Rifle accuracy?
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Are you talking about "ANY" or production. I've got some custom's that will almost make competion benchrest rifles.
The three most accurate over the counter factory rifles I've ever own are:
A Remington 788, 6mm I bought in about 1969. With the factory barrel, it would shoot 1/2" groups at 200 yds.
A Tikka T3 Lite, 243 I bought several months ago
A Tikka T3 Varmint, 22-250 I bougth a little over a month ago.
With a lot of load developement, both the Tikka's are shooting constistant groups in the one inch range at 400yds and have shot a large number of them a half inch and smaller. If the wind is not blowing, it's not uncommon to post back to back 3/4" groups at 400yds. The 22-250 is a lot more consistant and will shoot five shot groups a little tighter than the 243 will hold three shot groups. A 1 1/4" five shot group @ 400yds is some very bad shooting on my part and not getting the windage right.
The three most accurate over the counter factory rifles I've ever own are:
A Remington 788, 6mm I bought in about 1969. With the factory barrel, it would shoot 1/2" groups at 200 yds.
A Tikka T3 Lite, 243 I bought several months ago
A Tikka T3 Varmint, 22-250 I bougth a little over a month ago.
With a lot of load developement, both the Tikka's are shooting constistant groups in the one inch range at 400yds and have shot a large number of them a half inch and smaller. If the wind is not blowing, it's not uncommon to post back to back 3/4" groups at 400yds. The 22-250 is a lot more consistant and will shoot five shot groups a little tighter than the 243 will hold three shot groups. A 1 1/4" five shot group @ 400yds is some very bad shooting on my part and not getting the windage right.
Those Tikkas sound benchrest accurate to me. What scopes are you using? Any other special equipment needed to do that?
I've had two 788 remingtons. One in .222 and the other in 22-250 which would shoot five shot 1/2 groups @ 100yds somewhat consistanly providing I did my job. Both rifles had trigger jobs. Had the same scope on both rifles, a 3x9 USA made Redfield.
I still have a Model 12 Savage BVSS that would shoot .240's at 100. Accuracy fell off some lately, still haven't had a chance to chase down the reason for the expanded groups. Hade a Buckmaster 4.5x14 which now has been swapped for a 6x18 Leupold.
I still have a Model 12 Savage BVSS that would shoot .240's at 100. Accuracy fell off some lately, still haven't had a chance to chase down the reason for the expanded groups. Hade a Buckmaster 4.5x14 which now has been swapped for a 6x18 Leupold.
i had a 700 bdl sporter in 22/250 with a 3-9 redfield low-pro wideview that was a one hole gun... just incrediblly easy to pound out one obround hole with 5 shots...
i have a 96 mauser, the date stamp on the front ring is 1899 that i screwed a #3 contour shilen bbl. in, put a bold trigger on it and welded on a new bolt handle, glass bedded it into a dakota will stock from boyds, and put a leupold M8 fixed 7.5x scope on it. it's chambered in 6.5x55AI and it will put 5 shots into virtually one hole as well, i seem to shoot 3 into one and then "tail off" all shots touch but it's not as tight as the remington i just mentioned above... that doesn't bother me tho since it is still cock on close... oh, i had norman johnson machine the shroud for a 2 position sideswing saftey, he did a beautifull job with the machine work and the bluing. if i had it to do over i'd probably go with a #2 contour barrel for the sake of shaving a little weight off the gun but thats pretty minor...
i have a 96 mauser, the date stamp on the front ring is 1899 that i screwed a #3 contour shilen bbl. in, put a bold trigger on it and welded on a new bolt handle, glass bedded it into a dakota will stock from boyds, and put a leupold M8 fixed 7.5x scope on it. it's chambered in 6.5x55AI and it will put 5 shots into virtually one hole as well, i seem to shoot 3 into one and then "tail off" all shots touch but it's not as tight as the remington i just mentioned above... that doesn't bother me tho since it is still cock on close... oh, i had norman johnson machine the shroud for a 2 position sideswing saftey, he did a beautifull job with the machine work and the bluing. if i had it to do over i'd probably go with a #2 contour barrel for the sake of shaving a little weight off the gun but thats pretty minor...
Out of Box rifles
I have 3 I guess.
