Shooters Forum banner

Rifle Carry

3092 Views 46 Replies 13 Participants Last post by  Combat Diver
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ibrf11F-qc

I was considering a carry handle for my Bushmaster AR 15 after watching this video any thoughts?
21 - 40 of 47 Posts
Osama was supposedly killed with an H&K M416 which is actually a different type of proprietary system. It's based on the 5.56 cartridge but utilizes a short stroke piston system and a few other modifications. It shares almost no parts with an AR15, M4, or M16.

Here is the civilian legal version of the H&K 416 but it does actually share more parts with the M4/M16 platform than the real HK M416.

MR556A1 - Heckler & Koch
That's cool Trent that does look a lot like the M4.
With a small house and kids, I'll stick to a handgun. Not to spin up the old argument of what's best for self defense in a house.
Agreed, but most people won't bother to build a skill set to use a handgun at anything other than close range and then comes tactical skills, another problem.

When we were doing a lot of stuff to develop stages and things that ended up at gunsite during Cooper's days, we built a fun house and trying anything anyone could think of to use inside and handguns are best tactically, shotguns are easy to take away, etc.

Most fun was a huge machine shop that Mike Horne converted for the "Shop shoots" all indoors with wax bullets and anyone invited had an established skill set to handle it safely.
I don't know about that grabbing for the gun in the dark.. it might not be such a bad thing.
Ever think about practicing until you're competent?
I am not that keen on a carry handle that gets in the way of optics or good sight picture .
On an AR 15 it's just eye candy I used to carry an M16 as a back up and an SLR 7.62 Nato at the same time . For home defence keep the gun as clean and uncomplicated as possible as you may have to use it in tight places a Colt Commando would be good.
On a heavy gun I like a side handle that does not get in the way of optics etc. This is my side handle design on an alloy chassis I built it carries in the upside down or side position and slides back and forth to balance the rig with different scopes and barrel weights . The photo looks like it's taken on Mars because it was 41 degrees Celsius that day . The rifle weighs 17 lb so you don't carry it too far but it's meant to be heavy to absorb recoil and movement .

Attachments

See less See more
  • Like
Reactions: 1
I am not that keen on a carry handle that gets in the way of optics or good sight picture .
On an AR 15 it's just eye candy I used to carry an M16 as a back up and an SLR 7.62 Nato at the same time . For home defence keep the gun as clean and uncomplicated as possible as you may have to use it in tight places a Colt Commando would be good.
On a heavy gun I like a side handle that does not get in the way of optics etc. This is my side handle design on an alloy chassis I built it carries in the upside down or side position and slides back and forth to balance the rig with different scopes and barrel weights . The photo looks like it's taken on Mars because it was 41 degrees Celsius that day . The rifle weighs 17 lb so you don't carry it too far but it's meant to be heavy to absorb recoil and movement .
Well I'm proud to say back in the good old days we shot sling prone and iron sights. Being a lot older, when I pull the barrel off my test M1A and put on a Kreiger, I'll bed it in a McMillan M3A adjustable stock and may start using a bipod. Since my collar bone is broken, the mass of the McMillan does help with recoil.
I am not that keen on a carry handle that gets in the way of optics or good sight picture .
On an AR 15 it's just eye candy I used to carry an M16 as a back up and an SLR 7.62 Nato at the same time . For home defence keep the gun as clean and uncomplicated as possible as you may have to use it in tight places a Colt Commando would be good.
On a heavy gun I like a side handle that does not get in the way of optics etc. This is my side handle design on an alloy chassis I built it carries in the upside down or side position and slides back and forth to balance the rig with different scopes and barrel weights . The photo looks like it's taken on Mars because it was 41 degrees Celsius that day . The rifle weighs 17 lb so you don't carry it too far but it's meant to be heavy to absorb recoil and movement .
With all due respect your "heavy gun" that you have in the picture would not be the gun I'd reach for during a break in. Uncomplicated is good and I do fancy the idea of open sights for a quick target acquisition and reliability I've never heard anyone complain about their open sights getting fogged up or the batteries dying.
With all due respect your "heavy gun" that you have in the picture would not be the gun I'd reach for during a break in. Uncomplicated is good and I do fancy the idea of open sights for a quick target acquisition and reliability I've never heard anyone complain about their open sights getting fogged up or the batteries dying.
You are right there mate but if you did run out of ammo you could beat them to death with that sucker :D . I was mainly just showing the side mounted handle .
  • Like
Reactions: 2
Well I'm proud to say back in the good old days we shot sling prone and iron sights. Being a lot older, when I pull the barrel off my test M1A and put on a Kreiger, I'll bed it in a McMillan M3A adjustable stock and may start using a bipod. Since my collar bone is broken, the mass of the McMillan does help with recoil.
A bit of extra weight is ok in a gun you don't carry too far . Makes them more pleasant to shoot and more accurate . With my rig full power loads in 243 W using 87 grain bullets is like firing a 223 .
The bipod and rear cantilever monopod also absorb some recoil when on the dirt .
It hurts less to carry it around a bit than it does to suffer the constant recoil of a light weight rifle after dozens of shots .
243W is not that bad recoil anyway but it also has a 30-06 IMP barrel which does boot a fair bit and I'm thinking of adding a 300 WM barrel some day.
  • Like
Reactions: 1
You are right there mate but if you did run out of ammo you could beat them to death with that sucker :D . I was mainly just showing the side mounted handle .
The handle is cool I don't know why in this modern day the big manufacturer names can't put all the great features together in one gun. I think the Bushmaster ACR from what I read was an example of a gallant but failed attempt.
  • Like
Reactions: 1
The handle is cool I don't know why in this modern day the big manufacturer names can't put all the great features together in one gun. I think the Bushmaster ACR from what I read was an example of a gallant but failed attempt.
I think if they made one model the perfect gun they would not sell many of the other models .
It's almost impossible to please everyone with the same gun . We all have our personal likes and dislikes and that will never change. Keeps the industry alive also.
  • Like
Reactions: 1
The handle is cool I don't know why in this modern day the big manufacturer names can't put all the great features together in one gun. I think the Bushmaster ACR from what I read was an example of a gallant but failed attempt.
The ACR is a little too front heavy because the barrel nut wrench is attached to the barrel nut. If they would have made it removable to put in the stock it would have ballenced better. Commercially it flopped because they still haven't delivered on the caliber conversions or even the promise of more aftermarket parts and accessories.


