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Discussion Starter #1
Hello everyone! I'm new to the forum but it seems to be my final option to find out whats going on with my rifle. Its a bit of a story but please bare with me.

A few years ago I bought a brand new Remington 700 CDL in .300 RUM to use to hunt elk in Colorado. I put a Leupold VX-3 8.5-25X50 LONG RANGE on it along with the leupold rings and mounts. I sighted it in at 100 yards and was able to hold a 2-3" group using Nosler Trophy Grade 180 gr. AccuBond. (I've heard they can do better but that was enough for hunting). Ironically enough I never actually took it hunting but I would practice target shooting to keep me comfortable with it. Where I used to shoot it I only had access to a 100 yard range. I have sinced moved and now have ranges of over 1000 yards. This is where the problem comes in. I decided I wanted to zero the gun for 300 - 500 yards seeing how thats reasonable hunting distance for Colorado. I started the target at 100 yards. Shooting off of sand bags I had no problem holding 2'' groups or better. Then I moved it back to 150 yards where I was holding 2.5'' groups. I moved the target to 250 yards and all of the sudden I couldnt even hit paper. I finally adjusted the scope to the point where they were on paper but there was absolutly no consistancy. Some shots would go high left while others would go low right with no grouping at all. Ive had other people shoot the gun with similar results. Moving the target closer I was able to get my groups again.

At first I was told that I must be flinching too much but using the bags Im comfortable enough with the gun that it shoudnt be so inconsistant. Ive shot other rifles and had no problem keeping on target from 300-600 yards. Ive checked the scope and mounting hardwear and everything is tight. I cleaned the **** out of the barrel and went to the range again. Same problem at 200-250 yards. I've read that it could be the way the gun is bedded or that I didnt break in the barrel correctly, (I didnt even know about break in till after I started looking into the problem). Ive put 60 to 80 rounds through this gun. Would not breaking it in properly really cause that dramatic of a difference? I have multiple other rifles that were never "broke-in" and have no issues at medium to long range. I knew the magnum calibers run hot so I always let it cool down between 3 group shots and cleaned it after shooting.

Im not looking for competition grade accuracy so I dont want to spend thousands of dollars on custom work to the gun. I just wanted a long range hunting rifle with the stopping power for big game. Im not sure what route I should take with this gun so any advice or recommendations are appreciated.

Thank you!
 

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Welcome to the forum.

To begin, a 2" group at 100yds will not be acceptable for any type of extended range hunting. If your 2" at 100, you will be 4" at 200, and at 500 you will be at 10 inches. 1000 yds and your at 20" if you do your part. That simply will not do! I have a hard time with even a MOA on big game at 1k which is a 10" group. But lets not start a flaming session on LR hunting. I would start by trying a different brand of ammo, since I assume you don't hand load. Also check your crown on your rifle to ensure it is not damaged. Next check to see if your barrel is free floated. You can accomplish this with a dollar bill. Slide a dollar between the barrel and the stock starting at the fore end. You should be able to slide it all the way up to action or close to it without any resistance.

Next step would be to loosen your action screws and use a torque wrench and apply the proper amount of torque to both screws.

Try this and I hope it helps. Also, one thing to consider is the 300 RUM is pretty heavy on the recoil especially in the lighter weight set up you have. My guess is, even though its hard to admit it, is that the recoil and improper shooting technique is leading to the opening of your groups beyond 100 yds. Your 2" groups suggest the gun doesn't like the ammo your feeding it, but them opening up a lot after that is most likely shooter technique. Remember don't expect 2" groups at 200 if your only shooting 2" groups at 100. How are you shooting? Bipod? Sand bags? Lead Sled? Bench or prone?
 

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How do you clean the rifle, from the muzzle or from the breech? Either way, do not forget to have the crown checked and redone. Also, I'd look at bullets of different weights, both below and above 180gr as some rifles show a pronounced preference for one weight over others.
 
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Thank you for the quick responses.

To start with I can admit the fact that at 100 yards my 2" groups were probably do to my flinching with the recoil. I have been able to shoot better groups with it but 2" has always been my average. I also understand that the farther the distance the the more that group will open. Now I have no formal training for shooting long range and I can say I don't know the proper technique but I've had success shooting other rifles well over 200 yards and being able to hold groups. Every time I've shot the rifle has been off of Caldwell bags from a table. I could understand it being a shooter problem at 200 yards if I was getting 4" groups but I can't even get that. The problem isn't getting my group smaller at 200 yards, it's getting a group to begin with.

From what I can tell the crown seems to be fine and there is no fowling in the barrel. I always clean it from the breach and only use a brass brush when needed.

The CDL does not have a free floating barrel. Is that something I should have done or leave it the way Remington made it?

I do know reloading is the only way to go when it comes to long range shooting but 300-500 yards doesn't seem too much to ask for out of a higher grade factory ammo. I will look into finding heavier and lighter rounds.
 

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Thank you for the quick responses.

To start with I can admit the fact that at 100 yards my 2" groups were probably do to my flinching with the recoil. I have been able to shoot better groups with it but 2" has always been my average. I also understand that the farther the distance the the more that group will open. Now I have no formal training for shooting long range and I can say I don't know the proper technique but I've had success shooting other rifles well over 200 yards and being able to hold groups. Every time I've shot the rifle has been off of Caldwell bags from a table. I could understand it being a shooter problem at 200 yards if I was getting 4" groups but I can't even get that. The problem isn't getting my group smaller at 200 yards, it's getting a group to begin with.

From what I can tell the crown seems to be fine and there is no fowling in the barrel. I always clean it from the breach and only use a brass brush when needed.

