[Col Kurtz]

Got a Pedersoli Mountain Man Hawken in .54. The book says between 55 gr and 100 gr loads. I bought some swaged 230 gr balls for the first few outings. What is a good choice for the powder charge? Been a while since I fired a black powder rifle, but this is not my first rodeo. Pedersoli says they always test fire their rifles at the factory and is required according to Italian laws. So, not too worried about proof testing the barrel. Also, is anyone still producing Pyrodex powder? Seems all the guys locally only have genuine BP. thanks, Kurtz

 

[cayugad]

Well there is sure nothing wrong with real black powder. As long as it is not Elephant. I will never buy that powder again in my life. Yes Pyrodex RS is still in production, but you gain no cleaning, power, or any other advantage by not using the black powder.

I would start the rifle off with 70 grains of powder. With a good patched ball that should shoot real good. I have sure looked at that rifle a lot. They are beautiful to even hold. I am sure you will be very happy with that rifle. Also that is a great caliber.

 

[oldbrass33]

Watch your ball diameter/patch thickness. When I got my Green Mtn. bbl, I got mediocre results with .490 balls, went up to .495 and it started driving tacks. I second what cayugad said about Elephant BP, it's cannon powder, very inconsistent, dirty, etc. Pyrodex needs to be cleaned up after more carefully than black, not a big deal but it forms some more complex salts than regular black. I like Goex for everyday shooting(targets). Hunting loads need more work, different bullet options, higher power perhaps. All I hunt now is paper, but I love it. Good luck with that rifle.

 

[Pete D.]

Bp

+1 about that clean up after Pyrodex. I stopped using it some years ago. If I have to clean I might as well shoot the holy black. Soap and water does it. Not a big deal at all; kinda like washing the dishes.
Pete

 

[Col Kurtz]

Thanks, all! Yes, I have shot both Pyro and BP. I tend to be on the side of Pyrodex for handling and storage reasons. Although, several years ago, I found a pound can of BP in the attic! Yikes, Still was good after at least 25 years. I didn't shoot it but put a match to it in reasonable sized piles because I was afraid to keep it around any longer. Lit RIGHT up! hahaha. Almost singed off the eyebrows on my friend who lit it! haw haw haw. We still laugh about that! That old trick you see in the movies where they pour a string of BP away from the "big blast" and light it really works, I can attest to that. That stuff burns in full Technicolor.

As far as cleaning, I take my repro pistols apart and wash the cyclinders in the sink under almost scalding water and a little soap. Dry, them. Then cook them in the oven for 15 minutes at LOW to remove all the water. Then hit them with WD-40 or RemOil and I'm done. This Hawken barrel will come off and I'm tempted to do the same with it, except the oven part.

Haven't fired a BP Rifle in over 30 years, so I'll let you know how the Hawken works!

Also, I ended up ordering supplies from Dixie cause I had trouble finding a BP store around here. I got .535" balls and .010" lubed patches. That other .005" might come into play but I hope not. Kurtz

 

[pisgah]

Kurtz, best advice is to start with the low load and work up, just like always. When you hit the right load, you will know it. The rifle will CRACK! sharply at ignition, it will shoot clean, and the accuracy will seal the deal. Try varying patch thickness and type and amount of lube to fine-tune. Have fun! You've got a nice rifle.

 

[CAROLINAHOAN]

You made an excellent choice in rifles. Personally, I'd use Goex black powder. It is easy to clean with hot soapy water, and it just plain works really well in black powder rifles..... Also, I'd go with cayugad's advice, and start off with 70 grains of powder behind a patched ball. You could definitely use less for plinking, but I'm gonna guess you'll find the sweet spot somewhere between 70 and 85 grains. Hmmmm, I'd probably stay away from using WD-40 after cleaning, and stick to RemOil or some other good gun oil to prevent rust. Either way, you're gonna have an absolute blast.

good luck with it

 

[Col Kurtz]

I just went to a fairly established gun store to buy BP. All they had was Battle Grade and FF and FFF. I asked what battle grade that was and they said "For Cannons." I told them FF should do fine, but they just went back to whatever they were doing. A bunch of jackasses if I saw saw some. Never setting foot in that store again. They have a long history of that attitude and smart mouth yo-yo's working there. Done with them.

70 grains sounds good to start with. I'll prolly only shoot targets at the rifle range with this, at least during the summer since it's so dry out I could start a grass fire pretty easy out plinking about.

WD-40 is used as it is a water displacement fluid, but it evaporates rather quickly. I always go back over them with oil of some sort.

It's 104 degrees F here today. I won't be going out to shoot unless it's pretty early in the day. Wow.

 

[Runnin Lead]

If you ar not going to hunt with it just see how it shoots at 55 gr & work up from there if not happy with that, you don't need a 100 gr load to kill paper.
You will get better ,more reliable ignition wit black than pyrodex & it also keeps better,too bad you burned your old stuff.

