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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I received a phone call from my 12 yr old step son's school recently stating that I had to come to the school to discuss some disturbing and inappropriate material they found in his notebook. I was expecting some sort of girly pics or possibly some cuss words but when I arrived they informed me that they had found pictures of army tanks, machine guns, jet fighters, and soldiers in his notebook. I was absolutely astounded. They had my son sitting in a waiting room when I got there and was not allowed to go back to class until I personally came to the school and signed for the notebook and was able to promise them that he would have a new notebook and that he would not do it again. I will not go into detail about the rant that I went into inside the vice principals office but I can tell you I was extremely upset. I did not disrespect the vp in front of my son but made him leave the office for that. What has this world come too?
 

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Piney Woods Moderator
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Sometimes a dad has to do what a dad has to do. I always told my son to respect his teachers and I would take care of any correction. My wife is a supervisor in the local school system and she is frequently amazed at the stupidity of decisions made by certain administrators. Just because someone is supposed to be educated doesn't mean that they are not ignorant.
 

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The Troll Whisperer (Moderator)
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My grandson would have been kicked out of kindergarten if that's the case - he loved to draw pics of such things. All of us (parents, grandparents, relatives) thought he had a great imagination and artistic talent.

Guess "No Tolerance" mean just that. Real shame.
 

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...they informed me that they had found pictures of army tanks, machine guns, jet fighters, and soldiers in his notebook. I was absolutely astounded...
If they allowed that sort of thing in the school, they'd probably have to start teaching history again, too.
 

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I have long said -- and ranted, raved, and won my argument several times when my kids were in school -- that "zero tolerance" policies are nothing but a means for administrators to avoid any and all reasoning and personal responsibility. And here's a tip for you -- the "nuclear option" in such situations is always the threat of a lawsuit, at least in the school districts I've gone head-to-head with. They will turn themselves inside-out to avoid court, because they know darned good and well they'll look like what they mostly are -- lazy idiots, leaches on the public purse, not qualified to "administer" a trash pickup much less a school system.

I will make this flat assertion -- no degree in education, even a PhD, makes anyone even remotely qualified to run a school -- maybe ESPECIALLY a PhD.
 

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Public School is bad!

If they allowed that sort of thing in the school, they'd probably have to start teaching history again, too.
Scary though huh! They might learn about the bill of rights! I taught my childern to respect the elders too. Provided they are not being endangered by them, but I all so taught them to be assertive and defend their rights. You can to both. Defiance to school authority is not nessarily disrespectful! Respect is taught by example and being respectful, not demanding it while doing the opposite!

Tell them your wife is going to home school the kids , they like that too. Out here you can home your kids and send them to school just for electives and P.E. It is a great option. If you make that threat you might have to back it up though. Schools are crazy now! My 2 year old won't be going to public shool for anything but shop! LOL
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I have long said -- and ranted, raved, and won my argument several times when my kids were in school -- that "zero tolerance" policies are nothing but a means for administrators to avoid any and all reasoning and personal responsibility. And here's a tip for you -- the "nuclear option" in such situations is always the threat of a lawsuit, at least in the school districts I've gone head-to-head with. They will turn themselves inside-out to avoid court, because they know darned good and well they'll look like what they mostly are -- lazy idiots, leaches on the public purse, not qualified to "administer" a trash pickup much less a school system.

I will make this flat assertion -- no degree in education, even a PhD, makes anyone even remotely qualified to run a school -- maybe ESPECIALLY a PhD.
I did throw out the "lawsuit" threat and it seemed to make him a bit nervous but the damage had been done. The boy was embarassed and could not understand what he had done wrong. I had to explain to him that although we as a family saw nothing wrong with his graphics, the school had certain rules that he needed to follow.
 

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It's always upsetting to have to restrict expression for the sake of education. Put those two concepts together and you get FORCE FEEDING. You did the right thing with your explanation to the child.
 

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I like that, you should ask to see a history book look up wwII and point out that your son was just interested in furthering his study of the subject since the school is doing such a great job of teaching it. (sarcasm intended.) I might have handled the VP differently, left the door to the office open and read him the battle hymn of the republic (so to speak) at full volume so the whole office could hear me chew him out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I like that, you should ask to see a history book look up wwII and point out that your son was just interested in furthering his study of the subject since the school is doing such a great job of teaching it. (sarcasm intended.) I might have handled the VP differently, left the door to the office open and read him the battle hymn of the republic (so to speak) at full volume so the whole office could hear me chew him out.
I did read him the riot act, with the door open. I just made sure the child was not within earshot of the discussion.
 

