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Discussion Starter #1
Down in the Handloading section we had an elightening discussion, sharing a few of our mistakes - some serious, and that made me think that there is a lot of knowledge out there regarding many aspects of gun, hunting and reloading SAFETY.

I would like to hear from others who may have an interest in sharing experiences and insights on this safety issue, with an eye toward adding a Forum component for it.

I will start things off by mentioning 3 items, 22 tube magazines, bolt action rifle security, and wheel gun security.

1. 22 tube magazines. I have on several occasions encountered 22 tube magazines that will hang a live round at the base, and give the appearence that there is not a round in the chamber. When the action is cycled, the rifle goes into battery, and the potential for deadly trouble begins. This can be due to a weak mag spring, or inadvertent disengagement of the tube plunger, or even dirty or small dents.

2. The use of trigger guards and various manufacturer locks on bolt rifles seems senseless to me when securing the rifle as it is so simple to remove and secure the bolt itself. An extra margin of safety can be accomplished by dropping the firing pin, as it takes both knowledge and strength to cock it out of the rifle, and it generally can't be reinstalled with the pin down. All 9 of my bolts go into a locked tool box, and the rifles are actually displayed in my "shooting room".

3. Revolvers are best secured by taking a standard padlock and locking it around the top strap with the cylinder open. This is cheap, simple and more effective than trigger locks or factory locks. For quick access, use a tine type combo lock and leave the cylinder loaded. This does not work for most single actions, however.
 

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SAFETY COMPONENT

HI LOADER,
HERE IS MY 2 CENTS WORTH:
RE: RANGE SAFETY WHEN THERE IS A BREAK TO SET OR RE-SET TARGETS WHERE ALL GUNS ARE LEFT ON THE BENCHES AND NO ONE ALLOWED NEAR THE BENCHES UNTIUL THE OK IS GIVEN TO SHOOT AGAIN.
WHITE, FIBERGLASS, SOLID, RODS CAN BE EASILY AFFIXED TO COLORED GOLFBALLS. THE RODS COME IN 20 FOOT LENGTHS AND ARE EASILY CUT WITH A HACKSAW OR PREFERABLY WITH A MOTO-TOOL. DRILL A HOLE IN A SOLID-CORE GOLFBALL ABOUT .005" SMALLER THAN THE ROD DIAMETER. POUND THE ROD INTO THE BALL. THE BALL WILL FURTHER SHRINK TO A TIGHT FIT WHERE YOUR HANDS WILL NOT BE ABLE TO PULL OFF THE BALL.
PLACING THE ROD DOWN A BARREL UNTIL IT HITS THE FACE OF A BOLT WHEN IT IS FULLY OPENED, WILL INSTANTLY SHOW A RANGE OFFICER THAT THAT GUN CANNOT FIRE IN THAT CONDITION.
I'VE MADE THOUSANDS OF THESE THINGS ONLY FOR ANOTHER APPLICATION THAN WHAT I SUGGEST. IN THE ARMY YEARS AGO, SOME ORGANIZATIONS SIMPLY USED RAM RODS AND REQUIRED THEM PLACED IN THE RIFLES ON THE FIRING LINE BEFORE DEPARTING THE FIRING LINE AND WAITING IN A SAFE AREA.
THE COLORED GOLF BALL IS MORE READILY SEEN FROM A DISTANCE, HOWEVER.
;) CHUCK
 

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Loader, couple months ago we got a 1903 win. .22 auto loader in the shop, the one with the plunger that runs through the forarm, and tube fed through the butt plate. 4 of us had checked it, the boss was sitting there playing with the plunger showing it to someone and pulled the trigger, the round that had been stuck in the tube had finally come loose and chambered on the last plunge. When it went off everybody dived for cover, it ricorshayed(sp) off two walls before becomming imbeded in a table top. Upon further inspection of the tube, there was a build up of dirt and oil that had caked up like hard grease, the rifle had been left loaded for many years and the one round became stuck in the goo, and finally worked loose in the shop. New policy check all Tubes and Plungers on firearms comming into the shop. No one got hurt but it shure got everyones attention.

Gun Runner
 

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1911A1 safety failure

Some years ago, I was at our local range shooting various guns, one being a civilian model 1911A1. It so happened that a firearms safety class was out there as well, for their range session. The instructor, also a club member, asked some of us to come over and let the young people fire our handguns. Wonderful idea, as we had been shooting for a couple of hours and were running out of ideas. While the instructor was prepping the kids, I loaded the magazine on my old Colt, charged a round in and holstered the pistol, safety on. A minute or two later, I pulled the gun out, aimed it downrange and squeezed the trigger. BANG! The safety was still on! Later inspection by a gunsmith showed the safety to be worn out. Cheap lesson - cocked and....... Were you going to say locked??? Think about all the times you see people relying on safeties......
 

