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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm thinking of putting a red dot style sight on a 243 for my grand daughters to use...thought it might be easier for them with the long eye relieve and bright red dot.

But in the catalogs I alwas see them with their own rings, which aren't designed for Ruger's machinedreciever tops. The sights don't look like 1 inch diameter.

Anyone do this, or know how hard it would be to mount on on a Ruger?
 

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My experience with the red dot scopes is that they really limit long-range accuracy, which is fine if you're shooting a 44 Mag at 50 yards, but for a .243, I think it would be a handicap. There are some better choices out there with 3.5 - 4.0" of eye relief, and it's not like that caliber is going to recoil a whole lot, anyway.
 

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Agreed. I would absolutely not put a red dot scope on that gun (or likely any gun for that matter). If somebody told me that more animals had been wounded and lost with a red dot scope than had been one shot kills, I would easily believe them without need of further confirmation. My brother's father in law had one on a .25-06, and there was no sense even looking at a deer beyond about 65-80 yards. You just had no idea what you were looking at.

I realize they aren't all that bad, but they're bad enough.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
OK guys. I guess that was a thought that deserves to be un-thought.

(Kind of like un-ringing a bell, isn't it?)
 

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Just to let you know though...I have a CZ 550 in .223 Rem. The scope I have on there right now is a 10-40 X 60 mm Zos military scope from the Chinese army (I know, I know...Chinese. It's a really great scope though!) No problems with the zoom by the way, other than the fact that anything beyond about 20 power is way too high to hold steady enough to be able to shoot anything. The bases of the scope rings were WAY too big for the rails on the CZ, though I can't remember the exact size. The only scope rings I could find that would work were just over $150 CDN PER BASE! I just machined out of the case of an old alternator (which already had approximately the shape I needed) four "V-shaped" wedges and glued them onto the bases. It works beautifully, and didn't cost me a dime.

Just thought I'd remind us all that anything is possible!
 

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I have a UltraDot 30 red dot on my 270, and it is the best thing I ever did! Scopes are fine if you're going to set in a blind overlooking a field where you might be shooting 150 yards or more, and have plenty of time to adjust zoom and make sure you have full view in the scope. However, if you hunt in the woods like I do, the red dot is ideal. I shot a nice 8 point buck 2 years ago that was running left to right just under 100 yards away in an old cut. I never would have been able to take that shot with a scope because I wouldn't have had the time to find the deer in the scope. With a red dot you keep both eyes open, put the gun up, and the bullet goes where the red dot appears. No worries about eye relief, because it's unlimited, no worries about parallax because they are parallax free. There is no magnification, but you don't need it within 100 yards anyway. The dot size is the only thing you need to be aware of ahead of time. If it has a 4 moa dot, that means it has a 4" dot size at 100 yards, which is a common size. There are also units that go down to 1 or 2 moa if you prefer.
So, your idea is very sound, and much easier for a novice to use than any scope. Just base your decision on what kind of hunting you will be doing. Will you be taking shots over 100 yards? If so, a scope may be better. If not, the red dot is the ideal answer.
 

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I won't argue with au2183's logic, especially if your grand-daughter is going to be taking running shots at deer. However, if you want her to develop confidence in her shooting (something less than a 5-6" group, at best) then stick to a good quality scope with 3-4" of eye relief. This goes without saying, but if you can set her up with a 22LR and a scope of similar size, she can practice and build that confidence.
 

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au2183:

It is quite often adviseable to keep your scope turned down to the lowest power level anyway (or at least, under 5X) if you're going to be hunting in closer quarters. Also, most quality optics that are on hunting rifles are parallax free anyway. With a scope you also keep both eyes open and the bullet goes where the chosshair appears, really making all of the above non-issues.

But even just the fact that scopes are essentially an "industry standard" should be enough to make you want to put a scope on, for ease of transition into another rifle. Or, if those advantages of the red dot still sound good to you, why not stick with the tried and true iron sights?
 

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Quick target aquisition with any scope takes practice. It comes with hunting expirience. Start her out with a scope IMO.
 