Remington 700 BDL in 6mm Remington. Shoots hand loads in little bitty groups. 1/2 inch all day and less than 1/2 inch on a good shooting day. Shoots Remington core lock factory loads 1/2 inch on a good day at 100 yards.
Remington 700 BDL DBM SS in 25-06. Shoots hand loads 1.5 inches at 300 yards. Did that one a few times. 1/2 inch all day at 100. Shoots Federal premiums 1/2 inch at 100.
T/C Venture. Never shot factory loads very much. Hand loaded 130 grain Hornady SSTs 1/2 inch at 100 yards.
I would bet they would shoot better with a better shooter behind them. I am happy with 1 inch groups at 100 yards with hunting rifles.
I have Nikon 3-9x40 on all 3 rifles.
Darin
I have 3 I guess.
Remington 700 BDL in 6mm Remington. Shoots hand loads in little bitty groups. 1/2 inch all day and less than 1/2 inch on a good shooting day. Shoots Remington core lock factory loads 1/2 inch on a good day at 100 yards.
Remington 700 BDL DBM SS in 25-06. Shoots hand loads 1.5 inches at 300 yards. Did that one a few times. 1/2 inch all day at 100. Shoots Federal premiums 1/2 inch at 100.
T/C Venture. Never shot factory loads very much. Hand loaded 130 grain Hornady SSTs 1/2 inch at 100 yards.
I would bet they would shoot better with a better shooter behind them. I am happy with 1 inch groups at 100 yards with hunting rifles.
I have Nikon 3-9x40 on all 3 rifles.
Darin
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My Savage 11F (sporter weight) 22-250 with a cheapy Bushnell 6-18x50AO Banner on it will put the Winchester USA white box 45grn hp's into 1/2 group if I do my part.
While building loads, I use Sightron SIII 8-32X56 Target Dot recticle scopes. The scopes are good enough that I can usually see the bullet holes in white paper and using splatter targets, you can easily see them.
I'm done with 243 and put a Nikon Monarch 3-9x40 hunting scope on it. While verifying settings saturday morning, I still shot a 7/8" group at 400yds with it.
No special equipment, a rear, sand filled, stock rest and front sand bag rest. Don't believe in using those special contraptions that hold the whole rifle and all you have to do it is put the cross hairs on the target.
Saturday, I did kinda do a dirty thing though. I let a new guy to rifle shooting, shoot the 22-250 at 100yds. He came out to the range with an SKS and 30/30 to target shoot. Both had open sights and I helped him zero them for him, then asked if he wanted to try mine. Having never used a scope, I coached him through adjusting it and had it on 24X so he could see his bullet holes with no problems. After each shot, he would say, you need to look at that. He shot about a 3/8", five shot group and thought that was amazing, the gun will do better than that. He was going to get a scope for his 30/30. I didn't have the heart to tell him just any scope would do that, and that scope cost almost twice what he just paid for both his guns, and there was no way under the sun he was going to be able to do that with his 30/30. He was a long time pistol shooter so he knew how to squeeze a trigger.
I'm done with 243 and put a Nikon Monarch 3-9x40 hunting scope on it. While verifying settings saturday morning, I still shot a 7/8" group at 400yds with it.
No special equipment, a rear, sand filled, stock rest and front sand bag rest. Don't believe in using those special contraptions that hold the whole rifle and all you have to do it is put the cross hairs on the target.
Saturday, I did kinda do a dirty thing though. I let a new guy to rifle shooting, shoot the 22-250 at 100yds. He came out to the range with an SKS and 30/30 to target shoot. Both had open sights and I helped him zero them for him, then asked if he wanted to try mine. Having never used a scope, I coached him through adjusting it and had it on 24X so he could see his bullet holes with no problems. After each shot, he would say, you need to look at that. He shot about a 3/8", five shot group and thought that was amazing, the gun will do better than that. He was going to get a scope for his 30/30. I didn't have the heart to tell him just any scope would do that, and that scope cost almost twice what he just paid for both his guns, and there was no way under the sun he was going to be able to do that with his 30/30. He was a long time pistol shooter so he knew how to squeeze a trigger.
