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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
ok so first off just found this forum and it looks like ill be around here alot lol. now on to my issue. i have a rem 700 .270 win that im wanting to get built. this will be my first custom gun. i want something capable out to 800 yards. i have looked at the mc millian A5 or A3 stocks and thats what im liking right now. now on to barrels. i havent done alot of research but it seems from what i have read that cut rifling is what i want. what is the pros and cons of cut rifling vs button rifling and the other types? who is a good barrel manufacturer? now on to the bullet. i like the 270 for deer and thats what ill be after. i was wanting to go to 308 but it seems that their are feeding issues when using the longer action with the 308? is the 270 as capable as the 308? also are their any other cartriges that just excell at long range shots but that are still in the recoil range of the 270? thanks in advance.
 

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Logger,
The .270 has the .308 beat in every way. You want a good rifle?
You have one. The .270 is capable of taking anything in North America
except you wouldn't use it for dangerous game. You certainly wouldn't
use a .308 for that either. All your rifle needs is a good scope.

Zeke
 

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There are lots of good barrel makers out there just depends on how much you want to spend. But shilen,Hart, Lijia and Douglas are a some.As for the long range lite recoil deer rifle a 264 Win Mag, 257 Wby, 25-06 are all very good choices. :DJust my thoughts.

Hoeram
 

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Well, really neither one of these have enough energy at 800 yards for deer. The minimum amount of energy according to the wildlife biologist that you need to humanely harvest a deer is 1000 foot pounds. The 270 nor the 308 will have that much at 800 yards. The 308 action is shorter than the 270 is. I've never heard of anyone having problems with chambering with a 308. The 270 action is 30-06 length. One of the 300 calibers would really need to be what you would use out to 800 yards. There's the 300 Winchester Short Mag, 300 Weatherby Mag, 300 Remington Ultra Mag, and the 300 Winchester Mag. Mcmillan does make a great stock as does H.S. Precision and Bell and Carlson. As for as the barrel goes you will get a lot of opinions and differences most likely on the type of rifling used to make the barrel. I really wouldn't worry so much about that because there's so many things that go into making an accurate barrel and all the different type's of rifling will do fine as long as everything else is done right. At the top of the list i would say Shilen, Broughton 5C, Hart, Lilja, and Douglas XX are several that are very good. You want a bullet with high weight retention and a high ballistic coefficient. Some of those would be Nosler- E-Tip, Accuband, Partition, also Barnes- Triple Shock X, Tipped Triple Shick X, and MRX, the Federal loaded Trophy Bonded Tipped and Winchester's XP3 are just some that will do fine. All of the 300's will have more recoil than the 270 or 308 but at 800 yards you will need the extra power.
 

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The 270 Win has long been my favorite for deer. I have three of them. My favorite is a remington 700 Boone &Crockett model with a 25 1/2" Shilen SS barrel and jewell trigger topped with a 4.5-14 Zeiss.
Its a shooter and I would be hard pressed to ask for more for deer sized game at close, medium or long range.
I still prefer the old 130 gr Nosler partitions. Why change and ruin a good thing!
Good luck, you have a good start.
 

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Wow! 800 yards on a deer, can't you get any closer?

I don't have any thing against shooting paper at that range, but you owe it to the animal to remove as many variables before shooting at it. At 800 to many things can go wrong and too many chances of it getting away if wounded. just my 2 cents.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
sorry for the mis information guys. im going to use this thing out to maby 500 on deer and to 800+ on paper and prarie dogs. last year i shot a praie dog at at 700 with a 220 swift but i had some issues dealing with the wind. so im hoping a heavier bullet will help. also yea i dont hardly hunt deer with a rifle anymore. mainly still hunting with a compound is what i spend my season doing. much more fun that blasting them with a rifle. so how far can i stretch out a 270 before it goes subsonic?
 

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If the 270 Winchester is what you want, don't let anyone tell you it can't shoot targets at 1,000 yards or deer at whatever range you feel is ethical. (That's a whole different debate...)

