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Discussion Starter #1
Anyone with a good, accurate load using Reloader 19 for a 150 gr bullet in a .30-06? Looking for an accurate load for antelope and deer hunting, and I have several pounds of R-19 to burn.

Thanks,:)
 

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Reliant gives 62 gr. as a max load with a 150 gr. Speer bullet. I started out at 59 gr. and ended up at 61.5. 62 gave me no woes, but accuracy was a shade better at 61.5.

As always, I will point out that your rifle may or may not like this particular load.
 

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Sierra's manual shows starting at 53.3 grains and working up to 60.9 grains with 150 grain bullets. This is in a Federal case with Federal 210 primers (Alliant may use a bigger case; Federals are not generous inside). QuickLOAD shows the high end load is compressed and not efficient (lower loads are less so), wasting 8% of the powder unburned out of the barrel, so this powder will produce more muzzle blast and recoil and shoot dirtier than is ideal. RL15 would do a lot better. It looks to me, in general, like that powder's really too slow for the '06 until you get to compressed loads under bullets 180 grains and up, which is the lowest weight at which the Hornady manual starts to list RL19 loads. I would also be concerned about producing secondary muzzle pressure spikes using a powder that slow with a bullet as light as 150 grains.

Most load recipes only occasionally prove accurate in more than one gun. I would recommend you read through Dan Newberry's site for a systematic approach to finding a good accuracy load with a particular bullet and powder and case and primer combination.
 

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Unclenick, thanks for the link to Newburys article. Very interesting reading. After looking at his OWC data I was amazed that most of my pet loads for the same rounds fall right into his OCW recommendations. I must have been doing something right......
 

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IMR4064 works so well in my 30-06 that I rarely go to Alliant in that caliber. However, I did try some with Nosler 150gr SPBT Accubonds. The best group (1-1/4") was with 62.0c RL19, CCI200 primers, and an OAL of 3.250"

ON EDIT: I went back and read Nick's post more closely. Then I went to my notes. Now, I don;t know enough about powder speeds and other scientific variables like Nick and others, but this was interesting. With 125gr Speer TNT HPflat bullets, 62.5c of RL19 is listed as my 1st and 2nd BEST Load, producing several 4-shot groups at .5" and .6". A light bullet and slow powder. I don;t understand it but my Remington likes it!
 

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That happens once in awhile, too. In general, the slower the powder (assuming same peak pressure) the greater the muzzle pressure. (That's one reason the recoil is greater than you get from a faster powder that produces the same velocity with the same bullet. The other is that since roughly half the powder mass is added to the mass of the bullet for acceleration down the tube, the heavier the charge, the heavier the equivalent bullet weight is for recoil purposes.) When muzzle blast plays against the base of the exiting bullet, any tiny imperfection in the base or the crown make that blast deflect asymmetrically, increasing initial bullet yaw. Increased yaw is normally is detrimental to accuracy.

But the above stars don't always line up against you. Your gun barrel may flex and twist just right with the heavier recoil. The longer barrel time associated with a heavier powder getting you to a given velocity may cause a the bullet to exit in a more advantageous phase of barrel deflection. Your crown may be virtually perfect. The bullets may be nearly perfect at the base. If they are flat base, they dwell in the blast a shorter time than a boattail does while clearing the crown, so the effect of the crown symmetry is lower on them to start with. This is(one of the reasons flat base bullets are usually easier to get tight groups with at shorter ranges than boattails are; the boattails need distance over which to recover from initial yaw.

So, as usual, nothing's written in stone. It's just playing the odds. Though the other thing I have come to be concerned with more recently in using slow powder with light bullets are the secondary pressure spikes. A couple of pressure readings from RSI's web site below, show them.





The second lump in each chart is the secondary pressure spike. A normal pressure curve looks like this:




The secondary spike is not actual gas pressure at the chamber. Rather it is the result of the light bullet scooting out faster than the slow powder's ability to make gas, which drops the pressure and burn rate, letting the bullet slow under friction until the propellant gas and powder mass catches up. When they strike the bullet base, the bullet is rapidly radially expanded against the bore. It's like a radial hammer blow from the inside. In a gun that survives this, the resulting elastic expansion of the steel travels down the barrel to where the strain gauges read the steel distortion as pressure. The cases show no pressure signs, though, as they would if actual gas pressure were creating the reading.

Texas gunsmith Charlie Sisk has been able to blow the muzzles off .338 Lapua Mags with predictability doing this. He had some photos of the blown barrels up on either 24 Hr. Campfire or The High Road awhile back. The powder catches up to the bullet at around 20" or further out, so barrels shorter than 20" don't usually get this problem. Increasing the bullet weight or changing to a faster powder always makes them go away.

Hatcher did an experiment intentionally blocking the middle of a Springfield (IIRC) barrel with a cast slug and firing a round without a bullet into it. The result was a radial bulge in the barrel centered on the middle of the cast obstruction. So powder inertia can contain a good bit of kinetic energy to transfer.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
RL-19 in .30-06

Great info, UncleNick,

I do have some 180 gr Nosler Partitions that I could reload w/RL-19. As I previously stated, I have quite a few pounds of RL-19 and would like to use it. Any recommended loads for the RL-19 and 180 gr bullets?

Thanks!:)
 

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Thanks Nick. Very good information.