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Had a Remington M700 BDL with the heavy barrel in .22-250. 4-12 Redfield, back in 1972. After sighting it in the very first three shot group at 100 yards all went into the same hole, using factory fresh ammunition. Believe it or not, I traded the rifle in because I became bored with it. It would do 1/4" groups day in and day out. Didn't leave me any incentive to handload or try to make the rifle more accurate. I could find NO fault with the rifle.
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What bullets are you shooting out of the 250. I would like to see some targets!
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Well my most accurate guns are, a Bushmaster Varmiter Special 223, it has a 24" heavy stainless barrel, with a Leupold Mark AR 4-12 scope, will shoot 1/4" and under 5 shot groups at 100 yards all day long. My most accurate rifle is a Savage BVSS 22-250 with a VXIII 6.5-20 trg retical, it will shoot bullet after bullet in the same hole at 100 yards, you will think you have actually missed the target after the first shot, I cant beleive the way it shoots. I also have a Remington 700 Sendero in 300 RUM with a Leupold VXIII 6.5-20 Lr mil dot. that will consistently one hole groups at 100 yards.
Really?
I am curious how good your "customs" that you say "will almost make competition bench rest rifles" shoot when your over the counter rifles already shoot better than a benchrest rifle will shoot. Do you realize that you are claiming that factory, out of the box guns that you have owned for a month or so are shooting .18 MOA or better groups at 400 yds repeatedly and some smaller than .125 MOA? That level of accuracy would most likely win or at least be very competitive in any IBS or NBRSA match even in the heavy gun classes. Check some benchrest results for yourself. These matches are not held at 400 yds but are held at 300 and 600 and a competitive group at 600 yds is in the 2"-3" range (which is .3-.5 MOA) and that is with $3,000 and up custom rifles with custom actions, hand lapped match barrels, glue in stocks, tight match chambers, specialized loading techniques and the best target shooters with lots of wind reading experience. I own one Tikka varmint and 4 Tikka sporters and can't achieve anywhere near that level of accuracy.These guns will do .5-.7 MOA or so out to 200 yds but drop off to about 1MOA at 400 and 500 yds which I think is wonderful for a factory gun. I also own and build competition target rifles myself so I have a pretty good idea how HARD it is to achive 1/2" groups at 400yds. Where do you shoot? If it's not too long of a drive, I would like to see these .125 MOA out of the box sporter rifles shoot because you are doing something that no one else has ever done that I am aware of.
BKeith
I am curious how good your "customs" that you say "will almost make competition bench rest rifles" shoot when your over the counter rifles already shoot better than a benchrest rifle will shoot. Do you realize that you are claiming that factory, out of the box guns that you have owned for a month or so are shooting .18 MOA or better groups at 400 yds repeatedly and some smaller than .125 MOA? That level of accuracy would most likely win or at least be very competitive in any IBS or NBRSA match even in the heavy gun classes. Check some benchrest results for yourself. These matches are not held at 400 yds but are held at 300 and 600 and a competitive group at 600 yds is in the 2"-3" range (which is .3-.5 MOA) and that is with $3,000 and up custom rifles with custom actions, hand lapped match barrels, glue in stocks, tight match chambers, specialized loading techniques and the best target shooters with lots of wind reading experience. I own one Tikka varmint and 4 Tikka sporters and can't achieve anywhere near that level of accuracy.These guns will do .5-.7 MOA or so out to 200 yds but drop off to about 1MOA at 400 and 500 yds which I think is wonderful for a factory gun. I also own and build competition target rifles myself so I have a pretty good idea how HARD it is to achive 1/2" groups at 400yds. Where do you shoot? If it's not too long of a drive, I would like to see these .125 MOA out of the box sporter rifles shoot because you are doing something that no one else has ever done that I am aware of.
All bullets are #39522, 50gr Nosler Ballistic Tips in the 22-250 and 95gr Ballistic Tips in the 243.
