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Does anyone know of a reloadable cartridge close in caliber to .22? I know there is nothing factory and it would have a be a wildcat of some kind, which I am very unfamiliar. PA has a dumb rule that you may not use any caliber larger than .23 to hunt small game and I would like to reload for my small game hunting (why, just because). I would not be pushing the bullet very fast as it would be for edible game so I don't need a large case. At this point, the best I can come up with is downloading the .223 but that is a lot of powder or empty space in the case. Either way I would like something smaller...any ideas? Thanks!
 

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You can load a 22 Hornet down pretty far, quite a bit slower than a 223. In fact, a 22 Hornet with Trailboss and a 50gr roundnose might be real close to a 22LR.
 
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I think that broom jm has the right idea with the 22 Hornet. Others for your thoughts....204 Ruger, 17 & 221 Fireball & 218 Bee (large case capacity, though).

Dan
 

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It sounds as if you want something smaller than the centrefires named, possibly to avoid noise or meat damage, or just from satisfaction at doing it with less.

The .22 Cooper bears thinking about, and a .22 repeating action should feed it nicely. I don't know if brass is still available from Cooper Arms, but if it is, or you have a lathe for the fairly easy job of turning cases from the solid, I should think they would last well. Since .005in. clearance at the neck is probably not excessive, I would try drilling a cheap engineer's quarter inch reamer with a carbide drill in the lathe, to insert a pilot.

The .17 CCM is practically the same thing necked down to .17.

LoadData: .22 CCM / .22 Cooper Centerfire Magnum (Accurate Loading Guide #2) Charge and Load Information/Data for the .22 CCM / .22 Cooper Centerfire Magnum (Accurate Loading Guide #2).

When I wanted a British round for a rook rifle which had been bored out to .410 shotgun, I chose the .25 Jeffery. I simply used a .25-20 about a tenth of an inch short, and ground the same amount off the bottom of the .25-20 dies. That doesn't get you around the .23 calibre rule (observe how hunting accidents have declined because of that one), but it could be done with various small .22 centrefires.
 

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I too am a Pa'er who hates that rule. Prior to that law I used a 308 or 30-06 for squirrel and other small game. A 110 grain lead bullet and small charge of red dot was the ticket to about 25 yards. Much beyond that there wasn't enough power to give any kind of accuracy. Been playing with the 223, 55 grain bullets and sr4759. According to a few things I found it is supposed to be around 1700 fps with minimum charge.
 

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.218 Bee? I don't know if it is more or less practical than a Hornet....
 

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The Hornet is probably the best bet; at least it has worked for me.
 

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If you search these forums you should be able to find some old posts by me about reloading plain base cast bullets in the .218 Bee. Also some discussion about the 22 Squirrel cartridge, a wildcat based on a shortened and improved .22 Hornet case.
 

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If you already have the .223 checkout Hodgdon's load data for Trail Boss and subsonic loads. I found 55gr bullets to be really accurate in my AR with these. Running around 1200 fps this is equal to standard velocity .22lr.
 

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While living in Indiana, where the use of centerfire cartridges are allowed for Small Game such as Squirrels; I have used light loaded .22 Hornet OR .218 Bee ammunition using:

1. 4.0 gr./ Unique/ 40-45 grain Hornet bullet, which about duplicates .22 LR ammunition.

2. Also 7.0 gr./ SR-4759/ 50 grain "high-velocity" type bullet, loaded up in a Remington case will yield a velocity of around 1,500 FPS. This is in a 1-in-14" twist, and if your rifle is a 1-in-16" twist try using the Unique loading (#1) or 6.0 gr/ SR-4749/ 45 grain "high-velocity" type bullet (Spitzer)

Both these loads are excellent for hunting Squirrels and are actually less destructive than a hollow point .22 Long Rifle. Too bad we can't use centerfire rifles for Squirrels here in Kentucky, as we can only use shotguns, air rifles, or .22 rimfires.:(
 

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Too bad we can't use centerfire rifles for Squirrels here in Kentucky, as we can only use shotguns, air rifles, or .22 rimfires.:(
I would gladly live with those small game regulations if Indiana would finally get rid of their ridiculous deer cartridges regs! If you ask me, or most other hunters, KY has it right on both counts! :)
 

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I would gladly live with those small game regulations if Indiana would finally get rid of their ridiculous deer cartridges regs! If you ask me, or most other hunters, KY has it right on both counts! :)
Know what you mean, Jason. It is silly that if Indiana allows the use of H.P. rifle cartridges only in a pistol, why not allow them in a regular rifle?:confused: You Folks up in Indiana (Former Hoosier Here) can use a couple of new wildcat cartridges ie: .358 HOOSIER or the one made on the WSSM cases; looks like they would allow cartridges like the .35 Remington, or anything in that class. This idea of basing a law on the "length" or the caliber, of a certain cartridge is STUPID. These two wildcats actually produce the same or more velocity than some regular banned cartridges.

