[Wagner]

Hey guys,

Im a newcomer to this forum but have used this site for research. I recently purchased a new remington 700 sps stainless in 25-06. Ive been out shooting with it several times in the last two weeks. I cannot get it to shoot any better than a 4" group. It has been very disappointing. Ive kept the gun very clean as i do with all my rifles. Ive tried four different reloads varying from 90 grain hollowpoints to 117 grain hornady sst's. I have also tried two factory loads; 100 grain core lokt, and 110 grain accubond. Im starting to think i may have just gotten lucky on that single 3 shot 4" group because all other groupings have been punching holes all over the paper and some not evening hitting it! I put a nikon monarch scope 3-12 power on the gun so one wouldnt think that is the problem but who knows. I have also had a buddy shoot it just to make sure it wasnt me. Ive been careful to wait a couple minutes between shots and am miticulous in my reloading procedure. Im taking it to a trusted gunsmith in town to see what he thinks but any help, tips, or any info will be greatly appreciated!

Thanks

 

[RifleFan]

Two things:

1. I would check the scope mounts to see if anything is lose.
2. If the scope mount is good, I would call Remington and have the rifle returned to have them check it out. They typically have great customer service.

 

[Range Junkie]

Yep, sounds like a scope mount issue or possibly the internals of the scope itself have come loose.

 

[Wagner]

The Scope is two years old. I took it off my 300 wsm and bought a new scope for that. The 300 shoots great with both scopes. So it has proven to hold a zero. Rings and bases are tight and trued to the gun. Im still not leaving the possibility that it might be the scope. Gonna swap scopes and hit the range this week after my gunsmith looks at it. Thanks alot for the tips! Has anyone had any problems like this? I have a bad feeling i just got a lemon!?

 

[Davers]

You might check the bedding as it might just need to be Glassbeded, also check the trigger pull. I've been having accuracy issues with my new Ruger Hawkyeye "ultralight" in .308 and suspect the bedding.

 

[kudu40]

Good luck with getting Remington to do anything with it. I recently bought a Remington M700 MLR Police sniper rifle. It wouldn't shoot worth a darn, so I took it to 2 world known rifle builders and had them take a look at it. They both told me the barrel was not finished properly. I contacted Remington and couldn't get anyone to show any interest in correcting the problem. I had a friend in the industry call one of the head honchos at Remington and he finally got action. I delivered it to their Ilion NY plant and waited months; and months; and months. No one contacted me, so I called them. They told me they fixed the problem and shipped the rifle via UPS to me a few months ago. I asked for the UPS tracking number and they couldn't find it. I contacted UPS and they had no record of delivering it to me. I raised some he-- with a supervisor and after a few days they found the rifle. I got it back, mounted a Leupold MkIV scope on it and it still wont shoot. I have 7 M700's that shoot great (all sporters), the one "long range sniper rifle" I buy from them won't shoot 4 inches at 100 Yds. and they say that that is acceptable.
As I said before; good luck!

Kudu40

 

[MikeG]

A 4" group does not really sound like a bedding issue. I would be suspicious of the barrel, if the scope and mounts are good.

 

[Davers]

+1 on the bedding issue. I believe it is far more likely that the wood to metal fit is bad than the barrel itself. I bought a 700 Classic in .221 Fireball new in 2002 that had major issues with bedding. The buckshot style groups went away after I bedded the rifle properly. It seems to me that these new rifles aren't carefully built with pride anymore, but hastily assembled with indifference.

You're correct inthat there seems a lack of care in fitting barreled actions to the stock nowdays. I remember back in the good old days the stock was hand fitted to the stock. Now they mass produce them and "Slop" them together.

 

[doubs43]

Remington puts a pressure point near the tip of the stock that bears upward against the barrel. Try running a dollar bill down the barrel channel and I think you'll find it won't go but an inch or less before hitting an obstruction under the barrel. Also check for contact between the barrel and the sides of the channel. If either - or both - conditions exist, sand the channel to free-float the barrel. Be sure to seal the sanded areas again to keep moisture out. When re-installing the action, be sure that the action screws are properly torqued.

You may want to consider bedding the action as well.

I have a Winchester lightweight Model 70 in 7x57mm that I bought new in the early 1990's. Out of the box, it wouldn't hold a 4" group at 100 yards! The stock was pressing against the barrel on the left side with considerable force. I free-floated the barrel and bedded the action. Now it will shoot cloverleaf 3-shot groups at 100 yards with my reloads. I suspect that you have a similar problem and solution.

 

[recoil junky]

I'd be 'a followin' doubs43's advice here.

If the scope is of know quality and the rings/bases are mounted securely, I'd head for the stock as the problem.

RJ

 

[broom_jm]

I've seen bedding problems cause a M70 FTWT in 25-'06 to shoot 4-5" groups, with everything I loaded up for it. I never would have believed the pressure points under the barrel, at the tip of the forend, and the screw that holds the action to the stock could cause so much trouble. After opening up the barrel channel and not over-tightening the action screw, I got groups that were just over an inch. Still never got the sub-MOA I was hoping for in a varmint gun, but I felt a lot better about selling it to a buddy, knowing it would shoot well.

 

[Darin115]

Rem 700 25-06

Years ago I bought a Rem 700 BDL SS DBM chambered in 25-06. For a few years I shot Federal Premium 100 grain ballistic tips. When the price went up I loaded up some Hornady 100 inter-locks and shot a 1 1/2 inc group at 300 yards. Thought it may be a fluke so I did it again and my buddy shot the same size group at the same distance. I went home cleaned the gun and loaded up 100 rounds in the same load. Back to the range a week later only to shoot 4-5 inch groups at 100 yards. I coudl not believe it.