If you want a super cool modular rifle that operates on a piston system. Try this out, I've got two of them and am going to add a 3rd. And you can order pretty much any spare part you need direct from them. They will even do somewhat custom work for us little guys if we ask and throw down the money. They are a rather large manufacturer with some big overseas customers.

https://lwrci.com/c-190-ic-556-nato.aspx
Agreed, but most people won't bother to build a skill set to use a handgun at anything other than close range and then comes tactical skills, another problem.

When we were doing a lot of stuff to develop stages and things that ended up at gunsite during Cooper's days, we built a fun house and trying anything anyone could think of to use inside and handguns are best tactically, shotguns are easy to take away, etc.

Most fun was a huge machine shop that Mike Horne converted for the "Shop shoots" all indoors with wax bullets and anyone invited had an established skill set to handle it safely.
Effective performance with firearms of any kind in a life or death struggle is not just about "skill sets on paper " . The best target shooter in the World could completely fail due to fear as the target may be now shooting back . It's the same with soldiers sometimes the soldier that tops every course and is the poster boy for the Army will fail in real combat . I have seen it happen .
I agree you have to gain proficiency on paper targets because that is what we have mostly to train on but it is also important to instil in pupils a sense of confidence and bravery in the person that they can win in a gun fight and they will survive , Some will develop that confidence and some will not . However being the best shot on paper is not all that you need to survive .
The reason the 5.56mm NATO round is so widely used is because the Congress never put forth the money to design and field a new weapon when the M-16 was found to be not what combat soldiers wanted or needed to kill the enemy. The M-16 entered the battlefield about 1964 or 1965. That is the very same period during which LBJ began spending umpteen billions on welfare. To LBJ, the votes of those on welfare in the States were more important than the lives of our young men in Vietnam. Now fifty-some years on, it's far too expensive to bring forth a new weapon that would have essentially zero parts interface with the M-16.

A better M-16 would have a bigger bullet, like a .243" or a .257" bullet; maybe even a .270" bullet. That would require a different lower receiver, a different bolt-carrier group and a different barrel. The government has multiple companies that manufacture these items. To retool would cost bazillions. We're $20 trillion in debt-- we don't have the money. I forgot: We'd have to come-up with a new case having a larger head so as to provide more powder space for the bigger bullet. More money...
Let's call it what is:

In the 1860's the US fought a war with democrats to end slavery. In the 1960's, democrats re-instituted slavery in the US via their Great Welfare Program. Welfare is slavery.


Back on topic: I use both my S&W 329PD in .44 Mag (with .44 Specials) and my AR-15 carbine for home defense. However, I live out in the sticks, don't have close neighbors (<1/4 mile) and I'm 1/2 - 1 hours away from local LEO response. It's only my wife and I here (unless we have guests) and we're retired.

I use 62 grn soft points in the AR.
In the 1860s, the US fought a war with Democrats to end slavery. In the 1960s, Democrats re-instituted slavery in the US via their Great Welfare [Society] program. Welfare is slavery.
A thousand Likes for you!
Most of the info Ive seen indicates the 5.56 overpenetrates less in buildings than most handgun ammo and shotgun buck or slug loads.

