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Super Moderator
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We try to do the right thing

Just to be clear, we Moderators did not pile on anyone, but did want to express some of our concerns and request some restraint when posting loading data that may be a bit hot for some firearms. It was presented in a private, professional and respectful manner. I agree with that course of action as outlined by the two previous posts by Board Moderators. We usually try to administer justice tempered with mercy. All the best...
Gil
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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Jack,

After due consideration, if you can point to MODERN, PRESSURE-TESTED load data for the .44-40, then we may well consider it. Use the example of 'Ruger-only' loads for the .45 Colt. Our usual bullet/powder sources went to the trouble of developing and testing that data specifically for the large-frame Rugers, T/Cs, and so on. Since it is out in print, then there is a second source for a reloader (and us) to check anything that appears on the forum. In addition, many of the modern .45 Colt loads are with 300gr. bullets and loaded to where they won't fit in an old SAA, anyway. That's how I load mine. Too long to fit in guns from the 1800s.

Don't cite Ackley as 'proof' that your loads are OK. For one thing, nothing he wrote was pressure tested by him. Second, components change over time and his stuff was published a LONG time ago.

If you buy a pressure trace, and get some data, then the issue can be revisited. The .44-40 is just a poor candidate to have data floating around when one of the rounds could end up in a handgun that was barely sufficient to contain black-powder pressures, from the dawn of modern metallurgy.

That's how I see it.
 

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You will note that the reloading manuals seldom agree on maximum load data. That is normal they are using different gun. And we know that guns are as individual as people. A load that shoots well with no pressure signs in one gun may blow up another identical gun.

I had a Remington Model 700 in 30-06 that could not take the maximum loads carefully crafted from the Speer manual No. 13. The max loads would blow primers and stick cases. Maximum loads for that rifle was a full grain less than that listed in the Speer reloading manual. It is vitally important to start reloading for a new to you rifle someplace in the lower range of loads listed in the Manuals and slowly work up.
Find out how the gun responds to your handloads before going to Maximum or Plus P loads.
 

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Question - Do the Propellant Manufacturers in their load development testing use a SAAMI 'Recommended" test Breech And Barrel combination for measuring Pressures and Velocities?
Chev. William
 

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The Shadow (Super Mod)
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Propellant manufacturers are defense contractors, or state owned defense conglomerates. So they will test to the customers spec, which pretty much means NATO EPVAT test standards, or CIP standards.

But to the spirit of how things get pressure tested, minimum spec reference barrels with transducers, in universal receivers.

SAAMI, CIP and NATO testing all varies slightly from one another, primarily in the location where the pressure measurement is taken. That difference in measurement, when not understood, is why people think the 5.56 & 223 run different pressures; when they do not.
 

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Thanks for The Information.
I suspected that those in Europe would be using CIP Regulation Standards according to their Laws.
My Curiosity was toward USA and SAAMI 'Recommendations; as they are not Required by Law, just Industry Conventions.

I think you answered me in that all seem to use "Universal Receivers" with "Minimum Specification Barrels".
Just the actual Position and type of Pressure measuring device is different between the Various Testing Regimens.

I wonder just how much difference in the Pressure Measured exists between the different techniques used?

Chev. William
 

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The Shadow (Super Mod)
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Short of comparing SAAMI and CIP numbers, I'm not sure.
Nick or Humpy probably has a pretty good idea.
 

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Because technology and gun strength are constantly changing, this board allows almost unrestricted posting of technical information, much of which is unsuitable for any but advanced reloaders to attempt to work with. In order to protect the less experienced and less cautious persons from making unwarranted assumptions and thereby hurting themselves, we ask that all descriptions of Heavy and Extra Heavy loads and loads not published by a reputable source be preceded with the following caution. Please copy and paste it into your post.

CAUTION: This post discusses loads or load data that equals or exceeds published maximums for the cartridge(s) mentioned. Neither the writer, The Shooter's Forum, nor the staff of The Shooter's Forum assume any liability for damage or injury resulting from using this information. DO NOT ATTEMPT TO DUPLICATE THE DESCRIBED LOADS without first working them up from a published safe starting level charge while watching for pressure signs. If you don't know how to do that, don't try.
Lyman Reloading handbook, 49th edition page 299 for rifles.

also, reputable shooters....
John Kort and John Taffin.

Here is Taffin

http://www.sixguns.com/tests/tt4440.htm
Read John Taffin's Book of the 44

I followed the rules as darkker told me to in an email a few months back.

Pretty sure there somewhere I was also told not to link to any websites videos etc.

In many of my posts, I also state that I use a 44 magnum frame revolver with a 44-40 cylinder. Wall thickness is key, we know the frame will take the punishment.

Been doing this for over ten years.....just trying to follow the rules
 

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"Equals or exceeds maximum loads" from which manual? If you want "magnum" performance from a 44-40, get a 44 magnum. The brass is built for it.

RJ
I do have a 44 magnum revolver.......I use the 44-40 cylinder in it. I also have an MGM 20" barrel that is 1 1/4" thick I use to shoot very high pressure loads that would make Elmer turn over in his grave. Brass comes out just fine ;-)


Uberti Buckhorn 44 Magnum framed 44-40 cylinder left vs Uberti Cattleman frame cylinder right


The purpose, if you have been following my posts, is not to produce 44 Magnum ballistics but to reproduce original 1903 "High Velocity" 44-40 performance @ 22,000 psi (probably should be CUP)....which I have successfully accomplished other than knowing exact pressures. have always tried my best to post in a friendly and informative method but sometimes when I get pushed into a corner "poked at like a lion in a cage" , lack of due process, and accused of trying to do something I am not.....I do get a little defensive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UN6undl4ZgI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CiUFqhsFcg


Final statement, I was following directions......
 

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"Other than knowing exact pressures...."


Yes, get back to us when you have some pressure data, and figure out how to keep said loads out of ancient .44-40s that would not handle the same.
Thought I was, I'll try again :D
 

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On second thought, nah, you guys win. Enjoy your forum. I can lead a horse to water but I can't make him drink it.
 

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Yeah, I see what you guys did there, slick!!! I guess I know more than you and you are simply intimidated.
 
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