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Discussion Starter #1
Getting the kids into woods is the key. Kids are quick learners and pickup on things quickly with just simple observation.

When stationed at Ft. Lewis, WA I would take all three kids hunting with me. I would only hunt grouse and other game birds but the kids got to see alot of beautiful country up in the mountains and on the fort.

When kids are young they can see in the natural order that offspring will not fight with the parent. They play and wrestle or just run around while the parent observes or participates.

If the parent is gone unexpectedly the offspring either hides, calls out, or heads down momma's sent trail.

My children do not play with guns. They respect them. All three know how to shoot and how to handle them safely. This goes for every weapon in the house. I am not a very good parent. I have taught my children woodcraft, gun safety and marksmanship. I never hid or locked up any of my weapons. The kids could have touched, handled, or played with them anytime. But firearms hold no mystery or mystique with them. They know that they are tools. That firing one brings on the finality of death. You cannot rewind that scene. You don't change channels to see that person again.

My daughters are now 17 and 19 and have no real interest in hunting, but they do not condemn it. They only condemn irresponsible behavior. They are fairly aggitated with their peers- They describe them as spoiled, arrogant, and idiotic.

As the younger one pointed out the guys at school drive new to two year old SUV's or 4X4 P/U's that never get off the pavement or hard packed drive. Food comes from a grocery store or resteraunt. These guys wouldn't know how to cook it even if nature provided a fire and meat.

The ACLU (otherwise known as American Communist Leaders Union) has filed a suit against the school district, and high school because they will not act on a petition of charter for a GSA club at my younger daughters High School. (GSA stands for Gay-Straight Allaince) The purpose is to allow gay students and straight students to come together in forum to discuss each others chosen sexuality and how to get along with each other.

Now the School district has a lawsuit because they have not decide whether to grant a charter or not.

I have taught my kids how to take care of themselves. They can get food however need be. Nobody in my house suffers from a Bambi complex. They enjoy nature, they respect nature, but nature has its rules and you cannot fool with or change those rules.

My children see no evil in hunting or fishing. It is a way to eat, and too relax.

My children also know something most of their peers have never even heard of much less taught..... Ones rights extend only to the point were they interfere with someone elses rights.

My son has been hunting deer with me since the age of 4, I ran him through hunter safety at the age of 8, bought his first license at 9. He has had at least one shot at deer every year since then. But he did not shoot one until this year during the doe and cull buck hunting season. His reason for not shooting before at some really nice bucks? He was not confident or comfortable with the shot presented. Now that type judgment made the ol' man bust every button off my shirt. I could not have been prouder of him. I continue today to tell him that I am proud at his judgement.

Folks, these shots he was presented were of the types most people would try. Shooting through a leafless blowdown, a quartering away, fast walk through thick wooded area, anyone of those most would have tried, I could have a couple of those shots, and they would have been clean kills. Yes, I was sitting on the ground next to the lad during each hunt. Not for safety, but the comraderie.

His first deer was a doe. She was about three years old and 120 lbs. (South Texas deer) She came off a working ranch with no high fences, and less than 30 miles to the Mexico border.

We saw many deer, hog, javelina, coyote, and some badgers.
There was also a slew of jackrabbits and cottontails.

His shot was the classic standing broadside at a pace count of 125 yds. The doe still ran 75 yds into the brush and cactus.

He was shooting a Remington youth 700 chambered in .243 with Federal 100 grain cartridges. Zero on the weapon was 200 yds. Entry was just over one inch above the shoulder.

I was disturbed when she ran. At impact of the shot which I observed she kicked her rear legs up, stumbled, and then ran. I knew the shot was good. Walked to were she was when shot. I found no blood, hair, or anything but tracks.

I tracked her for 50 yards and then saw her down by a large prickly pear patch. That was 25 more yards away. When we walked up on the that was the only blood on the ground.

Found what was left of bullet under the skin on the side when field dressing. She must have been a pretty tough old girl. Shock damage was catastrophic. Most of the lungs were gone, damage to the heart, diaphram was intact but the stomach was ruptured? The bullet had entered as I said just above the shoulder and was resting under the skin above the opposite shoulder. What is cause for worry is no bones were struck. Just shock damage. Bullet copper jacket was 60% remaining. Nothing else was recovered. No exit wound. I am not very pleased with the performance. The shot he made should have passed through at that range since it only encountered soft tissue and the range was moderate.

Sorry for the epic novel
 

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Buzzard1,

I am not a very good parent.
You sir, (I use the term with respect), grosly underestimate yourself.
I would give anything to have had a father such as yourself.
You've done yourself and parents in general good.
Keep up the great work, your not done yet.
 

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Buzzard1:

The fact that your kids have turned out so well speaks volumes about what a good parent you have been to them. The world could use more parents like you. Hang in there.

J.P.
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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Buz, great job, and what exact bullet is loaded in that Fed. .243 ammo?

Tell your son congrats from the entire forum, great job, he made the shot and recovered the deer, that's what counts.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
MikeG,

Here is the load that my son was using.

Product Primer
No. No. Grains/Grams Style

P243C 210 100 /6.48 BTSP

Caliber Muzzle 100 200 300 400
Yds Yds Yds Yds
243 Win. (6.16x51mm) 1950 1690 1460 1260
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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Buz, not sure who the manufacturer of the boat-tailed soft point in that load was (Federal makes some of their own bullets and buys others), but it IS your problem, plain and simple.

.243 is on the light end of things, as you know, and needs all the help it can get from good bullets. Get the Federal "Premium" loading with the 100gr. Nosler Partition, and don't look back. Don't use anything else, unless you can find a factory load with the Barnes "X" bullet (PMC maybe?).

Remember.... "Partition" or "X" - this is one case where you have to read the label. To test, go find a pig in the range of 100 lbs or so, it should go through both shoulders on a broadside shot - my .257 Roberts will, with good 100 gr. bullets.
 
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