Is it possible to load different brands of bullets of the same weights? For instance, I found on hodgdon reload data that some of their bullets that they show is Nosler 200 gr. JHP. Can I use Hornady 200 gr HP-XTP as long as I seat the bullet at OAL at their spec?
winraider
I do...
I use jacketed bullet data for cast boolits of the same weight or close...
Also, if if have data for a say 150 grain bullet and I am loading a 140 grain bullet, I use the 150 grain data on the low end and work up. That is for the SAME CARTRIDGE of course...
Some will cringe at this reply, but hey, I've had no problems for nearly 45 years...
Good-luck...BCB
I use jacketed bullet data for cast boolits of the same weight or close...
Also, if if have data for a say 150 grain bullet and I am loading a 140 grain bullet, I use the 150 grain data on the low end and work up. That is for the SAME CARTRIDGE of course...
Some will cringe at this reply, but hey, I've had no problems for nearly 45 years...
Good-luck...BCB
There are always differences, of course, when changing types of bullets, weights, seating depths, powders, primers, cases, et., al.
Most of these changes can be allowed for with a little common sense as BCB indicated.
As for changing the same weight bullet by the same manufacturer, this will normally not be a problem. Indeed, Barnes often will list the same loading recommendations for 2 or more of their bullets, and if asked about data for a bullet not yet published, they will advise using the same load as for an identical weight bullet already listed.
The main consideration is in the bearing surface and type of bullet. Longer bearing surfaces will mean more friction down the bore until fully engraved due to more contact with the bore. A solid bullet isn't going to compress as much to be engraved, especially with a tough jacket, and cause more resistance.
The difference between the Hornady JHP and the HP-XTP are minute and should offer no problem using the same data.
Most of these changes can be allowed for with a little common sense as BCB indicated.
As for changing the same weight bullet by the same manufacturer, this will normally not be a problem. Indeed, Barnes often will list the same loading recommendations for 2 or more of their bullets, and if asked about data for a bullet not yet published, they will advise using the same load as for an identical weight bullet already listed.
The main consideration is in the bearing surface and type of bullet. Longer bearing surfaces will mean more friction down the bore until fully engraved due to more contact with the bore. A solid bullet isn't going to compress as much to be engraved, especially with a tough jacket, and cause more resistance.
The difference between the Hornady JHP and the HP-XTP are minute and should offer no problem using the same data.
As noted above anytime you change a component in a load there is the potential for some change in the pressure it generates so you'll want to back down a bit and work back up.
For a mid range load, the differences won't cause serious risks, but for a maximum load a substitution can push it over the top into the unsafe range.
I'm not a believer in using minimum loads in some calibers as small charges in some cartridges can cause some pressure spikes. If the load data on the page is blank in the lower velocity squares where other powders are sowing loads, that's a major warning sign not to drop below the minimum load for that powder and I generally avoid that minimum load as well.
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In some cases, a bullet will be referenced generically, such as the "Hornady JHP" versus "Hornady XTP" example noted above. You have to consider the source being used to determine what that might mean.
- It may be old data referencing an older discontinued bullet, and with Hornady their older manuals tend to be hotter and less conservative than the newer ones, so it's a potential case of both a change in bullet and a load that may be a bot stouter than is prudent with that newer bullet. Use caution.
- Alternatively if it's a third party publisher, you may find they are using Hornady data but are using a generic "Hornady JHP" to reference "XTP" data to enable them to republish the data. I've seen this in some publications where they may be using the data from an older but not ancient source like the Hornady 6th or 8th edition with an XTP bullet, but call it a "JHP" to avoid any legal infringement issues.
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If you talk to ballistic technicians at different companies and ask the same question the OP did, you'll get the same basic answer - bullets of the same basic design, weight and diameter will vary in their "stickiness" due to differences in gilding metal formulation, core alloy hardness, and nearing surface. They'll advise you to back off and work back up when changing bullets.
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You'll often see load data where all the data for a given weight is on the same page (Hornady is a great example) and in that case you can assume one of the bullets may be the limiting factor in the maximum load column, where the others may still have a bit more room left for development. But since you don't know what bullet that is, you need to stay within the published data.
Powder company data often has even more generic load data with min and max loads for a specified weight of either cast or jacketed bullet with no specified brand of bullet. That data, by necessity, has to be more conservative, and similarly, you'll want to approach their max loads with more caution as you are dealing with more unknowns.
For a mid range load, the differences won't cause serious risks, but for a maximum load a substitution can push it over the top into the unsafe range.
I'm not a believer in using minimum loads in some calibers as small charges in some cartridges can cause some pressure spikes. If the load data on the page is blank in the lower velocity squares where other powders are sowing loads, that's a major warning sign not to drop below the minimum load for that powder and I generally avoid that minimum load as well.
----
In some cases, a bullet will be referenced generically, such as the "Hornady JHP" versus "Hornady XTP" example noted above. You have to consider the source being used to determine what that might mean.
