[halfbreed]

O.K. guys what is going on? the other day I fired 150 rounds of 240 gn, swc with only 9.2 gns of bullseye podwer. this is the first time I have noticed any flame cutting at all. In a s&w 629 3"bbl. I did not shoot the bbl too hot.
I was thinking of a different powder for near full house loads. But if this slow powder is going to eat my pistol, I would certainly hate to only shoot .44 spcl's. That would certainly be no fun. I am/was thinking about BLUE DOT, for about 1450 fps. any thoughts, good or bad? I know you folks can come up with something.

 

[Jack Monteith]

Hi, Halfbreed:
From what I understand flame cutting only goes so far and stops. My well used S&W 28-2 has a notch about 1/32" wide and deep, about enough to hook a fingernail in.

Bye
Jack

 

[halfbreed]

Hello Jack, Thanks for the reply, that is what I have heard from some others. I was really wondering if something was going on with the bullseye loading, it should not be that hot.I have gotten a new 255swc mold. Lee, and will be trying it out soon hopefully. I am thinking about a different powder maybe Red dot, I keep hearing h-110 is a full on powder or none at all. And would prefer about 1400-1450 fps in a 3"bbl.
Thanks again, John

 

[kciH]

Halfbreed,
I agree with what Jack posted. The flame cutting usually makes a little groove when the gun is first used and then that's it. It pays to continue checking when you clean your revolver to ensure it's not getting out of hand. This is reminiscent of the reason that the 357Max from Ruger was discontinued. My 29 Classic Hunter developed a little flame cutting when it was new and hasn't worsened after 5k+ of factory equivalent handloads. For plinking rounds I use about 7grs of 231 behind a 245-255gr Keith bullet in a 44Spec case. That load would, and has, taken whitetail at up to 25 yds with no problem. For full power stuff I use primarily 296 and #9, both of which are similar to H110 as far as performance goes. The above powders are best relegated to full power loads and are not suitable for reduced power loads. I've found all of them to be cleaner than Blue Dot as far as gunk goes but the ball powders leave a different kind of mess than the flake stuff from what I've seen. If you want full power loads suited to the shorter barrel you're using, you might want to try powders a step faster than the above, but I think they are hard to beat. I've had very good luck with AA#7 in short barreled .41 mag loads, works great with cast bullets as well.

 

[Chief RID]

OK. The novice has to ask. Flame cutting? Is it the ring that developes in a revolver chamber ahead of the brass/bullet line?

As far as powder and the 44 mag are concerned, I just bought my 1st pound of H-110 several weeks ago. I loaded some 240 gr. XTPs and some 240 gr. Mid-Kansas RNFP over 23.0,23.5 and 24 gr. of H-110 and shot them in the 1894. More recoil than I want, even in the rifle. The accuracy suffered even from the bench but I think it was due to recoil. With the factory trigger and my obvious sensitivity to recoil I am going back to my 13 gr of Blue Dot for the hunting loads. I can shoot these in the 5.5 inch SBH also for a hunting load.

The fun load for me that still has a little punch is the 240 gr over 9.5 gr. of Universal or 7.9 gr. Green Dot.

The most accurate bullet I have shot yet in the 1894 or the SBH is the 220 gr. Sierra FPJ. Don't make a lick of since, I know but, it is just plain accurate. A friend sold me some when I first started loading and they have been very suprising.

I may try some H-110 in some Special loadings but in the magnum they are just too much for me. When accuracy suffers because of powder choice there is only one thing to do. Change powder.

 

[kciH]

Chief,
Flame cutting occurs in the top strap of the frame above the barrel-cylinder gap. It is caused by the leakage of gasses from the between the cylinder and barrel. It is common to have with magnum revolvers, it develops when new and then stops. If the H110,296, AA#9 loads are too much, I'd try AA#7. It works well and will produce near maximum velocities when called upon to do so. #5 is also a good choice for reduced loads and lead bullets and will produce high powered loads also. I've never been a fan of trying to reach magnum velocities with very quick powders as the pressure is higher than with the slower numbers.

 

[Jack Monteith]

Hi, Gents:
Alliant shows 9.8 grains of Bullseye as max with a 240 grains lead gas-checked bullet, so 9.2 is getting warm. The velocity isn't there, but pressure and temperature is. Alliant 2400 is much more flexible than the ball powders for reduced loads. That gives you a better chance to find the sweet spot. Red Dot and Green Dot aren't any better than Bulleye, according to Alliant. You can gain a bit with Unique, but nowhere near what 2400 can get you. I haven't tried Blue Dot but I hear it's not too good with reduced loads either, and the shotgunners avoid it in low temperature loads.