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kjohn:
I had a similar experience several years ago. Now, I check my 1911s (and Hi-Powers) every time I load and carry them, in any condition. Just before going into the holster, I place the safety "on", point the pistol at the ground with my left thumb between the frame and the hammer and pull the trigger. If the safety is bad/worn/busted, the hammer falls on my thumb instead of the firing pin. It only takes a second, but lets you know if the safety is working or not.
 

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J.P.
Good one I'll pass along to all my friends with 1911's who like to carry condition 2, I don't own any and its first time I heard of this being possible with them. I don't think this is possible with my Ruger the safety designed so it will fire with safety in off position only. It would have to be "really" Broken to function with safety on!!!!:eek:

The biggest -Safety problem I have is other folks- and the way they shoot- I shoot mostly at an unapproved range-Sand pits. And I see alot of folks shoot that probably shouldn't be anywhere near a gun. It does get scary some times. Most violations seen are shooting at bad backstops- richetes hazards!! One day it was so bad I had to confront four indivduals that were just flinging lead all over, bullets flying everywhere. I jump in there ****, when I came screaming up on them blowing my horn and yelling. They were not happy but saw I was serious when I got out and had my P90 in my hand. That day I had quite afew rounds fly close enough to hear them with muffs on!!! Thankfully they haven't been around since then.:D
 

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SAFETY COMPONENT OF FORUM

HI GUYS,
EVERYONE SHOULD MAKE SURE THAT THEIR FIREARM IS IN GOOD CONDITION AND FUNCTIONING PROPERLY BEFORE THEY WALK OUT IN PUBLIC CARRYING IT----FOR WHATEVER REASON. THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR CARRYING AN UNSAFE FIREARM---NONE.
I REMEMBER BACK TO MY YOUTH WHEN RED RYDER WOULD MAKE PEOPLE AWARE OF THE TEN COMMANDMENTS OF GUN SAFETY. THEY ARE JUST AS IMPORTANT TODAY AS THEY EVER WERE. GUN MAGAZINES AND GUN STORES AND GUN RANGES SHOULD POST THEM ON THEIR WALLS IN LARGE PRINT !
WITH ALL THE NEW PEOPLE CARRYING CONCEALED GUNS, I AM CONCERNED NOT FOR THE SCUM BAGS THAT THEY MIGHT SHOOT, BUT FOR THE SHOOTER WHO DOES NOT KNOW WHEN HE CAN SHOOT. THE LAWS ARE ONLY LAWS, BUT IT IS THE COURT SYSTEM (NOTICE I DIDN'T SAY "JUSTICE SYSTEM") THAT TELLS YOU WHEN YOU CAN SHOOT ANOTHER PERSON. IT IS THE IMPLIMENTATION OF THE LAWS, NOT THE LAWS THERMSELVES.
FAULT CALIFORNIA ALL YOU WANT, BUT I CHAMPION THEIR COMPELLING A PERSON TO ATTAIN TRAINING IN THE CLASSROOM AND ON THE RANGE BEFORE THEY CAN CARRY CONCEALED. FANTASTIC !!
SOMEHOW THESE HUGE PROBLEMS MUST BE ADDRESSED IN NEW AND INTERESTING WAYS SO AS TO REACH THESE NEW PERMIT HOLDERS. THEY EWVEN SCARE ME, AND I DO NOT SCARE EASILY.
:( CHUCK
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Chuck -

Roger that. I teach gun safety, and my favorite trick is to palm a dummy round when working at the table with a semi automatic pistol. I pull the clip, with one in battery, and pull the slide part way back, dropping the palmed round on the table. Everyone "knows" for certain that it is empty.

I remind the closest sitting hotshot that it never empty, and he/she has no knowledge of a guns status unless they check it themselves...so, they check it themselves and out pops a round. They NEVER forget that one.

Its a cheap trick, but its really necessary to get some folks to learn the lesson. I don't feel guilty in the least. Its my job to make them safe operators, and I'll do that any way I can.
 

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LOADER, while I was in the service also did some small arms teaching, same thing leaving a dummy round in the 1911's most of my students were Jr. OFFICERS, about the 3rd one would pull back the slide and out popped the dummy round, use to be fun watching them dive for cover. Had several tell me they were gonna write me up for handing them a LOADED firearm, told them they werent paying attention. One wanted to know who the stupid idiot was that thought up that stupid trick. From the back of the room the CO (who had slipped into the back of the room) said he was the stupid idiot who thought of that! You could have heard a pin drop in that room. I did the best I could from laughing :D :D :D, and continued with the course. Think the CO had a word with his Jr Officer latter, ah gee. :rolleyes:

Gun Runner
 

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Yep # 1 priority when you pick up a weapon -you better know the status!! Even when I watch an armor safe and clear a weapon I do it again as soon as it gets in my hands!! That way it's my fualt if some happens as it would be anyways!!!
If its a weapon I've never used they will teach me on the spot on how to safely handle it or I will not except it!! :D
 

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MY RECENT MISTAKE

HI GUNNUT 45/454,

YOU AND I ARE ONE AND THE SAME, AND THOSE WORDS SHOULD HOLD TRUE WHENEVER A GUN OF ANY KIND IS HANDED TO YOU FROM ANYONE AND EVERYONE.