I called Remington. Sent it to one of their gunsmiths. He glass bedded the action and floated the barrel. It was back to shoot 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards with handloads and Federal Premium 100 grain ballistic tips. Have not had a minutes trouble with it since.

I bet you have a bedding issue. Try galss bedding it and see if that clears it up.

Darin

 

[tuck2]

One or more of the following may improve the accuracy of a bolt action rifle. Glass bed the action, freefloat the barrel, adjust the trigger pull, lapp the bolt locking luggs, recrown the muzzle, freefloat the magazine box, remove wood from under the bolt handle.

 

[OneShotKill]

I'm really happy there are some people who have Remingtons that shoot well and they get pleasure from their guns. I'm also very disappointed to here some guys have had problems with their Remingtons. It's stories like the ones we've read on here, that have given me enough reasons to not even look at Remingtons when purchasing a new rifle. It's seems the sad stories mentioned here have proved to me that I made a good decision to forget about looking at Remingtons.

The last Remington I fired, was last year, and it was a mate's Rem 700 with s synthetic stock. Pretty ordinary would be the nicest way I could describe it. I think if Remington don't lift their game, another formally great U.S company will be consigned to history.

 

[broom_jm]

Steve,

Try to remember that the Internet is where everyone complains about products, and almost nobody praises them. As an example of how people on the 'net can nit-pick about the dumbest things, you have misspelled the name, "Jack O'Connor", in your signature. (There is no "e" in his last name.) This is tantamount to sacrilege, in certain circles.

I have shot maybe half a dozen different M700 rifles. Two of them I worked up handloads for, in .243 Win and 6mm Remington. They both shot sub-MOA at 100 yards and shot minute-of-ground squirrel out to ~250, when the shooter did his part. A third M700 I shot was a 308 from the custom shop, with a Hart barrel and Timney trigger. It shot the first 60 rounds (during a break-in process) into one hole that was no more than 1.75", at 100 yards. I'm not sure any of the last 20 rounds touched paper, they just went through the existing hole. This process took several hours as we were shooting just 1, 2, or 3 shots, then cleaning vigorously. The owner of that gun later made a 5-shot group at 200 yards that was 1.15".

Like any other product made by man, there will be gems and there will be lemons. If you want a perfect creation, you'll have to look a little higher than even the most storied gun-maker.

 

[OneShotKill]

Steve,

Try to remember that the Internet is where everyone complains about products, and almost nobody praises them.

I don't believe it's where "everyone" complains about products. While it's certainly an avenue for people to complain, I think it's a great place where every day people can write about their experiences with a product and tell things like they are. I for one, am grateful to the advice and comments I've picked up on websites like this one.

I've been writing for a fishing magazine now for nearly ten years, and I'm sure the pressure on some shooting writers is just as intense as it is on fishing writers. I'm sure a lot of what we read in magazines is to make manufacturers happy and not really in the best interests of readers by giving them straight shooting (no pun intended!) advice and comments. I think the credibility of some writers has been severely damaged when the products they have been touting have been shown to be duds, or readers have discovered that writers have had some deal with manufacturers.

Also, editors of magazines aren't to happy to have manufacturers who advertise in their magazines, unhappy because their products have been poorly reviewed or mentioned in magazines. Without advertisers, editors have some problems don't they?

In my own writings, I won't write about products if I have no confidence in them. I only mention the products I personally use and have faith in, or have tested and been impressed with.

If you want to see the internet used to make some positive comment on a product, have a look at my post.

http://www.shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=65983

 

[doubs43]

Neither Remington nor the 700 model rifles are going away anytime soon. ALL manufacturers who mass produce firearms will turn out the odd lemon. The Winchester model 70 I cited in my first post is a good example of a rifle that had to be "fixed" as it came from the factory. I once owned a brand new Ruger model 77 that shot worse than the Winchester and NOTHING I did to it helped. I finally had a new barrel installed and it became a sub-MOA rifle. Somewhere on the net are a lot of people who are unhappy about almost any brand name you care to mention and they're more than happy to tell us all about their misery.

The smallest 3-shot group I've ever recorded was at 104 yards and measures .071". I used my box-stock Remington 700 Classic in .222 to shoot it. A week ago I got a break in the heat and took my SPS-V in .223 to the range in a new B&C Medalist Tactical/Varmint stock. Three consecutive 3-shot groups at 104 yards measured .284", .356" and .334". I've just installed another box-stock SPS-V .308 barreled action in an identical B&C stock and I expect it to be a consistent sub-MOA rifle.... or better!

Not everyone will like a particular brand of rifle. That's what makes life interesting. I have little liking for Brownings and it's not because they're a poorly made rifle. They simply don't grab me in spite of the many who do love them. My indifference to Browning doesn't lead me to believe that the company is going to fail or that the A-Bolt rifles are going away. Nor has my unhappy experiences with both Winchester and Ruger make me conclude that they turn out horrible rifles on average. I was just unlucky enough to get bad examples.

 

[MikeG]

It has been my experience that the Rem 700 actions respond well to pillar bedding. By the way, the 6mm that my wife shoots has a bore with rust pits - a lot of them! I had to lap the barrel to keep it from giving a hard bolt lift with some factory loads. It is still a bear to clean but she doesn't put too many rounds through it in a year.

After lapping, it will shoot groups around an inch and a half with a variety of factory ammo. Some will be under an inch, but certainly not all! Just goes to show, you never can tell from looking at them. I haven't even tried handloading for it yet.

I would never have believed the gun would have shot as good as it does if I hadn't tried it myself.