- It may be old data referencing an older discontinued bullet, and with Hornady their older manuals tend to be hotter and less conservative than the newer ones, so it's a potential case of both a change in bullet and a load that may be a bot stouter than is prudent with that newer bullet. Use caution.
- Alternatively if it's a third party publisher, you may find they are using Hornady data but are using a generic "Hornady JHP" to reference "XTP" data to enable them to republish the data. I've seen this in some publications where they may be using the data from an older but not ancient source like the Hornady 6th or 8th edition with an XTP bullet, but call it a "JHP" to avoid any legal infringement issues.
----
If you talk to ballistic technicians at different companies and ask the same question the OP did, you'll get the same basic answer - bullets of the same basic design, weight and diameter will vary in their "stickiness" due to differences in gilding metal formulation, core alloy hardness, and nearing surface. They'll advise you to back off and work back up when changing bullets.
---
You'll often see load data where all the data for a given weight is on the same page (Hornady is a great example) and in that case you can assume one of the bullets may be the limiting factor in the maximum load column, where the others may still have a bit more room left for development. But since you don't know what bullet that is, you need to stay within the published data.
Powder company data often has even more generic load data with min and max loads for a specified weight of either cast or jacketed bullet with no specified brand of bullet. That data, by necessity, has to be more conservative, and similarly, you'll want to approach their max loads with more caution as you are dealing with more unknowns.
There is no reason you cannot use data interchangably in most cases, yet the XTP's and the Barnes solids require some caution.
In the Lee Modern Reloading #2, there are separate loads listed for XTP's, Barnes, and certain other manufacturers' bullets. The reasoning for XTP's is that because of the large hollow cavity in the front, the bullets' bearing surface below the cannelure is longer. In those instances were the same powder can be found to have been tested in both in the Lee manual, in general the max loads for the XTP's is -1 grain less than the generic jacketed.
Of course, no one starts out at the maximum load, do they?!?!?
In the Lee Modern Reloading #2, there are separate loads listed for XTP's, Barnes, and certain other manufacturers' bullets. The reasoning for XTP's is that because of the large hollow cavity in the front, the bullets' bearing surface below the cannelure is longer. In those instances were the same powder can be found to have been tested in both in the Lee manual, in general the max loads for the XTP's is -1 grain less than the generic jacketed.
Of course, no one starts out at the maximum load, do they?!?!?
I had a dear friend who mistakenly thought you read reloading manuals from right to left. He wore out a bullet puller every few months.Of course, no one starts out at the maximum load, do they?!?!?
At the Nosler spec or the Hornady spec? If you're going to use Hornady bullets, I would suggest you seat to Hornady specs.
That came across my mind also on the oal spec between the Nosler and hornady bullets. I check into my Hornady load data book and the oal on the Nosler and hornady bullets are the same. The only difference I seen is that the Nosler bullet were .429 and the hornady bullet is .430. This is for my 44 Mag.
2 DIFFERENT ?'s
the powder charge wt for an = wt bullet, I'd say mostly yes, but advise to look at as many manuals as possible and start low & work up. This DOES NOT apply to cast bullets! Do not even think of using the same powder charge with them. Seating depth is a whole other story and NOT INTERCHANGEABLE as bullet shapes/lengths can vary so greatly.
the powder charge wt for an = wt bullet, I'd say mostly yes, but advise to look at as many manuals as possible and start low & work up. This DOES NOT apply to cast bullets! Do not even think of using the same powder charge with them. Seating depth is a whole other story and NOT INTERCHANGEABLE as bullet shapes/lengths can vary so greatly.
I recommend caution in using one bullet manufacturer's loading data for another manufacturer's bullet. I have been handloading for nearly 40 years. Each manufacturer has a slightly different shape and size to their bullet. If you look in the manufacturer's manuals, what may be a starting load for one manufacturer could be a max load, or beyond, for another. Most of the manufacturers will have some loading data on their web sites. If you can't find anything, I recommend starting with the lowest powder charge you can find in the published literature for your weight bullet and cartridge. Then carefully increase the powder charge until you begin to see pressure signs, then back off to one of your last 2 or 3 loads below that. Keep in mind, that even something as simple as changing primers can cause an unwanted jump in pressure, so stick with the same primer brand throughout.
What the others have said but you MUST always take into account the bullets you are looking at and their construction. The .458 SOCOM is a perfect example with 300 gr. bullets.
A max load for most if not all JHP 300 gr. loads is X gr.
However, if you change it over to a Barnes TSX solid copper bullet of 300 gr., the max load is roughly x-2 gr.
And if you switch over to the longer and boat tailed Barnes TTSX bullet, also of 300 gr, the max load is roughly x-4 gr.
So if you were to jump in and load up the TTSX bullet using JHP data, you can be over maximum load right from the start load.
A max load for most if not all JHP 300 gr. loads is X gr.
However, if you change it over to a Barnes TSX solid copper bullet of 300 gr., the max load is roughly x-2 gr.
And if you switch over to the longer and boat tailed Barnes TTSX bullet, also of 300 gr, the max load is roughly x-4 gr.
