and it's on a 98 Mauser action.

Chuck, the action is worth something even if the barrel is not. Don't toss it in the dump, someone will want it for a project. If you really don't want it, I'd suggest an ad in the "Trading Post" and / or GunsAmerica, AuctionArms, etc.

Too bad your kids aren't interested in the .257. Now that is a sweet hunting rifle. My wife and I have both shot deer with mine, and I've gotten a few hogs as well, and even some prairie dogs.
 

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CS:
New barrels can be had reasonably from E.R. Shaw Co, www.ershawbarrels.com, they use CNC machining. I have two - they work fine. About $300 for a stainless installed. They chamber the 6x47mm cartridge. If you want a swap barrel rifle cheap buy a Savage bolt action. Kits are available that allow you to swap barrels within cartridges of the same head diameter.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Hi kcih,

Thanks, kcih, I'll check the e-bay site daily in hopes of finding some dies.

:) I did WORSE than a sledgehammer. The final act of ignorance and anger was to point the muzzle down, and pound the rod-stump soundly against the cement floor. :( And no, they haven't been able to budge the obstructionS yet. I have four soild stainless rods, so what did I use ? Yep, a sectioned, steel rod and chamber brush from a US Army cleaning kit. SHEEECH !

Thanks, kcih, I hadn't thought of USED barrels, which is certainly preferable to throwing the Bugger Ruger in the city dump. I'll begin an immediate search for one. Maybe someone who reads this would care to donate one to me for a nominal cost ? Are you guys watching ? I'll inquire on other Forums also, but I haven't explored other Forums because I like this one so much-----because of guys like you, kcih.

:( Chuck
 

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:) Hi Mike,

Your dad lucked out, didn't he ? That broadens my hope for a solution even further.

I was in bed this A.M. thinking about this situation, and also this thought occurred to me-----partly because I put a decent, adjustable trigger on the action before I took it home from the stealer-dealer. I was unaware of the gun sites (pardon the pun) you mentioned, and will do that today, MikeG.

This was my SECOND .257 Roberts. The first was a Remington m-721 when I was a Game Warden (boy, talking about hiring a fox to guard your hen house !) at a couple of Army bases in Calif., in 1954. That was where I learned that bullet placement, knowledge of animal-anatomy and a host of other things were a a few more hundred feet per second or an extra 50 grains of bullet weight. My Leupold scope had a 1 MOA target dot and out to 300 yards or so, if I wasn't breathing too hard, I could keep the bullets in the dot if the wind wasn't blowing too hard. I killed every kind of animal in those base areas where no LEGAL hunting had been permitted since 1947-----coastal blacktail, whitetail, bob cats, seals ( not the Navy's---they didn'r exist then anyway :) .and all manner of small game. My personal paradise ! Everything was all downhill
from there. heh heh

Thanks again MikeG,

Chuck
 
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