I've equated the 400+ yard influence due to modern young hunters do not want to walk more than 100 yards from their truck; and then shoot off a rest across a valley to the next ridge!

 

I don't believe that anyone is saying that the long shots are the norm, but that on occasion a long shot will be the only shot available. Some can shoot accurately at long distances, many cannot. I've mentioned in other posts an elk I shot at 350 yards and a deer I shot at 400 yards. Do you want to read about the elk I shot at 40 and 50 yards, the deer at 15 to 20 yards or the moose and mountain goat at about 50 yards? I think many who get upset when long shots are mentioned are jealous that they are not capable of shooting longer distances.

 

HOG WASH!

 

Where I hunt a shot at an elk can be from 10 to 400 yards easy. The ten yard shot you'd better be quick, because the elk has more than likely filtered further into the dense oakbrush quicker than you can get your gun up.

90 percent of my elk hunting is done in this.



So you need to get to a vantage point so you can look down into it like this.



And this



Most people think elk live here



But in reality elk live here too so you can't tell me you are going to get within 100 yards of an elk here.



Yes, I've taken some long shots at elk. 464 yards is my furthest and 35 is the shortest. I practice what I consider "long range" shooting with my four elk rifles. I also have limits for each one as to what is "long range".

I also value an elk's life so I won't take chances. If I feel there is a risk of a miss or worse a non-fatal hit Mr. (or Miz ) Elk lives to be hunted another day.

Oh, proof that elk actually do live in wheat fields for those who may doubt.



Patience, perseverance and practice (lots and lots and lots of practice) will get you this



And this







A few of these



And many many many cherished memories like this



I'm not actually the Elk Whisperer, I am Son of Elk Whisperer.

RJ

 

Hey, I know that guy from work.

 

I'd say around here, from guys I've talked to, many are shot at 100 hundred or less.

Of those I've taken, the closest was about 40 yards and longest was approaching 350

 

Closest elk shot was around 200 yds. The most distant one was 375 yds. Never had one close enough to smell, let alone have snot blown on me!

 

For Recoil junky--

Nice photos and comments. Ive thought about the 400-600 yards shots. I know good ranging devices are readily available. I have stated that many of the 185yard shots are really about 80 yards, in actuality but..

Regarding the photos posted-- How far(approx) are the elk in photos #2 and #3??

Thanks

Im not there but I might tyr a shot on one of the elk in those photos.

I get the same discussion in the duck blind about ducks that were just shot at.

I recall a time when I returned to the dock after a short hunt, over deels. The young neighbor fellows pulled up and asked "how many did you get?"

I said 'There" and they asked "How many times did you shoot?" I said three... I was lucky as all get out. Shot once and two dropped-only time ever that happened to me. I had to shoot one of them again. Very shortly another flock went by and I got another.

Funny thing was that in each case I just stood there and didnt fire the other barrel... I know my odds would have gone way down.

 

langence +1.


most long range shooters are not elk hunters...and most elk hunters are not long range shooters.

 

Nice photos RJ. Love the one with that cute little guy looking just a little bewildered. I didn't know y'alll collected the tushes(ivories). I thought that was a European thing and red deer.
I have tended to mount mine and make jewellery for friends. I only have a few which tell me stories and the one mounted in the bullet remains was one I shot in Poland and I never did find the lead. The head was only a small one at 7.5 kilograms(16 1/2lb), clean half skull. All I could afford. I have driven down some of that country and you are right. You would need to be like a racing snake to get real close

 

Nice photos RJ. Love the one with that cute little guy looking just a little bewildered.

Bewildered?? I was scared spitless!!!! That bull scored 364 and something.

I didn't know y'all collected the tushes(ivories). I thought that was a European thing and red deer.

Where do you think we learned how to do that? And actually the "ones before us" collected them too, to adorn clothing and make "jewelry". I just clean 'em up, drill a hole in 'em and put them on a string, one from each elk. Some were "taken" from me without my permission, but they all mean something.

I have driven down some of that country and you are right. You would need to be like a racing snake to get real close

You can't hurry through it that's for sure, but elk can disappear like a wisp of smoke, gone in a heart beat while you're standing there wondering what that slimy stuff is on the side of your face and wishing for a clean pair of pants all the while knowing it's not elk poo you smell.

lang, the two bunches of elk are the same elk only minutes apart. The first picture they are probably 300 yards? The second, maybe 30 (?), but no further than 50. I coulda hit them with a rock and I can't throw rocks very far.

RJ

 

It really depends where you're at.

Elk were actually a plains animal but were largely driven from that habitat into more wooded areas.

