Shooters Forum banner
1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
135 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
For best accuracy, I think I've read that the bullet should fit the cylinder mouth rather than the bore.
Seems there must be a safety limit though, right?
The bore on my Taurus 450 Ultralite is .451, cylinder mouths are a consistent .457.
I've found the Lee 220 gr RN .45 BP pistol mould throws a .457 bullet and loaded rounds chamber easily, 'though I haven't shot any yet.
Too much? Worth trying?
FWIW, alloy is ~11 BHN.

Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,247 Posts
The dia. of your bullet should be .001 to .002 over bore dia.. Your cly. mouths at .457 sound a bit over size. A .457 dia bullet is far over size for a .451 bore. I would size the bullets to .452 & see how it shoots.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,832 Posts
You need to also find the diameter of the cylinder mouths. If they're sizing the bullet smaller than bore diameter they won't shoot well. The idea is to have them enter the bore slightly over bore diameter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
135 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
To correct myself, I should have said groove, not bore, diameter.
Yes, cast .001" over groove diameter normally gives good results in a rifle or pistol, but revolvers often have cylinder mouths even larger.
It's been a long time since I read it, and I don't know where I've misplaced it, but I believe I read in a Beartooth publication that revolver bullets should best fit the cylinder mouth.
I guess my question should be "How far over is too far over?"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,517 Posts
Rigby275, do you mean that the Lee is a black powder cartridge bullet mold or a C & B mold. If its a conical, then the top land will be a bit larger in diameter, to assist ramming the conical home into the muzzles of the percussion cylinder. Could you supply us with the Lee # on your mold??
 

·
Elk Whisperer (Super Moderator)
Joined
·
11,665 Posts
Yeah carpooler, that's what it sounds like to me too.

Rig, my Redhawk 44 mag, had a groove diameter of .429 and a throat diameter of .432 so I sized the bullets to .431, .002 over groove dia. Those bullets being .457 might be a little hard on the forcing cone even though they "chamber OK"

RJ
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
135 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Hi carpooler -

It's the 90384 Conical, nominal .456.
Base diam is full size.

RJ - my comment about chambering is to note that they don't expand the case excessively for this particular cylinder, indicating the chambers may be over spec for the .45 Colt too.
My concern is in fact excessive swaging through the forcing cone.
Swaging a .457 cast rifle bullet .007 in a press for paper patching takes a good bit of leverage but that doesn't necessarily translate to this set of conditions.
This may be uncharted territory for all I know.
 

·
Elk Whisperer (Super Moderator)
Joined
·
11,665 Posts
At a BH of 11, I'd think they would size pretty easily, although my melt of wheel weight lead plus 1% tin seems to get "harder" over time requiring more force during sizing. You didn't mention what you're using for casting, but at a BH of 11 I'd almost guess wheel weights?

RJ
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
135 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Yes, RJ, WW+range scrap.
 

·
Elk Whisperer (Super Moderator)
Joined
·
11,665 Posts
I've sized .440 wheel weight RB's to .431 just to see if they's work for "gallery" loads in the 44 mag. Sizing was not too bad, although keeping them in the case was a problem :D nowhere to crimp! :p

I'd say try and size a couple, you've got nothing to lose but the time it takes . . . . . .

One thing that worries me is lube. Not much of a lube groove will be left on that bullet after sizing(?)

RJ
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
135 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
If I understand correctly RJ, you're suggesting sizing the .457 bullets to .451.452.
I have .451/.452 moulds and bullets - I'm speaking of using the .457s unsized (with full depth lube grooves) so they fit the chamber mouths.
FWIW, forcing cone mouth is >.465 so that won't be an issue (unless timing is off but not noticeable with .451/.452 bullets).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
766 Posts
I think .003 over groove diameter is too much and will cause inaccuracy due to bullet deformation. I also think sizing bullets .003 or more is detrimental to accuracy. I would try sizing to .453 and hope for the best. Just a thought.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
422 Posts
SAAMI specs for 45 Colt is 0.450" groove diameter and 0.4555" cylinder throat. Bullet diameter is listed as 0.456-0.006".

I don't think the cylinder throat would be of any concern to me at all, as a BHN 11 bullet will obdurate enough to fill that hole easily. Fit the bullet to the barrel and make it 0.452 or 0.453" and I'm guessing all will be fine.

I've never heard of fitting the bullet to the forcing cone per se.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
135 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
I've loaded 5 rounds with the .457 bullet and will do a sxs accuracy check in a few days.
With the short barrel I don't see much to be gained shooting farther than 7 yards and I suspect there won't be enough difference to make it worth the possible risk of a fractured forcing cone from extensive shooting.
I'll report results.
FWIW, the recommendation for fitting the bullet to the cylinder mouth (not the forcing cone) comes from the Beartooth Technical Manual IIRC.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,744 Posts
For best accuracy, I think I've read that the bullet should fit the cylinder mouth rather than the bore.
Seems there must be a safety limit though, right?
The bore on my Taurus 450 Ultralite is .451, cylinder mouths are a consistent .457.
I've found the Lee 220 gr RN .45 BP pistol mould throws a .457 bullet and loaded rounds chamber easily, 'though I haven't shot any yet.
Too much? Worth trying?
FWIW, alloy is ~11 BHN.

Thanks.


If the .457 diameter bullet loaded into the case will chamber the forcing cone and bore will size it down and accuracy should be very good as long as pressure is not high enough to bump up the base of a 11 BHN. If sow cast a to 20-22 BHN.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
135 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
A 5-shot group of each (220 gr RN/.457, 255 gr SWC/.452) certainly doesn't prove anything but as I suspected there wasn't significant difference in accuracy.
Both loads grouped within a small fraction of 1 1/4" @ 7 yds, discounting a flyer in the 255 gr group.
More testing at 25 yds will tell the tale.
Even so, I think the weight and shape of the SWC might get the nod over pure accuracy at long SD ranges.
Plus I shoot the SWC in a PT-1911, 'though my Glock 30SF's chamber won't handle the OAL.

I think it worth noting that neither was a developed load, both being essentially random less-than-max loads for powders on hand.
Seems perhaps indicative of some inherent accuracy of the 450 UL, as my age, lack of recent practice and vision problems sure don't help. :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
422 Posts
I've loaded 5 rounds with the .457 bullet and will do a sxs accuracy check in a few days.
With the short barrel I don't see much to be gained shooting farther than 7 yards and I suspect there won't be enough difference to make it worth the possible risk of a fractured forcing cone from extensive shooting.
I'll report results.
FWIW, the recommendation for fitting the bullet to the cylinder mouth (not the forcing cone) comes from the Beartooth Technical Manual IIRC.
I won't dispute what you are saying, but it makes me wonder why the biggest 45 bullet Beartooth Bullets sells is 0.454". Perhaps you can educate me?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,744 Posts
I won't dispute what you are saying, but it makes me wonder why the biggest 45 bullet Beartooth Bullets sells is 0.454". Perhaps you can educate me?
Because they make what sells best, most do not realize that cylinder leade fit is most critical.
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Top