CCA,
My notes show that I tried RL19 and 180gr bullets, for a total of 10 rounds. All were loaded with 56.0gr RL19, CCI250M primers, and with an OAL of 3.200". The best group was 1", dead center, 1" low.

The bullet was Nosler 180gr Partition SP-flat. For that bullet, I have settled on 44.0 IMR4064, CCI200 primers, and an OAL of 3.335. Best group was .506". The rifle is a 700ADL 24" barrel. The time for both powders was late winter and early spring.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Rl-19 & .30-06

I'm a little confused here. Pizgah's comments seem to be on par with Nosler Reloading Manual #3 which shows 61.5 gr RL-19 to be a max but most accurate load for the 150 gr bullet in .30-06. Nosler jumps to RL-22 for the 180 gr bullet. I'm shooting two 22" barrel rifles, a 700 ADL and a Browning Safari FN Mauser. Both shoot factory 150 gr Core Locks into 1-1/2", but I'm sure handloads would be more accurate.

My hunting buddy is shooting 57 gr RL-19 behind a 130 gr bullet in his .270 Win & producing 1/4" groups. I was hoping to do something silmilar with one of these two .30-06's.:eek:
 

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Same as before. And 61.5 frains is a lot of powder (in grains) to push a little bullet. A lot is wasted. QuickLOAD shows just 53 grains of Reloader 15 getting you in the same pressure and velocity range. 52.6 grains of IMR4895 gets you the same thing. You see the the trend, lower charges and better charge weight-to-performance ratio. It's a clue that your powder choice is slow.

The .270 is a different animal. As you get a smaller diameter bullet with respect to the case volume, the expansion (growth in the volume the powder is burning in) per inch of bullet travel decreases. This means the powder is effectively more confined during the burn, which allows a slower powder to build pressure better. You may have noticed, for example, than when you get to straight wall cases, like the .45-70, where the expansion per inch of bullet travel is a much larger percentage of the case powder volume, faster powders have to be used. Pistol powders are all pretty quick for this reason. The powder has to burn fast enough so its growing gas volume stays ahead of the expanding burning volume, or it can't grow pressure enough to burn well and make enough gas to propel the bullet well.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Certainly makes sense, unclenick. I appreciate the advice. Do you anticipate any problems with the 180 gr partition? I'm still trying to use up this Reloader 19.:eek:
 

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Certainly makes sense, unclenick. I appreciate the advice. Do you anticipate any problems with the 180 gr partition? I'm still trying to use up this Reloader 19.:eek:

CC,

Why not split the difference? My 30-06 loves 165gr bullets. I use IMR 4350, but see no reason why Rel-19 woudn't give excellent results with the 165s too. I hunt NC deer with my '06 and the 165s were my first chioce for long range accuracy.
 

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You should be able to do better with the 180's. QuickLOAD thinks you need a compressed load to get up into the full pressure range. Ballistic efficiency in the 25-26% range is still lower than Hatcher's 29-30% preference, but the heavier bullet does play more nicely with it than with the 150.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
.30-06 & rl-19

Had to set the old .30-06s aside for a while guys and contemplate your comments. Thanks so much for the advice as it was both thought provoking and convincing. I now feel that RL-19 is too slow for the '06 as you pointed out, unless I go to heavier bullets.

Unfortunately, I do have 500 .308 diam 150gr Nosler Accubonds that typically has provided excellent results on deer and antelope. And although I also have quite a bit of RL-19, another powder would be the more appropriate option. Recommendations have been 4350, RL-15 and 4064. May I bother you for your choice and why? I'm attempting to find an accurate load in the 2900 fps range.

Thanks!:)
 

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Every gun likes a different load, so just find a lower end charge to start, and then work up incrementally until you like what you see. RL19 is a pretty forgiving powder and should be able to worked up in no less than .5 gr. increments in the 30-06 without encountering pressure spikes. As for RL19 and 30-06, I have had very good results with that combination. In all the actions I've run it in, I see best accuracy and top end velocities, at the upper end of the charge table though.

With a 150 gr. projectile, you should be able to lay down some awesome velocity and accuracy, great for long range deer and antelope hunting. As for velocity, you will be able to easily get up in the 3000 fps range with that combination.

I have also used RL22, IMR-4350, H1000, but RL19 and IMR-4350 have performed best for me.

Submoa
 

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CCAguns,

Of the powders you listed, IMR 4064 is a favorite of mine in both .308 and .30-06 for match loads. At normal load pressures it has low change in fps/grain compared to some others, making it less sensitive to temperature and other sources of pressure excursion, like charge throwing error. It also has pretty good bulk, and should fill the case around 95% at a maximum load. It is more efficient with a 150 grain bullet than IMR 4350 is. It's maximum loads with a 150 achieve the same velocities in Hodgdon's test data, but gets you there with about 12% lower charge weight. That means it will have about 12% lower muzzle pressure acting on the bullet base as it exits. With some bullets, particularly boat tail bullets, than can affect group size on target.
 

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After working up a load for my three 30-06 rifles with Rel 17 I have not used any other powder with 150 gr bullets.57 gr Rel 17 and Hornady 150 gr GMX gives me right at 3000 fps out of my Rem 721, and excellent accuracy out of my 721,Remington Model 30 and Customized 03-A3 Springfield .
 
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