Why show targets, the next question would be whose to say they were at 400yds. After all, it's shooting better at 400yds than a lot of rifles will shot at 100 and 200 Also, it's going to be hard to tell anything about those two because I was sticking black dots over them after each two groups, so now they just looks like a mass of back dots on a splatter target. I shot 60 rounds combined friday and saturday morning from the 22-250. The were six, five shot groups 1 1/4" and under, three 1 1/2", one group was 3/4". I was trying two different powders. five different powder weights and shot four groups of the same load that is working best just to make sure it's holding up. Some of the loads were Reloader 17, which I've been experimenting with in the 22-250 and is giving great results, the other is Varget, which is the main powder I'm working with now and getting pretty close to nailing a final load. My only concern with this load is, while it's shooting great now, it's cold weather, I'm seating the bullets .012" into the lands with a pretty hot load, and pressures are right on the edge of being way TOO high now. I had to full length resize 20 pieces of brass to get them to chamber smoothly after the pounding they took friday. I've got to do some more test on lower seating depths or a reduced charge because I'm sure come summer, it will push pressures over the edge.
Why show targets, the next question would be whose to say they were at 400yds. After all, it's shooting better at 400yds than a lot of rifles will shot at 100 and 200 Also, it's going to be hard to tell anything about those two because I was sticking black dots over them after each two groups, so now they just looks like a mass of back dots on a splatter target. I shot 60 rounds combined friday and saturday morning from the 22-250. The were six, five shot groups 1 1/4" and under, three 1 1/2", one group was 3/4". I was trying two different powders. five different powder weights and shot four groups of the same load that is working best just to make sure it's holding up. Some of the loads were Reloader 17, which I've been experimenting with in the 22-250 and is giving great results, the other is Varget, which is the main powder I'm working with now and getting pretty close to nailing a final load. My only concern with this load is, while it's shooting great now, it's cold weather, I'm seating the bullets .012" into the lands with a pretty hot load, and pressures are right on the edge of being way TOO high now. I had to full length resize 20 pieces of brass to get them to chamber smoothly after the pounding they took friday. I've got to do some more test on lower seating depths or a reduced charge because I'm sure come summer, it will push pressures over the edge.
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I guess I should give up on all my high dollar custom rifles, and start buying Tikka's.
My most accurate semi-factory is a worked over Ruger M77 MkII. Hart barrel, Rifle Basics trigger, Houge stock. .243 Win, shooting Nosler 95 gr BT's. Shoots in the 0.3's to 0.7's depending on the day, weather... me..... My best with this rilfe at a distance further than 100 yards was a 0.8XX" (can't remember the other numbers) group at 200. That was the only group I've ever shot past 100 with this rifle. 5 shot groups of course.
Not a factory gun, but it once was!
I guess I did once ownd a Benelli R1 in .300 win mag that shot fairly well. Can't remember what it did at 100 but at 550 yards once I had a 10" group. Not bad for a 9 power scope and an auto loader.
My most accurate semi-factory is a worked over Ruger M77 MkII. Hart barrel, Rifle Basics trigger, Houge stock. .243 Win, shooting Nosler 95 gr BT's. Shoots in the 0.3's to 0.7's depending on the day, weather... me..... My best with this rilfe at a distance further than 100 yards was a 0.8XX" (can't remember the other numbers) group at 200. That was the only group I've ever shot past 100 with this rifle. 5 shot groups of course.
Not a factory gun, but it once was!
I guess I did once ownd a Benelli R1 in .300 win mag that shot fairly well. Can't remember what it did at 100 but at 550 yards once I had a 10" group. Not bad for a 9 power scope and an auto loader.
Spitefire
I also own some $2,500 that both of these Tikka's are out shooting. The 243 got to shooting so good is why I bought the 22-250 in a Tikka Varmint. Both of these are the first two production rifles I've bought in the last 30 years because I am an accuracy nut and never felt a production rifle would shoot accurate enough. Also don't get me wrong here either, I'm not trying to belittle your rifle but I've not known Ruger actions for their bug hole accuracy. I've never seen or heard of one used in comptition and that's what I use base the quality of and action on. For all my customs I've used Remington 700 or BAT actions.
I will give you a little hint that really closed the groups up in the 243 when I went to the 95 grain bullets. Get your hands on some Reloader 17. I'm shooting 41 grains of R-17 with them and it's shooting single hole three shot groups at 100yds. There is also a hellava lot of brass prep that's going into loads. My brass is preped just the same as if I was shooting competition.