The CDL does not have a free floating barrel. Is that something I should have done or leave it the way Remington made it?

I do know reloading is the only way to go when it comes to long range shooting but 300-500 yards doesn't seem too much to ask for out of a higher grade factory ammo. I will look into finding heavier and lighter rounds.

As someone who shoots Nosler ammo in several different rifles and calibers, I understand your figuring it should shoot well due to the cost. Sometimes rifles will simply just not do as we figure they should. You may well find a lesser priced brand or bullet to shoot better then the high quality Nosler fodder, just the way it goes sometimes. I've used a good bit of ammo made by HSM in the past and I'd suggest looking at a couple of their loads with either Berger or Sierra bullets just as a comparison.

Good Luck!
 

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Elk Whisperer (Super Moderator)
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So we are on the same page:



My 700CDL in 300RUM. It traded into a 700 Sendero SFII, not because I couldn't get it to shoot, but because I wanted the Sendero.

Pictures of your groups will help us diagnose your problem.

My CDL shot poorly at first too. By poorly I mean 1 1/2 moa groups. After free floating the barrel and bedding the recoil lug and torquing the action screws properly it shot 1/2 moa groups with careful reloads (it never saw a factory round)

300RUM barrels tend to heat up quickly, so your groups could be due to heat causing the barrel to react to fore end pressure to change point of impact. Try shooting a cold group by waiting say 15(?) minutes between shots.

My Sendero:



A 500 yard, three shot group from it. (the odd hole is from my 700VSL .243)



RJ
 
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That's some darn good shooting RJ!

Woody, welcome to the forum. First you won't be able to shoot at the ranges you mention not only due to your rifle, but your flinch. Work on getting rid of that and practice with something that won't beat you up. You can always look at other options such as brakes, porting, recoil pads, etc. Find some ammo your rifle likes, get your mechanics down and you should be able to do well. As someone else mentioned, more expensive doesn't mean better with factory ammo and you may find some relatively inexpensive ammo that shoots better.
 

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Elk Whisperer (Super Moderator)
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Thanks M1. I need to tell you the particulars about that group. :D

ALL factory ammo for the 300RUM is EXPENSIVE!!! It starts at $50 and goes up from there!!

Like M1 said, your flinch may be affecting you and you don't realize it. Try this trick: Have someone else "load it" then you shoot it. Close your eyes while at the bench or where ever you are and have them chamber a single round . . . . or not . . . . it will be a surprise!!! I had 't missus do it for me ONCE. She laughed so hard :mad: . . . it's a good thing she's cute ;) It works to get you onto a better technique though, however humorous it might be to others.

Even dry firing while holding site on target can help.

RJ
 
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I hate to say it, but I am pretty darn sure your problem is most likely flinch. Unlike RJ, not all of us are immune to recoil. ;) :D I can shoot a 300 RUM pretty well, but it took a lot of practice and range time. Drying firing helps, as does a really good recoil pad. If your interested in reloading, now would be the time to start. The 300 RUM is a spendy little number, and it wont take you long to pay for your initial investment. That being said, I had a really hard time finding brass for mine, and coupled with the higher recoil and more power than I really needed, I replaced mine with another 300 WM.

If you want to keep it, be sure to try a variety of ammunition for it. Most guns are fairly specific in what they like to shoot well.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks for all the advice!

Next time I go to the range I will be sure to take pictures of the target and post them here. All though I know I still flinch a little, I'm pretty comfortable with the gun for the number of rounds I've put through it. I see a lot of people talk about the 300 rum beating them up but it's honestly never given me a sore shoulder. I'll take all this into consideration and let everyone know how it turns out.
 

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not flinch

I think the answers so far are ignoring important facts Woody is providing. We can't pick and choose. Either he's giving accurate info or he's not.

From the original post:

"I started the target at 100 yards. Shooting off of sand bags I had no problem holding 2'' groups or better. Then I moved it back to 150 yards where I was holding 2.5'' groups. I moved the target to 250 yards and all of the sudden I couldnt even hit paper."

The only thing to clarify there is how large the "paper" is. But 2.5" group at 150 is going to be roughly 3.5" at 250, all other things being equal. And why wouldn't they? I don't think I've ever encountered a shooter who was relatively accurate at one distance but demonstrated a paper-missing flinch at another.

Also from the OP:

"Ive had other people shoot the gun with similar results. Moving the target closer I was able to get my groups again."

And again:

"Ive shot other rifles and had no problem keeping on target from 300-600 yards."

Obviously, this is a person with some long-range experience.

If all these things are true/accurate - and of course we accept they are - then missing paper at 250 yards makes no sense whatsoever.

This won't be a popular answer, and it's likely not correct, but going with the facts provided there's really only one possibility I can come up with: scope

There's very little chance a Leupold vx3 is defective, especially considering its performance at the other distances, but at this time - again, considering the factors given - I would mount a different scope before I did anything else.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thank you jakesnake66 for actually reading everything I wrote. I used a identical target to what recoil junky posted. While I admit I'm no expert shooter or master marksman, I've grown up shooting rifles my whole life and while I'm newer to long range shooting the principles I grew up with seem to hold the same. That being said 250 yards can hardly be considered long range. Is there anything I can do to check that the scope is working properly or do I need to send it back to leupold?
 

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Elk Whisperer (Super Moderator)
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T Is there anything I can do to check that the scope is working properly or do I need to send it back to leupold?
Stick it on a known shooter and see what happens. Don't worry about sighting it in, just how it shoots groups. If it's still all over the place then you know it's the scope.

That's the nice thing about Weaver rings and bases :D Scope from 300RUM fits sevumag fits 35 Whelen fits 25-06 :cool:

RJ
 
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