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Discussion Starter #1
45 years ago on my birthday I was given a Savage .219 Zipper by my father. (In .219 Zipper caliber; a few years ago I purchased a second Savage 219 but it is in .30-30 caliber.) About once a decade I will load up my cases and shoot it a bit. Trouble is, over the years, some of my cases have started to split, they've been reloaded a few times, I am now down to less than 60. I have some .30-30 cases and have tried necking them down but I get wrinkles in the necks, (vertical). They also stick and jam in the die as I try to resize them, I used a wax-y lube that I purchased at a gun store, supposedly for reloading. I tried annealing a couple cases but that didn't seem to make much difference. I have two sets of dies for the .219, a set I received from my father 45 years ago and a second set I have not used which was given to me by a friend who said they were resizing dies, but which look identical to the ones I already have.
So the questions are: Are there both "reloading" and "resizing" dies? And am I doing the right things to resize the cases?
Thanks for your help
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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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There are a couple of things that you can try.

First, make one pass through your bullet seating die, as the first step in the resizing process. The bullet seating die is cut to somewhat larger dimensions than the sizing die.

Then make the final pass through the 'regular' resizing die, relubing as necessary. If this works then you are home free.

You can also size the case down in stages. For example, don't run it all the way into the die on the first pass. Do it in several passes.

Also start out with new brass, which will be softer.

.30 to .22 is quite a drop. I suspect you may need to find a set of forming dies. If your forming operation works, then make sure that the case necks aren't too thick for the chamber.

If the wrinkles in the neck aren't too severe, then they will iron out when you fire the cases for the first time. But it would be better if you can solve the forming problems.

Also you can anneal the remaining cases as this will help with the splits, if they are in the neck anyway. If the cases are splitting in the body then you probably can't anneal enough to fix the problem without ruining the hardness of the case head.

Failing all that, you might look for formed cases or old factory ammo. They would probably be cheaper than buying a set of forming dies. Try the Old Western Scrounger.
 

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219Zipper,
The case form dies are avaiable from Redding, and possibly others, the retail for form dies #1&2 are $61.50/each. They could probably be had for $100 from a supplier. As an alternative, here is place I found but have no experience with, they offer brass and loaded ammo for what appears to be reasonable rpicing to me. The brass is about $28/20 and the loaded ammo is $3-8 additional a box depending on the bullet type you want. Here's the link

Here's another place that offers only brass, but at a much lower price if you want a greater quantity of it. They are a lot cheaper if you want more than 20 cases. Click here to check it out.
 

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The advice to lube lightly and size in steps is a good one. Can try this:
Use new brass
1. Lube lightly.
2. strip the decapper/expander rod out of the .219zipper die...want it empty on the inside so if a case crumples, it won't be trapped.
3. Set the Zipper die way-way out of the press.
4. Raise the ram all the way up (the die should be so far out of the press,the 30-30 case doesn't contact anything).
5. Screw the zipper die down until it just contacts the 30-30 case mouth.
6. "Bump" size in small steps. Move the 30-30 case down 1/2 inch, turn the zipper die down 1/4-1/2 turn, rise ran and size just that little bit of 30-30 case. Do it again...and again...and again...until you've size the whole case to .219Zipper.
(the idea here is to use only the top 1/2" of ram travel, where your leverage is the best).
7. If getting wrinkles...try using LESS lube or periodicaly withdrawing the partly sized case and redistributing the lube.

I've mangaed to make .22Jet and .256WCF cases from .357's without any intermediate dies this way. Still make .225W ases from 30-30's (after lathing the rim) without an in-betweens steps this way. (Before anyone point it out...only use the converted 30-30 cases for low pressure loads in the .225).

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Better would be some intermediate dies. If you could scrounge a 7mm and a .25 cal die it would help. As all you need it sot size the neck down until small enough to actually use the .219 die, can use ANY 7mm/25 die that is short enough to size the shoulder and wide enough in the body to not touch the 30-30 case. A 250 savage die would work (adjust to just size the neck) as would a 7mm/08.
 

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The advice to lube lightly and size in steps is a good one. Can try this:
Use new brass
1. Lube lightly.
2. strip the decapper/expander rod out of the .219zipper die...want it empty on the inside so if a case crumples, it won't be trapped.
3. Set the Zipper die way-way out of the press.
4. Raise the ram all the way up (the die should be so far out of the press,the 30-30 case doesn't contact anything).
5. Screw the zipper die down until it just contacts the 30-30 case mouth.
6. "Bump" size in small steps. Move the 30-30 case down 1/2 inch, turn the zipper die down 1/4-1/2 turn, rise ran and size just that little bit of 30-30 case. Do it again...and again...and again...until you've size the whole case to .219Zipper.
(the idea here is to use only the top 1/2" of ram travel, where your leverage is the best).
7. If getting wrinkles...try using LESS lube or periodicaly withdrawing the partly sized case and redistributing the lube.

I've mangaed to make .22Jet and .256WCF cases from .357's without any intermediate dies this way. Still make .225W ases from 30-30's (after lathing the rim) without an in-betweens steps this way. (Before anyone points it out...only use the converted 30-30 cases for low pressure loads in the .225).

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Better would be some intermediate dies. If you could scrounge a 7mm and a .25 cal die it would help. As all you need it for is to size the neck down (the body is pretty close as it is)until small enough to actually use the .219 die, can use ANY 7mm/25 die that is short enough to size the shoulder and wide enough in the body to not touch the 30-30 case. A 250 savage die would work (adjust to just size the neck) as would a 7mm/08.

Here I'd size the neck in a 7.08 die...then in an adjusted out .250savage die, then right to the .219 die...all dies stripped of the decapping rod until after fully formed...then you put the decapping rod back in and start normal loading procedures.
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NEW BRASS...if I could yell it, I would. Old brass will triple the discard rate...real old brass will jsut plain refuse to form.

After all this forming, I would anneal the SURVIVORS of the first load (call it a fire form load, but it really isn't).
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Necks will get a bit thicker...but not enough to be a hazard.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Slight correction, now that I looked at my math, I received the rifle 35 years ago, not 45. But that doesn't matter.

I really appreciate all the tips, advise, and web links. I will give it a shot. I found an original box of 20 Winchester rounds on an online auction which I purchased for $35, but the reloads from the web link are less than that! I will try resizing by steps, plus one of my neighbors offered help and use of his reloading bench. I think things will work out great!

Thanks for your assistance.
:)
 
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