I also own some $2,500 that both of these Tikka's are out shooting. The 243 got to shooting so good is why I bought the 22-250 in a Tikka Varmint. Both of these are the first two production rifles I've bought in the last 30 years because I am an accuracy nut and never felt a production rifle would shoot accurate enough. Also don't get me wrong here either, I'm not trying to belittle your rifle but I've not known Ruger actions for their bug hole accuracy. I've never seen or heard of one used in comptition and that's what I use base the quality of and action on. For all my customs I've used Remington 700 or BAT actions.
I will give you a little hint that really closed the groups up in the 243 when I went to the 95 grain bullets. Get your hands on some Reloader 17. I'm shooting 41 grains of R-17 with them and it's shooting single hole three shot groups at 100yds. There is also a hellava lot of brass prep that's going into loads. My brass is preped just the same as if I was shooting competition.
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In a deer gun, my Marlin XL-7 is the most consistantly accurate gun I've ever owned or seen shot. Just about any good bullet will shoot under 1" and the 165SST/Accu-tips shoot under .75" day in and day out. 180gr Noslers shoot under .5" and have given me groups as small as .197' and .274". It wore a Simmons 3-10x44 Pro-Hunter when I shot those groups, and now wears a Bushnell Trophy XLT 3-9-40.
The best group I've ever shot with a deer rifle was with my Marlin XS-7 carbine in 308. It put 3 shots [130gr Speer HP] into a group measuring .101" at 100yds. It will keep 150gr hornady SP under .75" for an average too. It wears a Simmons 3-9x40 Pro-Hunter
I also have a Savage 112FVSS-S that will shoot 52gr Speer HPs under .5" all day long. It wears a 6-24x40 Tasco High Country
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The most accurate rifle I've ever owned is my Browning A-Bolt II .270 WIN with BOSS. Nikon Buckmasters 3-9X40 scope. It shoots sub-MOA most of the time, with best a 5 shot group of .25". I bought it brand new in 1996 for $475.
I have a couple Ruger M77 Compacts (.243 and 260) that occasionally shoot tiny groups, but they average around 1.25" at 100 yards. Both have 2-7X scopes. I bought one new in 2008 for $600, the other used last year for $300.
I've had two budget-model Winchesters (30-06 and 270 WIN) and a Marlin lever 30-30 that I never got to shoot well enough to keep them. (I like Winchesters, but the budget Wal-Mart specials with cheap plastic stocks just didn't work for me.)
I have a couple Ruger M77 Compacts (.243 and 260) that occasionally shoot tiny groups, but they average around 1.25" at 100 yards. Both have 2-7X scopes. I bought one new in 2008 for $600, the other used last year for $300.
I've had two budget-model Winchesters (30-06 and 270 WIN) and a Marlin lever 30-30 that I never got to shoot well enough to keep them. (I like Winchesters, but the budget Wal-Mart specials with cheap plastic stocks just didn't work for me.)
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BK, the Ruger is no longer factory and I know Ruger in general are not known for accuracy. However, This is the second one I have owned, the first a M77 Tang in .22-250, that was floated, bedded, and Rifle Basics trigger. With a factory barrel it would consistenly shoot around 3/4" at 100.
I think the big factor with the .243 is the Hart barrel, and the trigger is amazing. I have not used Rifle basics before this one, but this one really surprised me. When it moves it fires. zero creep, almost zero backlash.
I also do all the fun brass prep too. Never said I didn't believe you, I just know how hard it is to make a rifle shoot that well.
I had a Tikka T3 once too in .25-06, Shot 5 test rounds before I shot 1 deer and sold it for a custom. Shot good, but never shot groups with it. I have thought about getting a T3 Varmint in .308 anyways, but i'm stuck between the Tikka, and the CZ 550 varmint.
I think the big factor with the .243 is the Hart barrel, and the trigger is amazing. I have not used Rifle basics before this one, but this one really surprised me. When it moves it fires. zero creep, almost zero backlash.
I also do all the fun brass prep too. Never said I didn't believe you, I just know how hard it is to make a rifle shoot that well.
I had a Tikka T3 once too in .25-06, Shot 5 test rounds before I shot 1 deer and sold it for a custom. Shot good, but never shot groups with it. I have thought about getting a T3 Varmint in .308 anyways, but i'm stuck between the Tikka, and the CZ 550 varmint.
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