I really can't figure out why Kentucky won't allow the use of small centerfire cartridges like the .22 Hornet light loaded for Squirrels, but I guess they have some valid reasons, I guess.:confused: We can use ANY centerfire cartridges for hunting Deer here in Ky.:cool:
 

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Back in the 1930s Col. Charlie Askins, then a lowly Border Patrol man, shot in the National Matchs at Camp Perry. I'm not sure which semi auto he had converted, a High Standard or a Colt Woodsman, to 22 Velo Dog. Charlie cleaned every one's clock with that combination. Unfortunately the NRA changed to rules to say 22 rim fire rather then 22 caliber.
The 22 Velo Dog was basically a 22 center fire duplicating the 22 rim fire. I believe that the cartridge is still made in Europe. The set up would be expensive to use this combination but it sure would be fun.

Jim
 

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The true Velo Dog round was extremely long, and couldn't fit in any magazine or automatic action made for the .22LR. It was allegedly introduced for protecting cyclists from attacking dogs (which never troubled me in the slightest), but probably outsold cyclists in much the same way as baseball bats outsell baseballs, or 18th century hunting swords, a very handy little cutlass, outsold huntsmen. It was used in very small pocket revolvers, mostly Belgian, which varied about as much in quality as revolvers can. I think any cartridges for target use would have to be better made than the originals, which had to do little more than make an assailant reluctant to walk to hospital.

There used to be a Velo Dog Short round, very little used, also, if you can believe it, a .22LR centrefire. Maybe a small pistol primer (or smaller) was sometimes used, but I have a vague memory that some had the punch marks a little forward of the rim, which secure an inside primer.

A while back I bought a large quantity of what seem to have been never loaded or crimped Winchester-Western .22 shotshell cases, for bullet swaging. A slight obstacle to accuracy obtainable this way using fired cases as jackets, is the firing-pin indentation. The seller, in the US, swore he had boiled out the priming composition, but the first one I tried to anneal went off with a sharp crack. (No, not pointing near me, as I make that kind of mistake one at a time.) Most of them would detonate in a RF action, which doesn't say much for airline security at that time.

I found that a large pistol primer was a smooth, running fit down to the head of those cases, and I think a strong mainspring would indent it through rimfire brass. If I wanted to do this, I would superglue in a little collar to hold the primer, and its anvil, in place. The easy way would be to drill through the centre of fired primers. This wouldn't be the reloadable case the OP asked for, though.

This begs the question why anybody would want a centrefire .22LR or similar, though. The main answer is that centrefires are more accurate than rimifires, and a bullet of inside neck diameter is more accurate than a heel bullet. We hear of the rimfire being one of the most highly developed rounds in the world, but that mostly dates from the 1960s, and centrefire ammunition has improved faster since then. I think a specially loaded Velo Dog would fit conventional LR bore dimensions, but my idea would require a special barrel blank of close to .210.
 

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John
You are correct that the original 22 velo dog would be too long to function thru the semi auto. Charlie Askins did cut them down to fit the action and I believe needed to turn the rims down a bit to duplicate, closely, the rim fire. Plus he had to have the slide and firing pin converted to center fire.
It would be nice to have a reloadable case in the 22 rim fire size. The current shortage of 22 long rifle cartridges would be a none issue.

Jim
 

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If a straight walled case was desired it seems to me that a .25 caliber would be better than .22. A little more room for a primer pocket. A .25acp would be easy on the ammo and harder on getting a rifle built.

A shame there is not more interest in small cartridges. The gun manufacturers could come up with all kinds of nifty things if they would sell.
 

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the .22CCM is the closest to a .22 LR, though it really is a closer match to the .22 WRM. I have a buddy that has a TC Contender barrel chambered for that round & has published articles on his adventures loading it, so here's some basics concerning this round that I recall. (1) Loading dies are custom, close to $200 from RCBS. (2) only current source for brass re-manufacture is a gent out in California, I can retrieve the contact info for you if needed. The original .22 hornet brass must be of manufacture by REMINGTON ! Remington .22 Hornet brass which has been unavailable for several years. Other brands are too thick, incorrect base configuration etc, MUST BE REMINGTON. My buddy got lucky because, as an advid hornet shooter, I happened to have several hundred rounds on hand which I gifted him with. The original Cooper brass, if you got lucky enough to find any, had very limited reload life, 2-3 reloads before failure, generally the primer pocket expands to the point that it won't hold the primer. If you need more info, contact me by email & I'll put you in touch with my Contender Buddy :)
 

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the .22CCM is the closest to a .22 LR, though it really is a closer match to the .22 WRM. I have a buddy that has a TC Contender barrel chambered for that round & has published articles on his adventures loading it, so here's some basics concerning this round that I recall. (1) Loading dies are custom, close to $200 from RCBS. (2) only current source for brass re-manufacture is a gent out in California, I can retrieve the contact info for you if needed. The original .22 hornet brass must be of manufacture by REMINGTON ! Remington .22 Hornet brass which has been unavailable for several years. Other brands are too thick, incorrect base configuration etc, MUST BE REMINGTON. My buddy got lucky because, as an advid hornet shooter, I happened to have several hundred rounds on hand which I gifted him with. The original Cooper brass, if you got lucky enough to find any, had very limited reload life, 2-3 reloads before failure, generally the primer pocket expands to the point that it won't hold the primer. If you need more info, contact me by email & I'll put you in touch with my Contender Buddy :)

The .22 CCM can't be made from Hornet brass, it is a straight wall case that was manufactured specifically for Cooper.
 
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