Didn't watch the video. I like the carry handle uppers as an iron sighted gun, the detachable carry handles don't give as much room for the thumb the way most used to carry one handed (and which I like for field carry). They also are hard to get much of your fingers through for handle only carry compared to the carry handle uppers.
Not to start a dispute but my house AR has a .300 Black Out barrel and 110 gr spire pt varmint bullets in the Magpul. Far superior to the 5.56 in my opinion for dealing with human critters in the house.
  • Like
Reactions: 1
Not to start a dispute but my house AR has a .300 Black Out barrel and 110 gr spire pt varmint bullets in the Magpul. Far superior to the 5.56 in my opinion for dealing with human critters in the house.
.300 BLK really offers no to little performance increase over 5.56. You get a heavier bullet with better sectional density so it will penetrate a little better to a small degree. But you lose a lot of case capacity, .300BLK has little to no case capacity because it is a 5.56 case chopped almost by 35% and now you stuff a bigger bullet in it. And downrange energy is less than many loads in 5.56/.223.

.300blk will overpenetrate far more than .223/5.56. The only real benefit if you want to call it one. It will vary if it is a benefit mainly if you shoot with a suppressor. Is that .300blk can be loaded subsonic with a sound suppressor and is very fun and quiet to shoot. It is essentially the same thing as shooting a suppressed pistol cartridge though.

I've pondered a .300BLK recently since I now own a couple sound suppressors I can run it through. The one I shot was very cool in the fact that the trigger reset was louder than the sound of the muzzle blast. Honestly I'd rather have a pistol caliber carbine though. :)

It does make good hog medicine inside about 200 yards! I already have 6.8 SPC for that though!
See less See more
Most of the info Ive seen indicates the 5.56 overpenetrates less in buildings than most handgun ammo and shotgun buck or slug loads.

Didn't watch the video. I like the carry handle uppers as an iron sighted gun, the detachable carry handles don't give as much room for the thumb the way most used to carry one handed (and which I like for field carry). They also are hard to get much of your fingers through for handle only carry compared to the carry handle uppers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1rwZ3WtMrY

I have to urge you to watch this video it might change your mind it did mine and I was a big shotgun fan.
The reason the 5.56mm NATO round is so widely used is because the Congress never put forth the money to design and field a new weapon when the M-16 was found to be not what combat soldiers wanted or needed to kill the enemy. The M-16 entered the battlefield about 1964 or 1965. That is the very same period during which LBJ began spending umpteen billions on welfare. To LBJ, the votes of those on welfare in the States were more important than the lives of our young men in Vietnam. Now fifty-some years on, it's far too expensive to bring forth a new weapon that would have essentially zero parts interface with the M-16.

A better M-16 would have a bigger bullet, like a .243" or a .257" bullet; maybe even a .270" bullet. That would require a different lower receiver, a different bolt-carrier group and a different barrel. The government has multiple companies that manufacture these items. To retool would cost bazillions. We're $20 trillion in debt-- we don't have the money. I forgot: We'd have to come-up with a new case having a larger head so as to provide more powder space for the bigger bullet. More money...
I could not agree more.

The 6.8SPC really looked like it had a chance to replace the 5.56 but cost and logistics came into play.
The 6.5s (Grendel, Lapua, Creedmore) all look like good candidates. But as you point out, cost of replacing the lower, upper, barrel . . . etc.

Also add in replacing the Stoner DI system, and really you have an entirely new rifle, which is what we really need.
Then there is the New Equipment Training (NET teams) cost.

So, instead of spending the money for a new rifle with a new, better round, the Army spent some money to produce the M855EPR to overcome the limitations and deficiencies of the M855.
Time will tell if the increased pressure of the EPR reduces the life of the rifle or not.
SF developed the Mk318.

Sources:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.56×45mm_NATO
And time spent in Afghanistan.
See less See more
Osama was supposedly killed with an H&K M416 which is actually a different type of proprietary system. It's based on the 5.56 cartridge but utilizes a short stroke piston system and a few other modifications. It shares almost no parts with an AR15, M4, or M16.

The SCAR17 is a nice rifle but has some minor things I personaly don't like about it and the thing with weight isn't really the rifle, it's the ammo. 7.62x51 weighs considerably more than a 5.56x45. But the 6.8x43 does not weigh much more than a 5.56x45. The 6.8x43 rifle also weighs only 1 or 2 more Ounces than a 5.56x45 rifle.

You can carry more 5.56x45 or 6.8x43 ammo than you could 7.62x51.



Here is the civilian legal version of the H&K 416 but it does actually share more parts with the M4/M16 platform than the real HK M416.

MR556A1 - Heckler & Koch
Seals, Delta Force and other SOF dropped the M4 like a steaming hot potato when HK came out with the 416.

+1 about the ammo.
I would rather have a round that does it all, than one that only is good at one thing.
I would like to have a rifle in one of the 6.5s but the 7.62x51 does the same.
21 - 40 of 47 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top