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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I have a rifle, marked as below. I have done all sorts of research, mainly on the www. I have found that:

It was probably manufactured between 1961 and '71.
The Mann-Scho. designation is mostly related to the stock design?
It has a short forearm,and double trigger. It is nicely balanced, and aside from a few wear marks, it's in good condition. It has one rust spot under the barrel, and one under the bolt handle. Any ideas what to do about those? Brushes, cleaners? I don't mind grayness, but really don't want brown rust!

What I am looking for, is any knowledge anyone may have concerning what action normally came in these rifles, and is this a '06 I can use heavy handloads in without hurting it?


Made in Austria
Original Mannilicher
Schoenauer
MOD MCA
Kal 30-06
Stoger Arms Corp

serial? 55xxx


Any help will be greatly appreciated
 

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Hi, Mike:
Is the attached picture what you've got?

The Mannlicher action is pretty well unique. A Mannlicher style stock goes right to the muzzle like a Kentucky rifle, so your rifle doesn't have one. It was available, with 18 1/2" or 20" barrels for the MCA rifles.

Scope mounts are different, and likely special order. Does it have a flat "butterknife" bolt handle or a regular knob type handle?

I would think it can use any standard .30-06 load, as the Northern European proof houses are pretty tough.

Try rubbing out the rust with fine steel wool, 0000 prefered with a little oil. If it's not too deep you won't hurt the bluing.

Bye
Jack
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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While we're on the subject, I wish someone would tell me how to pronounce the name of the company. Never have seen this explained..... can guess on the "Mannlicher" but the second word has me completely stumped.
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
I can't believe it! That is EXACTLY the rifle!!! What publication is that? You are the FIRST person in a year and a half that has offered any definative information on this rifle! Thank you so much!!!

It has the stock pictured, and the "butterknife" type bolt handle, again, like the picture.

I gather that the model is a '61 MCA model, but that does not mean it was manufactured that year, right? You have no idea how happy seeing this makes me. I got the rifle when my great uncle died in 1995, and it came with a scope attached that I had to take off (carefully) so that I could read all the information concerning the manufacture. All that I printed above, except the ser#, is what was hidden under the bedding of the front scope ring mount. And from this page you posted, it may have come drilled and tapped from the factory? If you tell me the name of the publication, or book/manual you got that info from, I would be appreciative.

MikeG - the correct pronounciation is SHOW-en-our probably rolling the "r".

Jack - thank you again!!!
 

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I think one of members, Charlie Z, has one or two of these rifles, and really enjoys them. I hate to speak for anyone else, but am betting that he has a ton of info on them.
 

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Hi, Mike:
This is page 100, showing the carbine model with the traditional Mannlicher full length stock. The 6.5 mm chambering is the 6.5x54 mm M-S, not the 6.5x55 Swede.

Bye
Jack
 

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Hi, Mike:
Page 102 covers the scope mount. Is that what your Uncle's gun has? That was a pretty expensive rifle. A Remington 700 BDL and a Winchester 70 were under $160 then.

There's another 3 pages of parts diagrams that I'll post if you want them. You should get Frank de Hass's Bolt Action Rifles for the details of the action. Every bolt action freak needs it anyhow.

Back when I was a knee-high, Mom would turn me loose in the old Army & Navy store in Regina. I'd head for the basement and check out the guns. There was the usual truck load of Lee-Enfields, but two others I remember were funny little rifles with forward mounted bolt handles and other ones with an odd side mounted magazine. Probably $20 each.

Bye
Jack
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Jack,
I can't thank you enough. When I get to work tomorrow, I will download and run these pics through a "cleaner". And I will take your advise and look for the Frank DeHass book and the Shooter's Bible from '69. This is proving to be too interesting, and even though I am not a bolt action freak, I am a consistent point of impact freak, so, while I will continue on my trek for the perfect .45, I will look at this rifle in a new light, and enjoy it throughly.

The model I have is the short forestock rifle, with a leather hunting sling, double set, and the scope rings and a Tasco scope. The rings and scope I have to find the box I put them in when I moved, but I did keep all the parts together.

Thank you again! I am now on the way to Charlie Z's thread.
 

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Mike,

You'll enjoy the MS. Obviously, you will not have the pleasure (it really was, with the help of this forum) of making it shoot well that I did with the 6.5. 30-06 makes life very easy, however, and you'll enjoy the absolute quality of constuction and its unusual design.

I would recommend Waters' Pet Loads bible all over again. He likes both the early and late MS and they feature in several cartridge chapters.

The trickiest bit is the sighting -- especially those ring mounts. I had a Lyman 36 built that is beautiful and well suited to the 6.5MS, but I'd probably go with the scope in '06.

Additionally, Hawk Bullets solved the 6.5MS overbore bullet issue.

- Charlie
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Charlie Z - I am glad you weighed in, I am enjoying the direction I am given by the participants of this thread. I have found out more about my particular rifle, and MS in general, in the last three days, than I have in the preceeding 18 months.