In SD, it depends on what unit you draw for tag in. Some of the units are in the northern Black hills where the trees can be pretty dense and the terrain a bit steeper and a long shot is less likely. In the southern Black Hills and in the units in the hog back around the fringes however, you are more likely to encounter more open terrain, more rolling hills and large meadows where a 400 yard shot is not out of the question.

 

I recognize almost all those places RJ. I also have a pewter box full of ivory on a shelf in Dinosaur. Even though I kill elk, I'm also an animal lover, and yes I debate that dichotomy in my sleep all the time. I pride myself with clean kills. I guess that's why I never hunt with a bow. I've taken elk out to a tad over 500 yards, but I feel really comfortable from 300 yards in, even after getting snow down my crotch after a long stalk like this last season.

 

A large percentage of the great long shots that are bragged up aren't really so long. I've checked many a 300 - 800 yard shot after the fact and found them to actually be 150 to 300 yards in fact. Not to say long shots aren't successfully taken, but most hunters tend to start placing more restrictions on themselves as the grow older and mature. I once shot an elk at 768 yards, I was young, dumb, and very lucky. I easily could have wounded and lost that elk. Other than that one stupid, I've only shot over 250 yards once (350, ideal conditions) for 40 some elk. I've passed up many 300+ yard "opportunities"--because really, they weren't. I practice and know that I can hit an elk at 500 yards 9 out of 10 times (using some sort of rest, of course), but I don't.

 

A large percentage of the great long shots that are bragged up aren't really so long. I've checked many a 300 - 800 yard shot after the fact and found them to actually be 150 to 300 yards in fact.

I think that's very true as well.

I'll shoot at 200 and 250 yards at my in-laws with .22 LR as well as with CF rifles, and over the last few years I've been doing this, I've encountered many hunters who've heard the gun shots, dropped by to observed the proceedings and then estimated and pronounced the range to the tree line (250 yards) as being 400 to 500 yards.

Based on their combined expertise I can not only claim to be able to consistently hit 8" steel plates at 400 to 500 yards with a .22 LR, but I can produce witnesses.

Generally speaking the average hunter is not a great shot and is even worse at range estimation. With many of those long shots that get reported I suspect the range is perhaps 1/2 to 2/3 rds what's claimed - and had the range actually been that long, most of them probably would have missed.

 

As I hunt the same area year after year I've found GPS to be a wonderful tool. I have plotted from the places I sit to places where elk routinely travel using maps generated by my company's GPS grading system (and some help from my engineer friend) which can get me within a tenth of a foot. Now I realize most hunters can't benefit from this technology, but the newer GPS's can plot distance from point "A" to point "B" in a straight line, so if you do have a favorite "honey hole" all it takes is a bit of leg work.

Then of course a Leica laser range finder is probably easier. Hopefully Santa will bring me one someday.

RJ

 

Then of course a Leica laser range finder is probably easier. Hopefully Santa will bring me one someday.
RJ

I carry a Leica laser range finder whenever I think there might be the possibility of a long shot and highly recommend them. There are now high quality binocular laser range finder combos available (the rancher on my "ranching for wildlife" hunt 3 years ago had one), but they are even more expensive than the Leica rangefinder Swarovski binocular combo I carry.

 

Range guestimation

Being born & raised in the east, when I first went out west to my brothers TINY 75 acres in the middle of huge cattle ranches of thousands of acres in KIOWA CO, it seemed smaller than a postage stamp & they don't call it big sky country for nothing. I told my BRO I'm gonna take the dirt bike and go check out that windmill over there, thinking it might be a mile or 2 away. He says, you don't have any idea how far that is do you?! So trying to estimate range there esp when NOT at dawn or dusk & not being able to see any contours can really be extremely tough, especially in very open areas with no trees. NO TREES, that was hard to get used to. And YES I gotta admit westerners on avg are better long range shooters, likely cuz that's where they are from. On the other hand Westerners can feel clostraphobic in our dense woods, and say something like I've never seen so many trees. I guess it's kinda relative to what you are used to.

 

On the other hand Westerners can feel claustrophobic in our dense woods, and say something like I've never seen so many trees. I guess it's kinda relative to what you are used to.

Yeah, that's true!!! Went through Tennessee, Kentucky, Virginia, West (by God) Virginia, Maryland and southern Pennsylvania a few years back. You do have a lot of trees. Pretty country back there.

WAY off topic but: Hazard County Kentucky? It don't look anything like it did on Dukes of Hazard!!! We did stop at a burger joint in Hazard and I had the absolute best burger I ever ate.

RJ

 

Elk...

I live and hunt in Eastern OR but have also taken elk in ID. All were taken in pretty open high desert. I've only harvested 11, I was lucky and took all 11 in 10 years. Most shots were under 100 yards, the longest was just over 200 yards. All were shot with rifles; 7x57, 30-06 and one with a 7mm Mag.