Forget about 130gr bullets and focus on 140 or 150, if you want to shoot really long ranges. For the best retained energy at 500+ yards, I would heartily recommend a 140 grain bullet in a boat-tail design. If it proves to be highly accurate in your gun, you would be hard-pressed to do better than the 140gr Nosler Accubond. You'll want a barrel that is at least 24" long, giving you a muzzle velocity of 3,000fps, when fed a maximum charge of 4831 or maybe RL22. With this load, you still be above the speed of sound at 1,000 yards and retain 1,000 ft/lbs of energy out to 750 yards. More important than simple energy numbers, you will also still have 1,800fps of velocity at 750 yards, which is what Nosler recommends for their AB bullets to expand properly.

Long-range shooting is a science unto itself and is entirely different than the guy who sights in at 100 yards and heads for the woods. If you practice extensively, learn to use the necessary equipment, and remember that hunting is not shooting, the 270 Winchester is an excellent choice for the goals you listed. With all that being said, I believe I'd choose a 270WSM, for what you're wanting to do. The same "numbers" in a short-action rifle and a case geometry that lends itself to accurate loads might make it easier to get where you wanna be. ;)

Check my signature and you'll find I'm a 270 fan, and have my own thoughts on hunting at long range.
 

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the only thing i'm going to add is to consider the 280 if you handload, there are some great 160+ gr bullets available... i particularly like the 162gr sst and sierra offers a 168gr match bullet that i'm sure is a dandy.

just a thought...
 

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i would aggree with broom about going to the mag..not that ive any experience going even close to that range shooting..for me to hit a coyote size target at 800 yrds would be pure luck..but good luck with you re choices.. if you work at it long enough ,im sure you will have success..
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
hmm well i just talked to the gunsmith that i will be using and he seemed to think that a 6.5x284 was going to work better than a 270 for what i want. what do youall think about this round?
 

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Cut rifle barrels like Kreiger are excellent barrels, may take a little longer to break in but will last longer than the button rifled barrels.
I have a 270 WSM w/ a 26" # 5 Hart barrel that shoots really well w/ 150 Sierras it has a point blank range for deer at 375 yds makes 3100 fps using RE-22. Don't think I would try for deer past that myself. The 6.5 X284 is an excellent long range cartridge, I had one but changed it to the 6.5/06 and really like it, it's a little more accurate than the 270 WSM
 

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As mentioned, if that's the cartridge you want, go for it. You will read crap about it's not a good cartridge because of the lack of quality/accurate bullets. It's just that BS. You may not find high quality target bullets but there are tons of hunting bullets available that will shoot just as good as anything alse. That is if you reload.

Saturday, FedEx just droped off my new 270 barrel I've had on order for a couple of months from McGowen. I ordered their #4 Sporter weight and I think it cost me $271.32 by the time it made it to my door. I did order it deep chambered so that added about $60 to it.

I've use McGowen barrels a a few hunting rifles that I did not want to do a full blown blue printing/accurizing on and for an inexspensive, quality barrel, McGowen is hard to beat. They also stand behind them. I've had one barrel that started giving me problems with extreme copper fouling after about 150 rounds, sent the barreled action back to them to check it and they sent it back with a new barrel. I've never had problems shooting at least .5 MOA with their barrels,

If you plan to go full out on your build, having the bolt sleeved or new bolt and the action reamed and trued, and all the other work that goes into accurizing then I would recommend going with the Krieger barrel.

You do relize you are looking at a year or more wait and close to $3,000 for a full custom build is you get it built by a quality smith. It's a seven month wait just for a Krieger barrel.

I will also say that if you are wanting to do a full blown build, the 6.5 x 284 will shoot rings around the 270. If you are wanting to build a nice hunting rifle capable of good accuracy for occassional target practice, the 270 will do a great job.
 

