[Carl_Spackler]

hello, everyone. I'm new to the forum and thought i'd seek your collective wisdom on making my first rifle purchase. I've been researching rifles for the past month now and have had difficulty in selecting what I want -- i've narrowed it down to either a Remington 700 CDL or a Winchester Model 70 Super Grade. I'm looking to get into hunting down the road and would like a long range big game rifle....probably in a .270 win. i've read a lot of reviews for both guns and there are things I like and dislike about both, but the overall impression I get is that I can't really go wrong with either rifle. I know this is a highly subjective topic but since the majority of you have experience with these rilfes I figured this might help me in my decision.

also, what are the pitfalls of buying used? I know I should inspect the rifle carefully but to a layman such as myself, some defects may not be readily apparant. I know I should check the rifling and the bore, the bolt, etc. would I be better off buying new? Thanks!

 

[45-70 nut]

If this is to be your first rifle I would go with a savage. They are very reliable and extremly accurate out of the box but if a wood stocked rifle is what you want, Id go with a ruger.

 

[700sage]

The 700 and the 70 are both very good rifles. I prefer the 700 because I like the feel of the rifle and location of the safety. I have also never run across a 700 that wouldn't shoot good. Some took a bit of work to find a load that they liked but in the end they shot well. As 45-70 has stated savage is another option that has good accuracy out of the box. Really it all boils down to what rifle you feel best fits you. If you are comfortable with your rifle in the field you will make better shots.

As for used rifles, I'd suggest buying new for a first rifle simply because if the rifle has any defects it would be covered under warranty. Also buying a new rifle and working with it for a few years will give some good experience so you know what to look for when buying used. It's sort of like buying a used car. It could look great on the outside, test drive great, but let you down when it counts.

 

[cvc944]

I like both Remington 700s and Winchester 70s. Both companies produce shining examples of rifles depending on the vintage and model variation. Either choice would net you a really nice hunting machine, but between the two choices you are considering, I would go with the Super Grade. As far as buying used goes, you should know rifles up, down, and inside out. If you don't know why to check for cracks at the locking lugs, or damage at the barrel's crown, you might buy a pig in the poke.

 

[Bird Dog II]

Both are fine rifles. I look forward to adding a Rem 700 to my collection. I think every rifleman should own a nice Model 70 though. They are are the perfect blend of art and a functional workhorse tool.

As .45-70 said, nothing wrong with Savage either. They are great guns for the money.

 

[Oberndorf]

It depends what you prefer

I have Remington, Winchester and Savage rifles and most of them came off the used gun racks in various gun shops. See what is available and get the best condition and deal that you can. The shops I deal with will take anything back if the customer is not satisfied. Used guns can be a real bargain. The prices of new ones give me chest pains. I have been reading and hearing a lot of comments about some of the newer guns. Take care...
Oberndorf

 

[mattsbox99]

Rem 700 is my vote, but it would be a Ruger first, of course!

New winchesters are built by FN of Belgium, I can't say I'd buy one, but an older USRAC Winchester or a real Winchester would be a good choice.

 

[Tnhunter]

I personally prefer the M70 over the m700. I am a big fan of the 3 position safety and I think the Super Grade M70 is a very handsome and well made rifle. I think you'll likely get a nicer grained piece of walnut on the M70 SG as well. I own all the rifles mentioned thus far in the original question and subsequent postings and would have to say that IMHO a M70 SG is a notch above any Savage or even Ruger bolt rifle now that Ruger no longer makes a RSM in .270 or '06. Personally, I would (and have) prefer the M70 to a Kimber even, having owned a Kimber 84 as well.

 

[Big Z]

I'd skip the 270, for starters, and go 7mmRM. It's a handicap in any choice, when thoughts of "long range" are mentioned.

 

[broom_jm]

I am very fond of both the Model 70 Win and Model 700 Rem. but for different reasons. They are both suitable for hunting and benchrest shooting, but I've always made a distinction between the two: The Model 70 is "the rifleman's rifle". It must be, because that's what the ad print told us! To me, the Winchester is the working man's gun and THE rifle, if you're going hunting. The features mentioned above (3-position safety, controlled round feeding, claw extractor) all point toward a pedigree based in the game fields of the world. The Model 700, on the other hand, has long been noted for better accuracy. This is not a hard and fast rule, but as a general statement, few experienced riflemen would argue with you if you said the average 700 is more accurate than the average Model 70.

The reason I chose the Model 70 for this poll is pretty simple: While I love shooting tight groups with any gun, it is primarily because I am envisioning a hunt for ground squirrels or pronghorn or bean-field whitetails, where that accuracy will be put to good use. In other words, I'm not a "target" shooter at heart, I'm a hunter. In my mind, the Model 700 is a target rifle and the Model 70 is a hunting rifle. Right or wrong, that's just how I see it.

Plus, everyone knows Jack use a Model 70 for most of his hunting.

 

[mattsbox99]

Jason I will agree there, I could not care less about paper - I'm a hunter. My pick is the Ruger though, its done the job for me for all my hunting needs to date!

 

[bsn]

While you couldn't go wrong with either one the FN built Winchesters are pure art and you get alot of gun for the money.

 

[digisol]

Very few have such a good reputation for quality and accuracy, Sako takes the prize, perhaps a bit expensive but consider that the good stuff will always cost more than the average firearms.