I hate to say this but A LOT of the "hunters" making the long shots are too obese or too lazy to properly hunt and use technology to replace true hunting skills. I'm OK with technology, I use a scope (except with my M/L) but it should not replace the thrill of the hunt. Sorry, I digress....it's just that I have come on too many carcasses that were recoverable animals if the "hunter" would have just walked the 5-600 yards to see if they'd actually connected.

Bill in OR

 

I like to hunt elk in the dark timber with a big lever action (.348 Win, 45/70, etc.), or with the .358 Norma short rifle that I built. My closest shot at elk was 10 yards, and my longest was 40 yards. Much of that has to do with "...brow tine 3" long.., "...3 points on one side...:, etc.. I want to be **** sure what I am shooting at. I have come across too many dead elk that were shot and left when the "ground check" did not live up to what the hunter "thought" he was seeing at long range.

 

Over around Eagle and Avon where I've done most of my hunting the elk live in dense aspen groves, most shots are under 200 yards. I have hunted in south park on several occasions however where shots could be long but ended up killing a cow at 35 yards, so it all depends on your area. I've seen guys unload there guns on an elk herd that were 800 yards from the road holding dead on not having a prayer of actually hitting one, that happens a lot.
I was in Sportsmans Warehouse on Tuesday looking at rifles and a guy about my age walked up and started boasting about a shot he made on a coyote that morning with his 223, "yep he was a third of a mile" I immediately asked how far he held over for the shot and he held his hand about a foot apart. Let me see...5280ft divided by 3 = 1760 ft divided by 3 again = 586 yards wow!!! He must have it zeroed at 500 yards, he sensed my skepticism and didn't hang around for anymore questions, the Sportsmans clerk said that he here's stories like that everyday.
I thought that with the advent of rangefinders most of the stories would go away but I guess it's like anything else, people will always brag.
I have never shot an elk over 200 yards, one deer at very long range but the majority were under 250, antelope tend to be a little longer but I don't believe I've ever HIT one over about 425.

Nice pictures RJ, the elk in the wheat fields, is that in January after the herds migrate down from the hills?
Is that you with the bull and what looks like a sendero? 7 ultra?

 

Nice pictures RJ, the elk in the wheat fields, is that in January after the herds migrate down from the hills?
Is that you with the bull and what looks like a sendero? 7 ultra?

Thanks Kev. Those are actually east of the house in mid November just before 4th season if memory serves. It's actually CRP ground that is right next to wheat fields

Yep, that's me and the Sendero SFII is in 300RUM.

Irv has a good point. A range finder is a good tool and as soon as funds permit, I "aim" (pun intended) to get a Leica. One of my pdog hunting buds has one and he's forever telling me "how far" it is to this or that.

This thread: http://www.shootersforum.com/rifles-rifle-cartridges/85121-300-yard-tests-2.html tells a feller a lot about how things actually work. Things like your rifle, the load and you, the shooter. I know I learned a good bit and I will get back to that test as soon as things dry out so I can get back there.

Buano, sounds like you know what it's like to have elk snot in your face! Gets the old heart a pumpin' don't it!! Your comment on "long misses" is spot on. I've done that very thing and I'm not proud of it either. Luckily the elk didn't make it very far and I had a gut feeling I'd hit him and went to investigate.

For me "closing the distance" is something I always try to do and these days with my knees the way they are, if I can't close the distance, I pass on the shot. It's not so much about the kill anymore anyway, it's about being out there and seeing critters. This spring I get to go in for yet another knee surgery so I'm hoping that by this fall I'll be able to "put the sneak" on them again.

RJ

 

29 yards with my bow. Bull
With my specialty handguns 220 yards to 660 yards (2 bulls and 6 cows)
The three longest ones were 353 yards 540 yards and 660 yards

 

I've only shot two elk. They were at 200 and 220 yards. However, they were not shot with a rifle. I used a Savage Striker pistol chambered in 30-284 Winchester. By using a pistol I am rather limited in range compared to a rifle due to it being more difficult to aim. Power wise-it is ballistically a 308 Winchester rifle. I consider 300 yards as my maximum range.

 

Elk are where you find them, and where I live they prefer dense forest. One my last Elk hunt I was setting on a tree stump when I heard a bump by a horn or hoof hitting a tree. I saw the animals legs about 35 yards away walking slowly past my position on what I was later to find out was a road. The animal walked up that road which lead into a large opening above where I was setting, it turned and walked off the road and into the opening. My range finder had already viewed this area and I knew it was 365 yards away, but all I got a glimpse of was a huge rack of horns and about three inches of his back as he walked through that opening and into more heavy forest. He simply disappeared. I found his tracks but knew he was long gone to higher ground. An hour later I killed a smaller bull that was standing in dense forest looking at me as I was making my way back to my pickup. He was about 75 yards away and when I fired, I knew I couldn't possibly miss him, but he never even flinched. He walked away as I stood there in disbelief and watched him go. I found him about 30 yards from where he was standing when I shot him with a 340 Weatherby. Most of the Elk we have killed in this area have been between 100 and 270 yards, only one of them fell immediately from one hit.