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The 270 Win will do fine on deer out to 500 yards. The 270 WSM would be a good choice to consider, it will give you more velocity and energy over the 270 Win and would stretch your range a little farther where deer are concerned. You can check for yourself from wildlife biologist that you do need a minimum of 1000 foot pounds of energy to properly and humanely harvest a deer. The 6.5-284 Norma is a great round for long range shooting. All three of the above will stay supersonic past 1000 yards. At least a 24 if not a 26 inch barrel. Good luck
 

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$3000 for a full blown custom? My Benchrest gunsmith built 700's cost
$450 for the action usually a new ADL rifle, $250 for a Shilen barrel accurize the action $150.00, Chamber the barrel $150.00, Pillar bed the stock $150.00 a stock is variable but got several laminates were about $125.00 each.
Total is $1125.00 for a rifle that shoots under a 1/2"
I have several
358 Winchester 700 Remington w/ muzzle break that was an additional $150.00 originally a 243 never shot
6.5/06 700 Remington w/ Jewell trigger w/ muzzle break built as a Senaro originally a 270 never shot (for long range hunting) 1/2"@200
22 PPC Remington bought used for 450 already accurized
6mm/250 Remington was a 260 Varmint laminate my first real rifle
and now waiting on a 375 Weatherby w/ muzzlebreak this one will cost a little more as it's a blued barrel
yes it can take 6-12 months but you will never get one if you don't start
My 270WSM is a Winchester and was not accurized so it was less but is in a Houge pillar bedded stock (medium range 300-400 yds) max
Now if you buy a custom action like a Bat that will cost you an additional $ 700.00 so it may be close to $2000.00 but won't shoot any better than the 700's
 

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Don't get wrapped up in the energy nonsense. If the bullet you are using won't expand, then it pretty well doesn't matter. The figures that people quote make a huge assumption that the bullets will expand / hold together in the manner needed.

With most soft points, expansion gets iffy below 2,000fps.

I'd use that figure to determine the absolute max range that you should even consider shooting at a game animal, and work your way back from that depending on how accurate the gun is, and how much you practice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
hmm im just wondering how many foot lbs a 222 makes at 350 yards? i shot a deer this year at that distance and it went down within 20 feet. perfectly ethical shot i believe. now on to the cost. i think im going to go with a broughton barrel 26 inches long. this is looking like it will be around 335. im going back and forth on getting it fluted. its 175 extra. now as far as my stock i think im going mcmillian. that will be around 700. and then getting my action squared up and barrel chamber cut and threaded and lugs lapped will be 235. and im going to see if i can make my stock trigger work. so thats like 1270 add in tax and shipping and call it 1350. right now im un decided on my scope. maby leupold mark 4 or burris black diamond but i hafto do some more research on scopes. havent really checked them out real good....
 

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No one said less than a 1000 ftlbs would not kill a deer. Its a matter of humanely killing any animal you hunt. A 350 yard shot with a 222 could have been a disaster as well as a quick kill. Your shot placement must have been good. Once the bullet left any number of things could have happened that you can't control such as the deer moving and a gut shot, or missing all vitals. The issue of energy is not nonsense, it is an important issue to consider, that's what I'm saying. Talk to a wildlife biologist or wildlife expert. We all have different standards and to each his own. Good luck with your new gun
 

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Some folks also throw around the number of 600 ft/lbs to kill a deer, but there again, they are presuming certain variables. Mike is right; depending on what you're shooting and at what distance, "energy" is one of the very last things to be concerned about. Accuracy, meaning pin-point placement, will cover a lot of sins, when it comes to harvesting big game. After you hit exactly what you're aiming at, penetration and expansion (for pointed, small-to-medium-bore bullets) are more important than raw energy numbers.

With all of that being said, a 222 at 350 yards is not a reliable killer of big game. It might do a good job 60 or 70% of the time, but for dedicated big game hunters, that just isn't enough. A 270 will have more than 5 times that much energy, at 350 yards. It will do the job nearly 100% of the time, with reasonable bullet placement. Just my 2 cents...
 
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