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Discussion Starter #1
When Sam Colt wouldn't let the .45 LC be chambered for a Lever gun he did a big disservice to the shooting community of the day. The .45 LC would have out shined most if not all calibers of the day by far!! I've always been partial to the 45, but in a Lever gun there is know comparing the capabilties of this round- It flat out, out shine's the 44 Mag , 44-40 in the ballist department. If it would have been given a chance early on most of the other chamberings of the day would have faded under it's superior balistics. **** even the 30-30 would of had a run for it's money.:D
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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While I can agree with your point about the .45 Colt being a thumper in a rifle, I think that Sam Colt was dead and gone by then. Yeah, too bad the powers-that-be didn't work that deal. I suppose the small rim of the early .45 Colt cartridges may have been an obstacle but surely one that could have been overcome.
 

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Hello, I might be wrong but the reason I heard the .45 Colt was never chambered in a levergun long ago is because it originally was loaded with black powder and has no shoulder. The shoulder on the case aids in the extraction of cases when using black powder.
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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Erik,

While a lot of black-powder cases, especially the more well-known pistol cartridges (.25-20, .32-20, 38-40, .44-40 etc.) have a shoulder, there are many black powder rifle catridges that do not. .45-70 comes to mind, and it was of course in several lever guns from Marlin, Winchester, etc.

So it seems unlikely that was the reason. However it is certainly easier to feed a case with some taper or bottleneck in a repeater, no matter what it is loaded with. Interesting that the .45 Colt is about the oldest round that I can think of that is so straight it can be resized with carbide dies. Hadn't ever thought of that point till your post.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
From what I heard it was Sam Colts patent rights that kept it out of rifle market-Was it here or on another board? But If you've shot and reloaded the other offerings and gotten a 45 LC rifle to shoot lately comparing the ballistics of each there's no question that they pale in comparision! I would think no cowboy/frontiers men of the day would have felt under gunned for anything they would have come up against if they would of had a 45 LC rifle/ pistol combo-even loaded with black powder.:D Could that be why the 45-70-110's were so effective at that time? Sorry I can't help that I love everything 45 caliber, sometimes bigger is better!!! There's nothing better than tumping something with a 45!!!
 

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If you've ever seen factory .45 Long Colt cases of 100 or more years ago, you'd realize why it was never put in a lever-action rifle - just the barest example of a rim.
Back in the 1970s I reloaded some old Remington .45 LC cases that had this tiny rim. The shellholder pulled right off the rim with the slightest nudge.
I can't imagine the extractor of the Winchester 73 or 92 trying to grasp that little bit of rim and trying to pull it out, especially in chambers pitted by corrosive primers, black powder and a thorough lack of cleaning.
I'm sure Winchester looked at the feasibility of chambering to the .45 Long Colt but decided against it. They had everything to lose and nothing to gain by not chambering their rifles for the .45, but they also had to think of their reputation for reliability.
The average owner of the Winchester would have blamed the rifle, not the cases, for any malfunctions. Oliver Winchester was too smart of a businessman to risk his company's reputation on that.
Frankly, I can't understand why the .38-40 was ever adopted. The difference between it and the .44-40 are nominal -- a .40-caliber bullet vs. a .430 bullet. Only 3 calibers of difference hardly seems worth the effort.
The more I use my reproduction 1873 Winchester in .44-40, the more I realize that the old-timers were well-served with this rifle. It's accurate and that soft lead slug really flattens on impact. It's not a good choice for anything larger than deer or antelope. It's also a good defense rifle, even in these days.
My Uberti holds 13 rounds in the tubular magazine and I can crank them out quickly and accurately, accurately enough to hit a man out to 35 yards without pausing to align sights.
Here again, that 200-grain flatnosed slug at 1,200 fps is not to be sneezed at. It won't penetrate Kevlar, but I doubt a man could remain standing after taking a center-hit in the vest with one of those big bullets.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Gatofeo
Well like they say -"you learn something new every day"!:D
I didn't know that the orignal 45 LC rim was so slight? Thank- fully that has been fixed. I haven't had any extraction problems with the New 45 cases in my Win 94. :D I agree with you on the usefulness of these Old Lever guns as defense arms. It would be hard to beat for the fire power you can unleash. I to pity the BG that thinks little of my .45 LC, I would have no problems putting 11 rounds in his COM at 50 yds or better with my 250 gr loads at 1300 fps. And I can get all 11 of them on there way quite fast!;)
 
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