As for sights, I like the idea of a peep sight, I don't know that I am going to be regularly shooting past 150 yds. that is assuming of course that I can still see clearly to that distance! But who knows? Sooner or later, I may have to see what the rifle is capable of at 500 yds or so, and I am sure my eyes are not what they were 12 plus years ago!

You say I will not have the issue of figuring out the bore and getting the rifle to shoot well - I read your other thread - is this because when the '06 was produced, the manufacturer used 30-06 Springfield specs. to build the chamber (instead of their own interpretation)? Or was the 6.5 just such a bastard size that they could not stay consistent?

I am going to follow the advice of all of the above, and go after those publications mentioned. I intend to have alot of fun with this rifle, and it makes me happy to have inherited such fine craftmanship.

Thank you all so much.
 

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Hi, Mike:
The 1969 Shooter's Bible might be hard to find, so I'll post the other four M-S pages. de Hass and Waters are still in print. Page 103 is the Deluxe Carbine, mostly eye candy. The rest are parts diagrams.

Bye
Jack
 

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Hi, Mike:
Page 540 is the first parts page. These are better than the parts diagram in de Hass, although I had to shrink them more than I'd like. The note at the bottom is wrong; the trigger page follows, after the next parts page.

Bye
Jack
 

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Hi, Mike:
This set trigger illustration is a bit different than the one in de Hass. He discusses the 1903 Greek military rifle in his book and it looks like there are some minor differences between the 1903 and your rifle. I've pretty well exhausted my references on Mannlicher-Schoenauers, but Charlie Z and perhaps Mr. Gates can tell you more.

It's been a freezing rain day and a good day to stay home and play with my Lexmark X75 printer-fax-copier. It's not perfect, but it's an amazing unit for the price.

Bye
Jack
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Jack,
You are too kind! This is great! I copied all the pics you posted, and can even read them once stretched and printed. Now I MIGHT attempt to take apart the bolt assy and clean and inspect in preperation to firing. Have had this rifle for ten years or so, and never new what a quality tool I had. If this rifle is as accurate as touted, and my marksmanship skills have not completly deteriorated, I should have no problem with 200 - 300 yd. shots with iron sights (some sort of peep would be helpful though!). And scoped, the horizon ought to be the limit! (yea, I'm a little pumped about it, I used to be a great shooter!)

Thank you again, and I will certainly report my ecstasy (I hope) after firing it, after the ground here drys up!
 

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Mike,

I'd stick with the scope (low power and small) and open irons (what you have).

The Lyman 36 sits low over the bolt so that as you draw the bolt back, the peep swings to the side pushed back by the bolt. You may also need to relieve some wood under the bolt release to fit the sight, which is undesireable. The 36s are now hens teeth and I had one made in a lot with some other M-S owners on the M-S forum site.

Also, the M-S version of the Lyman 36 replaces the bolt release rocker on the left side of the receiver as it's mount (so it's also your bolt release). Adequate and novel, but not the greatest design. The advantage of the sight (lost on modern peeps) is that it works low with the factory front sight, on plane with the rear leaves. Neat.

I have seen photos of cocking-piece peeps, also, but not many and probably one-offs.

The best M-S peep is the factory swing-up that folded into the upper tang when working the bolt. It was inletted and fitted at manufacture and would be prohibitive to add.

On rounds, the 6.5 cartridge was all funny for the reasons Mr. Gates mentioned in his post. The case needs to be fireformed and the barrel needs to be slugged as there were several bore variations (though most are .266). The 30-06, however is a much more internationally standardized cartridge.

On accuracy, these were originally 200yd woods guns (your's to 300). Accuracy was probably as good or better than anything available at the time, but I doubt it is better than what today's rifles can do. Mannlichers are merely well crafted hunting rifles that are well suited to your Penn woods. Good luck with it and let us know how well it shoots!
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Charlie,
You will have to forgive my earlier exuberance - I am just charged after ten years wondering what this rifle is. After thinking about the craftmanship, and re-evaluating the sights, I figured (maybe incorrectly) that what I have is 100 yd. zero and a 300 yd. zero. Leading from this, I also figure that with the slight difference in the rear leaves, that 500 yds. is not un-attainable by any means. Not that I would shoot at something live at that distance, just the personal satisfaction that I can still do it.

Thank you, and I do believe I will follow your advice on the sights. As soon as I un-pack my boxes in storage, I will put the scope rings back on and go in search for a scope that "fits" both my needs and the aesthetics I desire.

Thank you again.

Edited - With reference to the leaf sights, I now believe it is 200 and 300 yard sights.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Jack,
I have to say, I am glad you had a grey day that was a good day to play with your scanner. I have now stretched, clarified and printed the pages you posted for me.

This afternoon I checked my e-mail,and there was a message from a gentleman in Germany with step by step instructions on bolt assembly takedown. What a nice surprise! Now, between your pictures and his instructions, I can tackle the job of getting to know the rifle. This ought to be good for a couple of hours Saturday morning, before the rest of the house wakes up.

Thank you again, and I also thank Axel Eichendorff for his instructions.
 
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