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This smacks of an incident that happened to me at college (high school = college, college = university) My english teacher gave us the assignment of 'planning the perfect murder'. Much and complicated were the proposals turned in, mine consisted of "Steal a large car and run down a jogger at random." Next thing I'm kept after class to be told my teacher was 'disturbed' at my effort, was referred to the vice principle who was also 'disturbed', and although my parents would not be brought into the picture this time, they would be keeping an eye on me. Huh?? Just what exactly did they want from me, anyhow? Not that it would seem......
 

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they know darned good and well they'll look like what they mostly are -- lazy idiots, leaches on the public purse, not qualified to "administer" a trash pickup much less a school system.
As a third year college student persuing a degree in education I take offense at your statement and would also know what evidence you have to back up such a claim? Or are you just someone who likes to run his mouth about things he doesnt understand?
 

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I will make this flat assertion -- no degree in education, even a PhD, makes anyone even remotely qualified to run a school -- maybe ESPECIALLY a PhD.
So who would be qualified to run the school? You?
 

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As a third year college student persuing a degree in education I take offense at your statement and would also know what evidence you have to back up such a claim? Or are you just someone who likes to run his mouth about things he doesnt understand?
It's a result of 3 terms on a school board and a lifetime in business and personnel management. School administration is first and foremost a management and leadership position. The majority of administrators know every theory of education and not one thing about managing and leading an organization of any type. Many of them failed in the classroom and got "kicked upstairs". The last time our district was searching for a superintendent, I recruited a retired army lieutenant general with a sterling record of leadership, by far the most well-rounded, educated and outstanding person ever interviewed in our district. The board ended up hiring what they were used to -- a know-nothing ED (who insists on being addressed as "Doctor", although the degree does not entitle him to it) who toadies to everyone -- board, parents, teachers, students -- and leads no one except district employees deserting the office early on Fridays. In other words, pretty much what we've always had.

You may be a fine student, and may make a great techer or even administrator. But the majority of education degreed folks I see these days are very poorly educated in anything beyond dubious teaching theories and techniques, so poorly educated that I would favor eliminating the major. There is something very wrong in a system in which Henry Kissinger could get a chair at any major university, but wouldn't be qualified to teach middle school social studies because he doesn't have a meaningless piece of paper. Every emphasis, on every level, is misplaced. If you're going in to the system, for God's sake try to change it. Otherwise, please pick something else -- you'll only perpetuate the problems.
 

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pisgah,

Im sorry for the misunderstanding. It sounds like you have had experience, I made the mistake of rushing to conclusions and thinking you were one of the many that bash the teaching profession but have no constuctive criticism to "fix" what they see as wrong.

I would have to agree that there are some (maybe even many) that are unfit to teach/administrate. I think it is something that needs to be fixed within the ranks and especially starting at the college level with the views that some professors will try to indoctrinate their teaching pupils with.

Once again Im sorry to have jumped on you like that. Just hated to see my chosen profession bashed, as Im sure any other man would.

JTH
 

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pisgah,

.....

Once again Im sorry to have jumped on you like that. Just hated to see my chosen profession bashed, as Im sure any other man would.

JTH
JTH,

Don't be sorry - Make a difference.
Wise and fair school teachers/adms are badly need these days!
 

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I had no intention of "bashing the profession". Except for parenting, it is the most important job in our society -- which is why I am so disturbed at the progressive deterioration of the public education system witnessed over the past 40+ years. There are many, many wonderful people in the system -- unfortunately, most I know will tell you they are frustrated almost to the point of insanity at the way the system constantly prevents them from doing their jobs. I do not blame teachers/administrators alone -- there's plenty of blame to go around.

I wish you only the best in your career and hope you are one of the good guys. But I'm telling you, if public education is where you're headed it will not be long before you encounter the hard realities -- you are going to be allowed to do very little teaching, and the better you are at it the closer the scrutiny and pressure to conform you will receive. By standing out you will make many others look bad, and in any bureaucracy that is a sin. Good people suffer, above all the children.
 

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The Troll Whisperer (Moderator)
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We've drifted away from the board's true intent - discussing firearms and related equipment.

Thanks for everyone's input - let's get on with board interests.

Thread closed.
 
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