 

[beretzs]

Same here, the Winchester M70 is alot of gun for the money. Especially the Super Grades. I have on M700CDL also and it is a very nice rifle and shoots really well. It handles just as good as any of my M70's, but in reality, I like the M70 features and 3 pos safety. You couldn't really make a bad choice between the two rifles you mentioned, but the CDL isn't a Super Grade. It is more or the M70 Sporter if you want to compare apples to apples. Nothing wrong with either and I don't think you will see any difference in accuracy between the two of them nowadays either. Scotty

 

[Rugerfan0374]

I voted other. I am a big winchester model 70 fan, but I am a bigger Ruger fan ( hence the screen name). However neither of these were my first rifle. I started out on a Savage. As far as remington, I had a Model 700 adl for a short while, personally I thought it was trash, but that is just me, although for a short while I had aquired a 700 CDL , and I though that was a fine looking rifle, never got to shoot it, so can't tell you about accuracy.

Over the years I have really gotten used to the 3 position wing safety of the model 70 and the Ruger M77 Mark II.

It is really hard to say what you will want, but I am throwing in you won't go wrong with a Ruger.

As far as pitfalls of buying used. You just never know. Sometimes you will be fine, sometimes you won't.

 

[Combat Diver]

Both are good guns but as a first rifle I select other. Suggest that you consider and look at the Marlin XL7 series. New can be had for $300-350 and have a reputitation for accuracy.

CD

 

[richard scott]

Rem 700 is my vote, but it would be a Ruger first, of course!

New winchesters are built by FN of Belgium, I can't say I'd buy one, but an older USRAC Winchester or a real Winchester would be a good choice.

new Winchester M70's are built by FNUSA in South Carolina. FN is world renowned for quality and the FN built M70's i've handled won't tarnish that reputation.

 

[TMan]

hello, everyone. I'm new to the forum and thought i'd seek your collective wisdom on making my first rifle purchase. I've been researching rifles for the past month now and have had difficulty in selecting what I want -- i've narrowed it down to either a Remington 700 CDL or a Winchester Model 70 Super Grade.

also, what are the pitfalls of buying used?

I've owned several 700's and a few M70's. On the average Remington is more accurate out of the box, but some of the best shooters I've ever seen have been M70's. Both are quality firearms. The two CDL's I currently have are very good.

Used? The other day I was in a shop looking at the used rack. One that caught my eye was a "used" Kimber in .30-06. I could tell a scope had never been mounted, there was virtually no travel on the rails. $675! I need a .30-06 like I need a 6th toe, but somebody is in for a huge bargain. A couple months ago, I held a 7RUM that was immaculate. When I pulled the bolt, there was 3-4" of rifling missing. It depends.

 

[M1Garand]

The new M70s are shooters and this is coming from a M700 guy. I wanted a 270 with a 24" barrel and these are the two I considered myself. I ended up going with the Supergrade. I've not worked with it a whole lot yet, but it's shot very well so far. I loaded up some 130 Game Kings with 54.5 of Hunter just to make sure I was on paper at 100 yards and got this group:

I was out last week and had some 130 Speer Grand Slams, a bullet I've never got to shoot well in my M700 and figured I'd shoot some off with Magpro in a latter type test and the first loads grouped like this, the others not quite so well but this was definately in the node:

I have other loads/bullets that shot well and I also have many other bullets to shoot, I picked up a bunch of Nosler seconds in the 130 BT's and AB's and am confident they will shoot as well if not better. I can't speak for the CDL as I've not shot one, but the new M70 is the real deal. My advise would be go to a store and handle a couple and see what you like best.

 

[mac266]

I didn't vote in the poll. I say look around the gun stores and see what's on the used rack. All of the guns mentioned in this thread are great, so when you find a used one in the caliber you want, buy it -- whether it's a Winchester, Remington, Savage, Sako, Ruger, or whatever.

Since you're new to rifle shooting let me make a suggestion: Save some money for a good scope! Far too often people put cheap scopes on nice rifles, then get pizzed when they can't see a deer at 100 yards. A Leopold VX I (3-9 X 40mm) will run you around $300 once you buy the base, rings, and have it installed. That's a lot of money, but I guarantee if you put a $60 scope on you're going to get frustrated!

Cheap scopes (Bushnell, Simmons, Tasco, etc.) use *PLASTIC* for the lenses. Yes, plastic. That causes the picture to be very fuzzy, and the eye relief is too doggone close to the scope. I had a cheap scope on a Remington 700 in .30-06 and smacked myself between the eyes with the scope when the gun recoiled. I took it off and bought a Leopold, problem solved.

Leopold and others use glass lenses. They have clear pictures, are durable as heck, hold a zero, adjust more precisely, and have a longer eye releif to avoid that embarrasing crescent moon between the eyes. IMO, Leopold is the cheapest GOOD scope I would buy -- there are others that cost more but I don't see more bang for the buck.

BSA scopes are less expsensive. Does anyone know anything about them? I've never used one. Leopold for me.

I'm mentioning this because TOO MANY hunters / shooters forget to budget for a good scope.

Lastly, make sure you buy the right power of scope. I see a lot of hunters buy a 12-15 power scope and then tell me their hunting area is so thick they'll never shoot beyond 100 yards. Seriously, wtf do you need with a 15X scope at 100 yards? A fixed 4X scope would do the trick, and it's easier to carry, easier (seemingly) to hold steady, etc. Figure out what type of shooting you're going to do and tailor the scope / gun combination to that. If you're going to shoot prairie dogs at 600 yards, maybe that 15X scope is the right choice. For deer at 100 yards, that's TOO MUCH scope!