WE BOTH HAVE INVESTIGATED "SHOOTINGS" WHERE THIS SIMPLE SAFETY PRECAUTION WOULD POSSIBLY SAVED A LIKE OF SOMEONE VALUABLE TO SOCIETY.

:D CHUCK
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I have 2 daughters aged 11 and 14, and if they are in your house or car and see a firearm they will demand to inspect it or leave immediately. Believe me, they will know exactly how it functions.

They don't hunt, and don't like to shoot. They do, however, know what they need to know.
 

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As a teenager I had a Mossberg Bolt 12 ga. It was cocked by cam action of opening the bolt handle. This means the firing pin is cocked while cycling rounds. It discharged one day without apparent reason during a hunting trip. Lucky it went into the ground. I couldn't see anything wrong and continued to hunt but appied the safety immediatly upon closing the bolt. Later in the day I spooked at a pair of partriges. I dropped the first bird and as I rapidly worked the bolt for the second shot the gun fired with the bolt only half closed and almost touching my face. At least 1 1/2 inches of the shot shell was still exposed when it fired. The exposed shell exploded up into my face and I next remembered my partner shaking me. I couldn't hear or see him for several min. Fortunatly I was wearing safety glases and no permanent damage. I later found that a small key in the bolt was partially sheared and causing the sear to only partially engage the cocking mechanism. Somtimes it would be barley hanging on and a slight bump could fire the gun. A cheap fix but could have been deadly.
 

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The ONLY ND I have had was with an old tube fed 22 short pump. I cleared the rifle several times, it was left loaded for years. This one had to be uncocked each time you clear another round I let off on the hammer, cleared again until I did it 3 times without a shell ejecting. Closed the action and pulled the trigger, bang. Luckily I always make sure the weapon is pointed in a safe direction. It gave my brother and I a start but it only put a hole in the ceiling. This happened last Feb after 40+ yrs of shooting. This only re-enforces the assumption that a gun is always loaded even when proven not. Never Ever point it at someone or something you would not want to ventilate.
 

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My kids know two things that are burned into their minds: A gun is always loaded until you check the breach yourself: and keep your fingers out of the trigger guard if you are not on target and ready to fire. Both rules are strict law around my son's and myself.
 

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My dad was pretty serious about gun safety...as a kid, I was not allowed to point anything, except my finger, at a person. That included all of my toy guns.

Another safety item that I feel should be standard concerns reloading metallic cartridges. Wherever possible, I make it a RULE that none of the charges I use will fill up less than half of the case volume. This ensure that if I make the mistake of trying to double-charge a case, it will overflow. This became a rule for me when a friend of mine used a small charge of H380 in his 6MM Rem. and one of the cases had a head separation, at the range. Since this was new brass, with only one or two firings, I tested to see if he could put two full charges in the case, and sure enough, that is what had happened.
 

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with that tubular feed ..even if you look at an empty chamber an you have emptied the tube ...somehow one rnd can hide until you close the chamber one last time to put it up...this happened to me recently and ive been shooting tubular fed 22 s all my life...i just happened to recheck for some reason an plink ,out comes a live rnd when i opened the chamber..
dang spooky man...lesson ... never point a gun even if its half way a part or something ,,
at something thats best not shot... for me thats a never..
i know people that will dry fire at people but they better not do it around me..if i don t have a heart attack,,im gonna give them one..
a gun is always loaded,,an the safety is never anything but a measure to make a gun safer to carry .. it is never a sure thing.. even on my marlin 30 30 with a safety bar ,,i don t trust it pointed at nothin but sky, grnd or a target..
to err is human,,but in this case it can make you sorry, for the rest of your life..slim
ps sorry for getting preachy
 

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Any time you hear about an accidental discharge (I prefer the term negligent discharge) ask yourself which of these four gunhandling rules was violated.

Treat all guns as if they were loaded.
Never point the muzzle at anything you’re not willing to destroy.
Keep your finger off the trigger until the sights are on your target.
Be sure of your target and what is behind and around your target.

If you remove the bolts from your rifles and if you have more than one rifle of the same model, make sure the bolts are keyed to the rifles so that you don’t get them mixed up. Even with rifles of the same model and caliber, switching bolts can cause headspace, safety, or sear problems.

I was working on the target rifles for a Boy Scout camp and they had mixed up the bolts. Through considerable trial and error, headspace measuring and function checking, I got the bolts matched back up. I then engraved the serial numbers from the rifles onto the bolts. They still managed to mix and match bolts but it made it much easier to get them back where they belonged.

When using the trigger guard gun locks, make absolutely certain the firearm is unloaded and, when possible, uncocked. I had one customer who managed to set off a pistol with a trigger guard gun lock. And another who put a hole in his hard pistol case when the protrusion designed to come up through the trigger guard, pressed the trigger on a loaded gun.
 
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