 

[tacklebury]

My hawken likes 777 and does ok with Jim Shockey's Extra Gold, although I have stopped using the shockey's because of inconsistent grain size and getting slightly larger groups. Nice thing with these is you don't have to be quite so zealous about instantly cleaning up, although I don't shoot it and not clean it the same day. When shooting for groups I only run a single stroke down the bore with a bronze brush followed by a stroke with a mop. I tend to get about 1" tighter groups this way. Also, with 777 there's much less sulphur odor, ie rotten eggs, and less smoke. This is much nicer when hunting especially, as you don't have to wait 10 seconds for the smoke to clear to see if the game is down or running and follow their progress.

 

[alsask]

My Lyman in .54 likes between 70 and 90 grains of 3f Goex with the patched round ball. I use Crisco for lube. Swabbing between shots with Hoppes gives the tightest groups. Pyrodex RS works well also.

 

[HardBall]

Also, is anyone still producing Pyrodex powder? Seems all the guys locally only have genuine BP. thanks, Kurtz

AFAIK, Hodgdon still makes Pyrodex but if you can find GOEX's "real" black powder (not the GOEX substitue stuff), you should count yourself lucky.

The claims by manufacturers of substitue powders about cleaning up with plain water are a bit misleading because it implies that real black powder does not... but real black powder cleans up with plain 'ole water too. In fact it takes me much less time to clean a real BP muzzleloader than it does to clean any of my rimfire or centerfire guns.

Your rifle will be super easy to clean if shooting a patched round ball with a BP friendly liquid patch lube. My personal favorite is a mix of Ballistol and water to both lube patches and as a cleaning solution in rifles that don't allow easy take down. Then use a BP friendly oil, such as straight Ballistol, for rust prevention. If you stay away from paste type patch lubes your rifle will be that much easier to clean since a liquid type patch lube will actually swab much of the fouling away each time you load. Properly loaded, swabing between shots is not needed and clean-up is quick.

The powder charge range you mentioned seems fine to me. IME, you'll likly not find best accuracy with 2F real BP until you get towards the upper end of the load range- 3F will probably give better accuracy at less than max loads.

 

[zb338]

Col,
The max load for a .54 TC Hawken is 110 grains of FFG in my book. I think the Lyman
guys are just being conservative. Just stay below that and you won't blow your gun up. When
I clean, it's soapy water followed by boiling hot water let dry followed by drowning in WD40 to
get rid of any water that might still be left then a protective oil. Your gun will probably not
shoot as well with Max. loads, as you have been told by everyone.

Zeke

 

[Col Kurtz]

I was a bit surprised to see this rifle uses a # 11 cap vs the musket cap. What is the logic for that? Also, would ffff pistol powder work in a rifle?

 

[HardBall]

Also, would ffff pistol powder work in a rifle?

4F is priming powder only, 3F is suitable for rifle and pistol.

 

[cayugad]

ffff is to fast of burning. It is a priming powder for flintlocks. Like Hardball said, 3f will work. I personally like 2f in most of my rifles.

The #11 cap is a very under rated cap. They will set loose powder off with little problem if the rifle is set up right. I like to use a good hot cap like the CCI magnum, Remington, or RWS. The musket cap works real well also. I have a couple rifles that use them. But do not underestimate that #11 cap. If the rifle is loaded properly the rifle will go off.

 

[cowpoke1955]

I have two .54 Lyman GPRs, one flint and one percussion. My favorite load is .530 ball, pillow ticking patch lubed with Ballistol oil and 80 grains of FFg Goex. I have tried FFFg Goex and it works fine. I just get tighter groups with FFg. Each rifle is different, so you need to try different things as mentioned. .530 and .535 balls, different patches, different lubes and different grain size and amount powder (FFg and FFFg). Real black powder is more consistant and easier to ignite than the sub powders like Pyrodex,777 and AAP. You also won't get any hang fire or misfire with black powder. As cayuad said, you'll do fine with #11 caps. If you are having trouble finding black powder, here are a couple of places to check out: http://www.powderinc.com/ , http://www.grafs.com/ and http://www.mainepowderhouse.com/ . Now, the fun begins finding the sweet spot for your new rifle. Enjoy!

 

[Col Kurtz]

My memory is getting old and worn, I guess. I haven't fired my pistols in many years, so I'll have to go and find the workings. I have both # 11 caps and Pyrodex, but I guess it's fff not ffff. I have it stashed in an ammo can around here somewhere. Thanks for the info all.

 

[HardBall]

I have both # 11 caps and Pyrodex, but I guess it's fff not ffff. I have it stashed in an ammo can around here somewhere. Thanks for the info all.

AFAIK (as far as I know), Pyrodex has only been offered in 2F or 3F similarities (Pyrodex RS, CTG, etc = 2F and Pyrodex P = 3F) If you've got pyrodex then it's probably not an equivalent to 4F priming powder.

I once acquired several older pounds of Pyrodex RS in a swap and one thing to make note of is that Pyrodex is hygroscopic. If the cans weren't properly sealed then, over the years, they may have attracted moisture. It may shoot OK but velocity may be a bit low compared to fresh Pyrodex.

Not to persuade you but... real BP seems to store better than Pyrodex, in my experience.