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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
HI GUYS,

Seeing that : I hate my new Ruger M-77 in .223 Rem; I dislike the Ruger company as much as the rifle; I did something stupid that resulted in my jamming a bore brush and steel cleaning rod in the barrel; I am an admirer of the 7mm TCU, the .17 remington and the 6mm TCU; have about 2,000 Winchester once-fired .223 brass; have my rifle at a gunsmith now; will probably need a new barrel---------have any of you an idea of how I could inexpensively attain a set of barrels that would easily interchange in my M-77 rifle ?

I feel like cutting the rifle into small sections and sending it to Ruger with a request for them to place the parts in various bodily orrofices where the sun never shines, and just writing up this recent monetary loss to "education".

I currently have six Ruger guns and have had many many more over the last 50 years so am not unaware of the wonderful guns they USED to make, so I don't need any lectures in that regard, but if you can help with my question, I'd appreciate it.

:confused: chuck
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hi kdub,

Yep, a conumdrum is close to the situation's description alright !

Thanks for the tip. This is the first time I ever needed a new barrel so I've never been there or done that.

Read my thread again and you'll see that I took full blame for the obstructed barrel. However, the rifle itself was found to have steel splinters in both bore and chamber. Ain't those new $400 bore scopes wonderful ? I did NOT put them there----Ruger did !

I was angry and when angry I beat heck out of things or people, if possible. I'm a 69 year old kid. Good advice on the cleaning tip. This is the first rifle that I've ever ( since my Army days) that I've used a metal object in my bores. It'll also be my last. Back to chemicals for this guy !

I figured on that stuff about barrel swaps, but still have not the slightest idea on the cost. No matter, however, I'm so broke it is pathetic. Sorry I bothered you. Thank you for trying to help me. Hope you do it again some time.

:) chuck
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
!

:) Hi kcih,

I've got a few of TC products and love them very much. Depending upon how much damage will be caused by the gunsmith who has the gun, I shall rebarrel with a 7mm TCU and use it for 100 and 200 yard hole punching only---or---just have the barrel polished---whichever.

As many times as I've admitted my stupidity, you must think that I LIKE to do those admissions----but I really don't. I do them in hopes someone else might be able to prevent my latest screwup. So----here goes---again !

I was irritated that machine errors at the time of manufacture, and I thought if I used bore brushes, chemicals, Chore Girls pads and the like, that perhaps the slivers, or splinters or whatever they are called---would be eliminated. Working from the breech end, the brush got stuck somehow, someway. flooding the bore on both ends with WD-40 and other slippery agents, I tapped gently at first and increased pressure. Then the rod got stuck inside also. So I used another stainless steel rod from the muzzle and IT GOT STUCK. ! I put the gun in one of my basement gun cabinets for a couple of months waiting for my anger to dwindle away. I took it to a gunsmith last week.

:) dummy chuckie
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Hi kcih,

Thanks for the info on the rebore-job. MikeG also favors this idea so I'll proceed in that direction AFTER we see what the bore looks like after the removal operation. Yee Gods, kcih, thanks to your asking about HOW i screwed up in the first place, I remembered what I had done !! I was working a CHAMBER brush in the chamber, and probably tried to force THAT thing down the bore !! I'll bet that is what happened ! The first steel rod I used was a section-type rod, and I'd bet that when I got ticked and hit it hard with a hammer, that the male screw portion was driven inside the female portion, thus expanding it against the bore wall.

Thanks for reminding about the fire lapping of the bore, kcih.

My dealer sucks. And I bought three Rugers from him in as many months. Heretofore, Ruger has been less than helpful in past conversations and I intensely dislike those home-office types. I'm a poor man, but kissing the fanny of someone I don't respect is not something I'll do for money.

The chamber burr would scratch a case after firing ,and presumably the bore burr would scratch a bullet jacket. I appreciate your helping me very much.

:) chuck
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Hi kcih,

This info you've given me is all new to me, and is definately most helpful.

How in the heck did a young whipper snapper like you get so darned gun-smart and experienced ?