So if you were to jump in and load up the TTSX bullet using JHP data, you can be over maximum load right from the start load.
An example from the Hornady Manual, 9th edition and Nosler Manual, 6th edition, for 200 gr JHP/XTP:
Bullet Powder Starting Max
Hornady AA 9 20.5 24.5
Nosler AA 9 22.5 23.5
Hornady lists 22.1 gr as producing 1400 fps, 23.7 gr producing 1500 fps, and 24.5 at 1550.
Nosler reports 22.5 gr produces 1631 fps and 23.5 gr produces 1662, so you can see the different pressure curves produced by the difference in bullets.
Bullet Powder Starting Max
Hornady AA 9 20.5 24.5
Nosler AA 9 22.5 23.5
Hornady lists 22.1 gr as producing 1400 fps, 23.7 gr producing 1500 fps, and 24.5 at 1550.
Nosler reports 22.5 gr produces 1631 fps and 23.5 gr produces 1662, so you can see the different pressure curves produced by the difference in bullets.
There is also another thing you need to look at is to make sure that the cart. will chamber into your gun also.i have went by the data on reloading and the gun I was loading for end up the bullet did not want to chamber ,so I had to change the OAL and also lower the amount of powder that was the starter.Had it happened with a cast boolit for my 9mm.After all said and done ,it was right on target .I say make a dumb round and make sure it will chamber before you load anything. That will help .I also done what others said about usen the same data for same weight bullet or when it is about 2gr off but use the starter load for test rounds and go from there like others stated.
You can get large pressure spikes between different guns with the same load.
I have a Savage model 25 in 223 that shoots one particular load very well and is quiet safe in the pressure department. Then I have a Savage model 12 in the same caliber that has the heavy fluted barrel and a very tight chamber that cannot handle the same load, just too much pressure! Every thing else being equal the difference in chamber dimensions makes all the difference!
I have a Savage model 25 in 223 that shoots one particular load very well and is quiet safe in the pressure department. Then I have a Savage model 12 in the same caliber that has the heavy fluted barrel and a very tight chamber that cannot handle the same load, just too much pressure! Every thing else being equal the difference in chamber dimensions makes all the difference!
Not sure what the issue would be using jacketed bullet load data for cast bullets? Given appropriate alloy, proper crimping etc.- in my limited experience, a given charge of virtually any powder appears to produce lower pressures with cast v. jacketed bullets of the same weight. Something about the alloy shaping itself to the bore easier than jacketing material or something?
I'm surprised that nobody stated the physical difference of bullet shapes. How much of the bullet contacts the barrel and will reflect a difference in pressure as it takes more pressure to move one with more resistance because of more barrel contact.
As I believe I noticed start at the bottom of the load and work up to where you NEED it, being very careful about Max loads. You can get away many times, but then it bites you. It's best to start low and work up watching case variations to ensure you not running too much pressure.
If you have a chronograph it's the best for this type of work, if not use the physical effects of the case to determine when you've gone over, hopefully you will never see that...
Jack
As I believe I noticed start at the bottom of the load and work up to where you NEED it, being very careful about Max loads. You can get away many times, but then it bites you. It's best to start low and work up watching case variations to ensure you not running too much pressure.
If you have a chronograph it's the best for this type of work, if not use the physical effects of the case to determine when you've gone over, hopefully you will never see that...
Jack
Physics says yes. Safety says, 'maybe". Assuming (that word ever get you in trouble?) ALL other details are the same, and not loading to the max end of the chart, it is very unlikey that you would get into any trouble in this manner. But not impossible. Although I can't come up with an example in my head that would do it.
Just follow basic protocols, start below the max loads, keep all the other variables as consistent as you can, and proceed with caution. Just like any load you're not 100% familiar with. Physics are very seldom wrong, but in the case of a small explosion going off in your hand, or right next to your face, better to be cautious than foolhardy. It's those variables that we can't control, or don't realize, that cause physics to say "Dang, I never seen it do that!" I got a rather unique copy of physics, the Fine Country Gentleman version.
Just follow basic protocols, start below the max loads, keep all the other variables as consistent as you can, and proceed with caution. Just like any load you're not 100% familiar with. Physics are very seldom wrong, but in the case of a small explosion going off in your hand, or right next to your face, better to be cautious than foolhardy. It's those variables that we can't control, or don't realize, that cause physics to say "Dang, I never seen it do that!" I got a rather unique copy of physics, the Fine Country Gentleman version.
There really isn't as much need to go for max loads when you consider terminal ballistics. I was a go for the max load kind of guy 35 years ago. Now I save the heavy loads for JHPs that need every extra fps to expand at long range. A .44 Special loaded to 1000 fps with 250 grain cast bullets will shoot nearly through very large animals. The same is true with a .308 Winchester with 165 grain bullets at 2800 fps. Is a .44 Magnum or 300 Win Mag a great gun? Of course, but that final 100 fps or so is seldom necessary for a successful hunt. As T. Jeff Poole stated, "Deer don't seem to care one way or the other."
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