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au2183:

It is quite often adviseable to keep your scope turned down to the lowest power level anyway (or at least, under 5X) if you're going to be hunting in closer quarters.
Yup. I keep my 3x9s set to 3x unless I see a deer at range and run it up. I will confidently shoot with it set at 3x at 100yds, too, if needed. Just at close range you don't want to see nothing but hair and can't move much without spooking the deer to run it down to 3x. If the deer is at 100yds, odds are very high you can run it up to 6x to 9x before shouldering it without spooking the deer.
 

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au2183:

It is quite often adviseable to keep your scope turned down to the lowest power level anyway (or at least, under 5X) if you're going to be hunting in closer quarters. Also, most quality optics that are on hunting rifles are parallax free anyway. With a scope you also keep both eyes open and the bullet goes where the chosshair appears, really making all of the above non-issues.

But even just the fact that scopes are essentially an "industry standard" should be enough to make you want to put a scope on, for ease of transition into another rifle. Or, if those advantages of the red dot still sound good to you, why not stick with the tried and true iron sights?
Well, I've spent the last 30+ years hunting in the woods of Maine, where open sights on lever actions are still one of the most common combinations. I used a Williams peep until my eyesight finally got to the point where even that was increasingly difficult to manage. I did use a 3-9 scope for several seasons, always on 3x, but despite the obligatory off season practice, never could get used to it enough to get a fast accurate sight picture when required. Scopes other than those made for rimfires have a parallax set for 100 yards or more, which definitely makes it difficult to get an accurate picture at ranges of 50 yards or so. There is no such thing as a parallax free scope, as suggested. Only red dots can make that claim. You can send a scope back to the mfg in some cases to have the parallax reset. Then it will be off at longer ranges. My suggestion for a red dot comes from experience in my hunting environment. The idea came from bullseye target shooters, who use UltraDots more than any other sight system. To suggest that the best you can hope for is 5-6 accuracy is simply false. If target competitions can be won with red dots, they are certainly accurate enough for hunting. Thus my suggestion for a model that offers smaller dots. My 270 produces 1-2" groups at 100 yards. That's as good as many scoped setups can achieve. Much of that is determined by the shooter after all. It is still is much better than I can achieve with open sights.
I realize not everyone will agree with my suggestion, but I do expect facts to be used, not false statements born out of a lack of experience. We are here to help one another, and new shooters, not to mislead them with biased statements.
I do like and use scopes as well as red dots, and actually own more scopes than dots. But for deer hunting I use dots. IMO scopes are best used at the range, for long range shooting, and for smaller targets like squirrels. I'm trying to offer the OP an alternative solution for his needs based on fact and experience, not on bias. He deserves to hear all potential options, and make his decision from there.
Happy Holidays!
 

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Scopes other than those made for rimfires have a parallax set for 100 yards or more, which definitely makes it difficult to get an accurate picture at ranges of 50 yards or so. There is no such thing as a parallax free scope, as suggested.
On this argument, I regress. I should have most certainly said parallax adjusted, not parallax free. Also untrue, however (at least for me) is the statement that it is difficult to get an accurate picture at 50 yards. With any decent quality scope (with a decent hunting reticle...no crosshairs that take up 6" at 100 yards!), I have absolutely no issues getting good sight picture at any range beyond about 6 or 7 yards. It's a matter of training yourself to to look at your target and "feel" the crosshairs than staring at your crosshairs. I know to many who do not know what I'm talking about (due to having iron sights, red dot sights, or parallax adjustable scopes), that sounds absurd and inaccurate, but that's the way it is.

I realize not everyone will agree with my suggestion, but I do expect facts to be used, not false statements born out of a lack of experience. We are here to help one another, and new shooters, not to mislead them with biased statements.
I suspect that none of us could ever have enough knowledge about any given thing to say that our statements are borne out of absolute and complete experience, effectively making all knowledge opinion based regardless. Like a scientist saying something isn't possible, though we all know there is no way they could ever have tried it all!
 

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i have 3 sons i have been working with over the years in shooting and while i would not have any issue at all with a red dot i would have to say that a good straight 4x quality brand scope with good eye releif and mounted at the proper height would be the bees kness for quick target and sharp clear image.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Right now it has a Leupold VX-I 2-7X33 on it. Good light gathering and plenty of field of view.

The places we'll be hunting with her are our bow-hunting spots, so shots will be 20-50 yards.