Since it's -10°F, I've fooled around with the scanner and I'll try to post the .44 Magnum data from the 1997 Alliant manual.

Bye
Jack

 

[safetysheriff]

I PUT SOME OF THE MOLY' TYPE AUTOMOTIVE FRONT-END GREASE ON A RAG AND WIPE IT AROUND THE FRAME OF THE REVOLVER WHERE THE FLAME CUTTING COULD TAKE PLACE. THE MOLYBDENUM DISULFIDE 'ETCHES' ITS WAY INTO THE METAL AND TOUGHENS IT UP. {CHROME-MOLY RIFLE BARRELS CONTAIN MOLYBDENUM(IT'S THE "MOLY").} THE GREASE MELTS, ABSORBS SOME OF THE HEAT, AND THE MOLY' HAS ALREADY ETCHED' ITS WAY INTO THE METAL, AS I SAID BEFORE.

PUT THE GREASE(I USE VALVOLINE 'DURABLEND') ONTO YOUR GUNS WHEN YOU FIRST UNPACK THEM BEFORE EVER TAKING THEM TO A RANGE. IT WILL HELP PREVENT RUST, TOO. IT CAN ALSO BE USED ON THE LUGS OF ANY BOLT ACTIONS(ESPECIALLY STAINLESS STEEL TYPES) TO KEEP THEM FROM GALLING.

ALLIANT 2400 IS REPUTEDLY EASIER ON ERODING REVOLVER FORCING CONES THAN ARE EITHER "296" OR "H110". I WOULD GUESS THAT ITS ALSO EASIER ON FLAME CUTTING.


BEST REGARDS.

 

[ribbonstone2]

High pressure gas and particles coming from that flash gap are going to erode a cut into the steel directly above the gap....should follow the inverse square law, so the cut will be self limiting. How come .44's are more prone to it than .357's on the same frame size?...becasue the edge of a .44 cylinder is closer to the frame (and if you ran the same sized .cylinder in .45 to the same pressure, it would be a worse offender).

Volume plays a part as well, not just peak pressure. Think of the the peak pressure as the temperature of the gas, and the volume of the case as setting the length of time.

-------------
If it really really bothers you, can have the revolver de-barreled, and a thin bit of really hard/dense material dovetailed in across the gap.
----------
One last thought, the forcing cone has to stand up to the same abuse, and this is where barrels wear out first (cylinder mouths also have to stand up to it...but the wear is split up by 6 cylinders).

 

[halfbreed]

well fellas, I took the pistol to the smith/dealer I bought it from. He's going to bevel the forcing cone a little, and do a few other little things as well. When I can do without it for a few days. Well back to packing the 357 Dan Wesson for a few.
Hopefully this wont take too long.

 

[J Miller]

This is for Chief RID,

The line directly above the rear of the barrel is flame cutting or erosion. It started on this old 28 years ago with Win 630 powder. I finally had to have the barrel set back and the forcing cone recut because of severe erosion.

 

[Jack Monteith]

Hi, J:
I'd say mine's cut a bit less than 1/2 yours. Of course you know what this is. ·)÷(·

Bye
Jack

 

[J Miller]

Of course you know what this is. ·)÷(·

Sorry Jack I don't. I searched several sources of emoticons and didn't find this one. Whatsit mean???

The ammount of flame cutting on my Mdl 28 took over 20 years to get this bad. It was, I'm sure caused by several factors. Excessive barrel cylinder gap, the Win 630 loads I used to use, some of the powders I have used, and then contributed to by the erosion of the rear of the barrel.
It is fixed now, as my pic shows and it is shooting great.

 

[Jack Monteith]

Hi, J:
Most M28s have the ·)÷(· stamped on the right side of the barrel, between .357 CTG. and HIGHWAY PATROLMAN. There was a long thread about it's meaning on the S&W forum a while back and apparently someone at S&W picked it out of the blue.

Bye
Jack

 

[J Miller]

Boy do I feel stupid. You know I studied that symbol, knowing it was familiar in some way. Duh!!!

I guess I need to spend more time over at the S&W forum.
I'm a member, but I rarely get over there.

Thanks for learnin me something.
J

 

[MikeG]

If I recall, 630 or one of the other early Win ball powders was known for severe forcing cone erosion and flame-cutting of the topstrap. Not a problem in Contenders, though.

I have shot a lot of 296 without any significant flame-cutting of the topstraps of my revolvers. A little, mind you, but nothing that severe. So it's definitely something that your powder choice will influence.

 

[Chief RID]

Thanks for the pic J. I have not even looked at my SBH yet but now I know where to look and what to look for. You guys are just a veritable wealth of info.