 

longest for me was 504 yds ranged with a Leica RF and I was not gonna get any closer in that particular scenario - I got the shooting sticks out and planted my butt into the hillside with my pack sucked into my belly and the sticks pulled back tight into the pack - 338 with a 6 x 42 Leupold (hardly a "long range" rig) I saw the first shot kick dirt just above his shoulder and the second dropped him, the other 4 bulls then disappeared into the brushy draw and emerged on the other side with a really nice 6 point amongst them, all skeedadling - closest was under 20 yds and when that spike stood up his eyes were as big as saucers (I know what he was thinking) head shot, same rig - I derived 10X more satisfaction from sneaking up on even a "teenager" in his bed than taking that long shot

 

I had heard that ranges in the mountains are usually overestimated and those on flat ground are usually underestimated. Since carrying a laser range finder for over a decade, I think this is true. Anyone else have a similar impression?

 

Your right on, I catch myself doing this even though I'm aware of the tendency.

 

I grew up in the East shooting woodchucks at ranges to 500 yards (or more) so I was used to shooting longer distances before I got to hunt the West.

My first elk hunt I told the outfitter I wouldn't shoot over 500 yards although I routinely practiced at longer ranges. I said that because I didn't want a guide stretching my range to where I wasn't sure I would hit EXACTLY where I aimed. I shot a 317" 6x6 at just under 9 yards — and I watched him for at least 2 minutes (with the cross-hairs on him) before I pulled the trigger. I smelled him long before I shot him — and he STUNK. I've had the privilege to shoot 2 running elk since then,both kicked out of thick brush after each discovered me close enough I could have used a spear on them, and still not shot an elk at over 80 yards. I've prepared for long shots but never taken one on elk.

Where I've hunted has limited long shots, but I always choose to close the distance given the chance. For me preparing for a possible long shot and closing the distance as far as I can are parts of the hunt I enjoy.

Like other posters I agree:

• Far fewer long elk shots are taken than claimed and many long shots are not as long as claimed.

• Many of the elk shot at long distance are shot at those distances because the hunter was unskilled or unfit to where getting closer wasn't possible.

• Many long "misses" on elk (and other game) are not misses. Elk often don't show much sign of a bullet hit and can wander off after a critical hit. Because of this I discourage hunters from taking long shots and I argue against using less than a .300 mag on elk.

 

Well said...

 

average range elk are taken

Living in Wyoming, hunting them for too many years, a good stalk and shot, about 200 yards. Long range maybe 300 but most hunters can't shot worth a crap at 300. I made a 500 yard shot but consider myself very lucky and the animal was standing still completely unaware of my presence. My rest was perfect, no wind and across the canyon. Most of mine, 200 or less.

 

I once shot an antelope buck and the people, who were long time hunters, claimed the shot has at least 600 yards. I told them it was a shade over 200 yards. My range finder proved it to be 225 yards. People are poor judges of distance!

I've killed elk in 3 different States all between 75-300 yards. The trouble isn't figuring out how far the animal is but figuring the wind/mirage. Being a long range rifle competitor have seen the effect of wind/mirage at long range, 600 to 1200 yards it's a monster. Explore any reloading manual and see what a 10 mph wind does to the impact of a bullet at 500 yards. I would love to hunt where the wind only blows 10 mph, mostly its 25-30 mph. Now take into consideration differing winds from different canyons between you and the elk. No wind flags, no visible dust blowing, which leaves you the option of getting closer or risk wounding one of the most magnificent animals in the U.S.

We owe it to the animals will hunt to kill them as instantaneous as possible. It sure helps my conscious. Another consideration is the bullet impact energy at the range you are shooting the animal. If it's a "once in a life time" bull and he's giving you a "Texas heart shot" (heading away) and you choose to pull the trigger, then it requires a bullet that will penetrate 8 feet of hide, muscle and bone. Compound this by the fact the animal is probably moving, headed for bush, and isn't planning on standing still. For me 300 yards is the maximum range I'll pull the trigger and I had better have a real steady rest. Hope this helps.

 

Longest 426 yards this was a tough hunt with a good tag but I bagged a 352 6x8. The shortest less than 25. I would say the average for me and my party is close to 275/300 yards.