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There are many millions of guns out there in addition to Remingtons that only employ a trigger block safety. They are far more numerous than those which actually block the firing pin. Jumping off the deep end over it now is just silly.
 

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Please look at those other trigger block safeties and you'll see the sear is part of the trigger. If the trigger is blocked, so is the sear. The Remington is different and you CAN see it. But you have to look for it. Dead people demand answers, they can't be ignored.
 

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Before transitioning to O/U shotguns I was an 870 shooter, never used the safety on one.....ever, you leave the action open just far enough to see the plastic part of the shotshell, when you shoulder the gun it closes, trigger finger stays outside the trigger guard until the shot and the gun is never pointed towards anyone even when "empty". When unloading an 870 it's pointed in the air, index finger held down on the bolt release and the other hand pumps the action, no fingers inside the trigger guard. Gun is pointed straight up when dropping the hammer on an "empty" chamber.
Put a loaded gun in the vehicle? huh.
Like Jeff Cooper said, there's 4 gun safety rules that have to be broken before someone is shot, there are people that think that a mechanical gun safety gives them carte blanche to break all the other gun safety rules.
I've never seen it written anywhere where it says it's okay to point a loaded gun at someone as long as the safety is on.
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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Kevin, I agree, if a person's brain is engaged - there ought to be a lot fewer injuries / fatalities in this world; not just guns.

But, how many of us have leaned a shotgun against a tree to answer the call of nature? If it slips and falls over and discharges because it hit the ground with just enough force to let the hammer jump the sear, whose fault is that?

I would hazard a guess that most of the RCFC problems with the gun going off when it shouldn't, are from "bubba" trigger jobs, gunk in the housing, or just plain worn out.

Some people shouldn't own anything more complicated than a screwdriver, but there's no IQ or mechanical aptitude test to own a gun (or work on one, either).

Food for thought.
 

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Lots of people are trained that way or they just do it because they always have-put the gun down without partially opening the action or lifting the bolt, it's second nature to me make the gun safe when not in direct control. The only hunting I do that requires a cartridge in the chamber or close to all the time is turkey and pheasant/quail hunting, I end opening the action alot and prefer hunting by myself for both. My wife has a hard time closing her 870 action quietly turkey hunting so she uses the safety instead of the partially open action method. I occasionally bounce the butt pad of her gun on the floor of my gun room with it cocked to make sure it stays that way. A 3 1/2 12 gauge turkey load at close range is probably the most lethal gun there is, no wonder turkey hunting is the most dangerous shooting sport there is.
My biggest fear is dropping a loaded gun out of a treestand and having it discharge upwards hitting one of us hence my rule of no cartridge in the chamber until there's a shot opportunity.
Wondering if those aftermarket triggers they make for 870's are safer than the oem triggers?
I've replaced all the triggers on my 700's with Mark-X triggers.
 

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Mike G. You point is understood, but the information is not wholly correct on the Challenger. The o-rings in question were not designed to seal at temperatures as low as the day they launched the shuttle. The engineers tried to get them to scrub the launch waiting for warmer weather, but they would not. They knew there was a very low chance of failure, but that there was a chance.

JBelk. Even systems designed to fail safe are not totally failsafe. When you are dealing with any mechanical or electrical system, there is no such thing as 100% fail safe. Especially when you start throwing in wear, misuse and poor maintenance. That is why chemical plant have entire staffs going around changing out all of their safety valves and controls on a periodic basis. If they have failsafe system not function, they are evacuating a 10 mile radius.

I agree and understand the difference in the trigger and safety systems. Remington and some others have made the same decision that mission control did with the Challenger.
 

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But, how many of us have leaned a shotgun against a tree to answer the call of nature? If it slips and falls over and discharges because it hit the ground with just enough force to let the hammer jump the sear, whose fault is that?
Friend of mine lost his leg from just that a couple years ago. 870
 

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The Shadow
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We still tease Hugo about feeding his dog cheap food and wanting to do him in, over that.:LOL::ROFLMAO:
 

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But, how many of us have leaned a shotgun against a tree to answer the call of nature? If it slips and falls over and discharges because it hit the ground with just enough force to let the hammer jump the sear, whose fault is that?
Uh, the leaner. Anyone who props a long gun in a precarious position, cocked with a round in the chamber, regardless of a safety mechanism, is an irresponsible a**. Learned that before I was ever allowed to take a gun out in the field.
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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My point about the space shuttle was to address the "it has never happened to me, therefore it cannot happen" crowd who likes to stick their heads in the sand. We can call it a design defect, human stupidity (or both) or anything else, but the point is - didn't happen before, but it happened that day.

Worst gun safety violation - I didn't witness this but a friend has an IDIOT for a brother in law. Dumb-arse was dove hunting in south Texas and climbed a barbed-wire fence, with a loaded shotgun, in the MIDDLE of two posts. As you can imagine at some point he went flying one way, and the gun another. Tragically, he did not lose his ability to procreate after this as the world's DNA pool would have been improved if he had. Too bad he didn't land in a clump of prickly pear, probably only two hours from a hospital at that point (Hebronville, and I've dove hunted the same place). I don't know what shotgun he had, but it didn't go off, by good fortune. Point being - people do STUPID stuff and there is, unfortunately, no IQ test for buying a gun (I wouldn't sell that guy a butter knife). I've met him and he REALLY is that dumb.

Never thought of carrying my 870 with the action open a bit, good tip, thanks.

Most of the miles I've put on my 870 were rabbit hunting with beagles. A fun thing to do. I'm pretty severely militant about gun safety, and won't tolerate idiots, but there's always the chance of tripping over a tree root or whatever and dropping the gun, if you're walking around in the brush. Just a thought.
 

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Elk Whisperer (Super Moderator)
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The action "part open" has been in use for both pumps and bolts around our house for years, good idea too. The 58 (and no, I didn't take it to the band saw) was/is left with the action open and a round on the carrier ready to poke the charge bar release button.

The "crawling through fence" was always done actions open whether bolt, pump or auto. One guy stood on the "on side", held said weapons while guy #1 ripped the crotch out of his Wranglers, then after self adjustment, he held the weapons on the "off side" while guy #2 used a post to climb over and saved his crotch. Shotguns were always loaded because of the frequency of buzz worms, oftentimes the bag of buzzworms would out numbered the bag of birds.

My Australian shepard/lab mix was an excellent pointer and getbetweener of buzzworms. He saved 't missus before she became 't missus after all.

RJ
 
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None that I've owned but I've seen a few 870's that had very loose bolts that with just the weight of the shell would close when held barrel down or would open if help muzzle up. Almost like the gun was missing that spring that's riveted to the inside of the action that works against the side of the bolt/ ejector or has lost all it's spring, Jack would know for sure.
 

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The action "part open" has been in use for both pumps and bolts around our house for years, good idea too. The 58 (and no, I didn't take it to the band saw) was/is left with the action open and a round on the carrier ready to poke the charge bar release button.

The "crawling through fence" was always done actions open whether bolt, pump or auto. One guy stood on the "on side", held said weapons while guy #1 ripped the crotch out of his Wranglers, then after self adjustment, he held the weapons on the "off side" while guy #2 used a post to climb over and saved his crotch. Shotguns were always loaded because of the frequency of buzz worms, oftentimes the bag of buzzworms would out numbered the bag of birds.

My Australian shepard/lab mix was an excellent pointer and getbetweener of buzzworms. He saved 't missus before she became 't missus after all.

RJ
OK, I've been haunting this site for a long time. What are buzz worms?
 
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