My dad was born in Omaha, Ne, in 1905, in a sodhouse on a horse ranch far from town. He was quite a guy, but died when I was 7 yrs old in 1941, in Dayton, Oh.. He hated guns as much as his father loved them. Grandpa never left me any in his will, but ------I remember him just as well anyway.

I'll certainly check out the 6mm TCU. It may be the less costly thing to do and should be fine for 80 gr. bullets at 100 and 200 yard paper punching.

Not having shot the 6mm TCU, but having shot a friend's 7mm TCU in a Contender, I was much impressed with it. It would shoot better than I am able to hold and squeeze anyway. While I had already purchased a few barrels for my Contender before shooting the 7mm TCU, I never added it to my collection, but should have. That was back in 1984 in Calif..

:) chuck
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Hi Mike,

I just checked with Cliff LaBounty. Seems like a real "straight-shooter" and nice guy.

You may be interested in a couple of things he had to say:
1. That he will no longer rebore Ruger or Winchester STAINLESS barrels because they are "gummy" ( or too soft ) and he has had only a 70% success rate with them.
2. That he highly reccommends "Pac-Nor Barrels" in Oregon as a source for barrels because they have the latest and greatest computerized machinery.

Hi kcih,

Cliff LaBounty agrees that the 6mm by either 45mm or 47mm length is best for the least expensive conversion.

What would your reccommendations be as to barrel length ? I'm thinking a short bull barrel would be to my liking as I just punch paper with it.

:confused: chuck
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Hi kcih,

Thank you for your continued interest in my little project, compared to many of your current and past projects. I shall keep you posted.

After many hours on the computer doing research, I agree that the 6 x 45mm caliber ( or 6mm/.223 samo samo) would be the best rebore, but reboring the Ruger stainless is out of the question because of the soft, cheap stainless they use in their barrels.( Also, Winchester falls into this catagory.)

Research also has discouraged me due to a lack of die that I can afford without buying pure junk. So-----it looks like I'm limited to staying with the .223 Rem. caliber, but will buy a Pac-Nor barrel in a quality stainless steel. I feel this will be a loser project and would be better to just throw the Ruger in the city dump where it really belongs. I have no confidence in it at all and feel like every nickle put into it is wasted money.

Years ago when I made good money, I had a custom .257 Roberts made for me. It still shoots 1 moa for me in my now-deteriorated condition. I've been saving it for my kids, but none want it. So I may as well enjoy it while I still can and throw that crappy Ruger away.

Growing old when you are poor is definately not much fun, but better than being dead. I'm lucky to own the fine .257 Roberts, as example.

Your gun history was very interesting. You were so very fortunate to have the opprotunities and the intelligence to capitalize on them. You are a very interesting person with many talents and much knowledge that you are willing to share with others.

God bless you, kcih.

:) Chuck
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Hi kcih,

Thanks, kcih, I'll check the e-bay site daily in hopes of finding some dies.

:) I did WORSE than a sledgehammer. The final act of ignorance and anger was to point the muzzle down, and pound the rod-stump soundly against the cement floor. :( And no, they haven't been able to budge the obstructionS yet. I have four soild stainless rods, so what did I use ? Yep, a sectioned, steel rod and chamber brush from a US Army cleaning kit. SHEEECH !

Thanks, kcih, I hadn't thought of USED barrels, which is certainly preferable to throwing the Bugger Ruger in the city dump. I'll begin an immediate search for one. Maybe someone who reads this would care to donate one to me for a nominal cost ? Are you guys watching ? I'll inquire on other Forums also, but I haven't explored other Forums because I like this one so much-----because of guys like you, kcih.

:( Chuck
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
:) Hi Mike,

Your dad lucked out, didn't he ? That broadens my hope for a solution even further.

I was in bed this A.M. thinking about this situation, and also this thought occurred to me-----partly because I put a decent, adjustable trigger on the action before I took it home from the stealer-dealer. I was unaware of the gun sites (pardon the pun) you mentioned, and will do that today, MikeG.