The main thing I'm concerned about is that I can't be sure her head is the right distance from the scope to get the correct sight picture. How do you explain such things to a 10 year old?

I think I'll get a stick-on stock cheek pad, and place it on the stock in just the right place, then get her to practice keepign her head in the same place each shot.

I learned to shoot with a 16 guage single shot with just a front bead, and used it for squirrels, ****, pheasants, and even deer. Didn't use a scope till I'd been hunting for about 10 years. Today';s kids are just spoiled!
 

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Right now it has a Leupold VX-I 2-7X33 on it. Good light gathering and plenty of field of view.

The places we'll be hunting with her are our bow-hunting spots, so shots will be 20-50 yards.

The main thing I'm concerned about is that I can't be sure her head is the right distance from the scope to get the correct sight picture. How do you explain such things to a 10 year old?

I think I'll get a stick-on stock cheek pad, and place it on the stock in just the right place, then get her to practice keepign her head in the same place each shot.

I learned to shoot with a 16 guage single shot with just a front bead, and used it for squirrels, ****, pheasants, and even deer. Didn't use a scope till I'd been hunting for about 10 years. Today';s kids are just spoiled!
I've introduced both my wife and my daughter to shooting bigger guns in the last year or so. The best way you can explain where they should put their head, on the stock, is tell them to get close enough to the scope to get a nice, full circle and then move back a little bit at a time until it starts to not be a full circle, then move to where it just becomes complete, again. If this turns out to be a very uncomfortable position for the shooter, you may need to adjust where the scope sits, in the mounts. If you get everything set up right, they will naturally put their head in a comfortable position on the stock and get a full, bright sight picture, every time.
 

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The main thing I'm concerned about is that I can't be sure her head is the right distance from the scope to get the correct sight picture. How do you explain such things to a 10 year old?
That's actually an interesting quandry I had not considered.

I suppose broom_jm's suggestion would be a good one. I honestly don't know how I learned. My dad is not a hunter. I mostly came about my love of hunting by myself. He had several very nice guns when I was growing up (he still actually has all of them he's ever purchased, except for one), but all iron sights with the exception of an old german .22 with a dimestore bushnell scope from back in the day. I learned about scopes with that gun, and absolutely hated them. I went back to iron sights on an old .303 British for hunting for several years. Acutally, I only started using a scope myself in maybe the lasy 6 years? I purchased, quite literally, the first .270 WSM available in Canada, and shot a buck on opening morning with it. This gun is outfitted with a 3200 Bushnell Elite, and I have since learned to love scopes.

That being said, I have no idea how I learned to use one...just picked it up and shot with it, I guess!
 

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Right now it has a Leupold VX-I 2-7X33 on it. Good light gathering and plenty of field of view.

The places we'll be hunting with her are our bow-hunting spots, so shots will be 20-50 yards.

The main thing I'm concerned about is that I can't be sure her head is the right distance from the scope to get the correct sight picture. How do you explain such things to a 10 year old?

I think I'll get a stick-on stock cheek pad, and place it on the stock in just the right place, then get her to practice keepign her head in the same place each shot.

I learned to shoot with a 16 guage single shot with just a front bead, and used it for squirrels, ****, pheasants, and even deer. Didn't use a scope till I'd been hunting for about 10 years. Today';s kids are just spoiled!

That Leupold scope has a very generous eye relief window, something like 3.5-4.5". The most eye relief will be at the lowest setting. Perhaps setting the scope to 2, 3 or 4X and treating it as a fixed power would work best, starting out. Even at 2X a 100yd shot would be fairly easy. I cannot imagine there being any type of problem with marginal eye relief that could result in "scope eye" with that scope and that caliber rifle.
Good Luck.
 

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dependiing on size of kid, i think stock LOP will be more of an issue in getting them to be able to aquire a quick site picture. i ended up getting a second stock and cutting it back for them. then i had them shoulder the rifle in a bench shooting situation, haveing them hold their head/cheak where it felt best and then i slid the scope fore or aft to place it in the proper position in regaurds to their natural fit to this stock/rifle set up. i firmly beleive you need them to shoulder the rifle to where it is comfortable to them (natural fit) first then without them moving from that position, move the scope into it's position second.
 
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