This was my SECOND .257 Roberts. The first was a Remington m-721 when I was a Game Warden (boy, talking about hiring a fox to guard your hen house !) at a couple of Army bases in Calif., in 1954. That was where I learned that bullet placement, knowledge of animal-anatomy and a host of other things were a a few more hundred feet per second or an extra 50 grains of bullet weight. My Leupold scope had a 1 MOA target dot and out to 300 yards or so, if I wasn't breathing too hard, I could keep the bullets in the dot if the wind wasn't blowing too hard. I killed every kind of animal in those base areas where no LEGAL hunting had been permitted since 1947-----coastal blacktail, whitetail, bob cats, seals ( not the Navy's---they didn'r exist then anyway :) .and all manner of small game. My personal paradise ! Everything was all downhill
from there. heh heh

Thanks again MikeG,

Chuck
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Hi Axelnut,

Thanks for the tip on ershawbarrels. I'll check them out also.

Yep ! There are a host of calibers having the same head dimentions as the .223 that would be a "blast from the past" to play with. If I outlive my wife, the trustee of the family purse, I think I'll do exactly that. :) There is much in the Savage line to admire. I have some of their earlier stainless models and found them very accurate FOR THE MONEY and nice to look at !

In late 1954, I was in charge of security on Angel Island when many Nike sites were under construction. We rotated that responsibility every 24 hours with other M.P. non-coms at Presidio. I'd arrive on the Army's LCM at 3:30 P. M., relieve the old crew, put my new crew in the Police Bld, hop in a jeep, kill a deer before 5 P.M., arrive at the Contractor camp about 5:30 P.M., use their band saw to cut up the deer, and have their cook fix a nice feed for their crew, and mine , for dinner about 7 P.M.. What a life ! I killed deer with the .45 ACP, the .357 Mag, the .22 LR at ranges from a few feet to about 10 yards out----humanely !

Thanks for the tip, axelnut.

:) Chuck
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Hi Marshall,

Gee Whiz ! What an idea ! I'm gonna print this out and take it down to the gunsmith and see if I can get him to do that. If not, then I'll take it to a machine shop and have them to their machining, then I'll take it to a buddy at an auto lube shop and ask them to "blow the obstructions". Then back to the machine shop and have the barrel cut back some as there is no front , open sight anyway. What a plan ! What a guy ! :D

Thanks again. Gotta get hot ! God bless you, Mr. Stanton. I'll let you know what happens.

;) Chuck
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Hi Marshall, kcih, Mike G and axelnut,

Just returned from the 'smith, who will explore the grease zerk idea and the USED barrel idea and decide which is cheapest. Then the replacement barrel will be firelapped by me, and some groups fired. The gun then will be either retained or sold.

The important thing is to thank you guys for providing me with the best direction to use in recovering as much of my original investment as possible. I was about to waste my whole $500 due to frustration and anger with myself and Ruger.

My 'smith says he will no longer work on Ruger or Winchester stainless guns of any kind if that work involves drilling or tapping or reboring. He says he sells fire-lapping materials to all people who buy such guns from him----if possible ! He says Ruger's barrels are the worst about having burrs in the barrles and/or chambers, but not ALL barrels are screwed up. Those that are, he says fire-lapping takes care of barrels and that he can polish the chambers to a mirror finish.

We can consider this matter closed for the next couple of months due to hunting season swamping him with work.

Thanks again and God bless you all.

:) Chuck
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Hi MikeG,

I traded the P.O.S. Booger Ruger to a 'smith for his doing a porting job on my .454 Booger Ruger. Good riddance. I shall never again but another stainless Ruger gun of any type for any price.

I'll stick with my dozen pistols that I love and keep my .257 Roberts that shoots 1/2" m.o.a. and sometimes better when all goes well.

I've taken all but three shotguns to a dealer to have sold for me, so that is another area in which I'm getting out of.

I've been going over the records of the groups shot with the Booger Ruger .223 and my TC Contender did better in the same caliber. You wouldn't believe how poorly the Ruger did in comparison.

I've NEVER had the kind of troubles that my last three Ruger rifles had given me in my 50+ years of shooting and reloading.

Thank you for all your help and concern. And thanks goes to kcih and others who attempted to help me. Actually, all the input WAS very helpful and expanded my perspectives.

God bless you all at Beartooth.

Chuck
 
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