Shooters Forum banner
1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Anyone here have any field experience with the Leupold or Burris Scout Scopes? I've been debating on these, or one of the higher grade red dot units for installing on my Levergun. Suggestions? Any help would be appreciated.


Bones
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
153 Posts
Scout scopes

Levergun,
I cannot speak about the Leupold or Burris Scout scopes, specifically, as I have used neither. However, I have used both Nikon and Swift handgun scopes - mounted as Scout scopes (ahead of the receiver). The only difference between a "Scout scope" and a handgun scope, really, is that the handgun scope will normally have a parallax setting for 50 yds.... whereas the Scout scope will usually be set for 100 yds (as a "normal" rifle scope would be). As for the relative effectiveness and ease of use of this set-up... I must tell you that I love it ! For one thing, I have never been a fan of high-magnification, as it just seems to magnify "the shakes" for me - spoiling my shooting. A scout scope, at 2 - 3X, does NOT have this effect. It's remarkable, but this set-up gives a great sense of stability, which helps A LOT, especially for off-hand shooting. This type of scope allows very quick target aquisition, too. The normal method of shooting, with this arrangement, is with both eyes open. That way, your natural binocular vision will superimpose the crosshair on the target. In order for this to be comfortable, the vision in BOTH of your eyes must be close to the same (otherwise, you will have parallax problems). I happen to be LEFT-eye dominant, which is normally a problem, when shooting right-handed. But, I have found that the scout scope set-up cancels that issue very nicely. With both eyes open, as well, you have about 45 degrees of clear vision - around the area of the scope image - which is a better field-of-view than ANY conventional scope. Note that the "both eyes open" technique only works if the scope has about 3X magnification, maximum. If more than that, then again, parallax issues (with your eyes) vs. the scope, will make this system difficult or impossible to use. Obviously, a 3X maximum scope will not allow for really precise long range shooting. I have found that, with a 2X pistol scope on my rifle, I can keep all shots within a 6" dia. circle, out to about 150 yds (which is as far as I shoot anymore). Beyond that distance, 2X is not enough magnification to be precise. Bear in mind, though, that you CAN use a scout scope set-up in the traditional fashion (one eye closed). It works just as well that way. You actually will have a very good field of view, even with one eye closed, because the scope is so far from your eye - you can see around it with your peripheral vision, while concentrating on the target. If you close one eye, it is also possible to use more than 3X. So, a variable scope, set to 2-3X for both-eye shooting.... and higher than that for long-range, one-eye shooting... will work just fine. I almost forgot to mention that, using a pistol scope (50 yd. parallax) is not a problem, as your binocular vision, I have found, will largely compensate for the parallax - at least, that is MY experience.
The ONLY significant drawbacks (of the Scout scope set-up) that I have found are that 1) because the scope is mounted out, away from your eye, glare can be a problem, depending on the angle of the sun. This does NOT come up if shooting in heavy woods (with indirect sunlight). 2) Having only 2X or 3X, as I stated above, does not allow for long-range precision, nor is it great for picking out a target (such as a deer) - THROUGH heavy brush. This can be remedied by using a variable scope.....turning the magnification UP.... and using only one eye. (As a practical matter, I don't really have a problem with this issue - so I get by just fine on 2X).
In conclusion, I would say that you should try the Scout scope "set-up" - you may like it as much as I do. It definitely IS an "aquired taste" (some people just hate it).... but, as I always say to those that think badly of the idea.... don't knock it till you've tried it - you might be pleasantly surprised.
Sorry I couldn't speak specifically about the Leupold or Burris scopes, but I hope that this info will be of help to you. Best of Luck.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
722 Posts
Hiya Bones

I am also looking to scope my Marlin, in this case an 1894SS in 44 Magnum. Somewhat contrary to what was posted earlier, the difference in a Scout Scope is the amount of eye relief. EER (extended eye relief) scopes are considered handgun scopes, true scouts are IER (intermediate eye relief) and a slightly different animal. I have a Simmons 4X pistol scope in a Scout Mount on my Marlin 35 Rem, and to use it I have to park at the south end of the northbound rifle, not a natural position. I can shoot groups with it, but I want a scope that won't force me to be so far from the eyepiece. An eye relief of 11-15 inches is about perfect, most pistol scopes have the eye relief set at 18-20 inches. To confound my problem, my vision has deteriorated to the point that I need more magnification than 3 or 4 power, I'd like 7 or 8. There is a Burris (I think) Variable that runs 2.5 to 8 power, but perfection doesn't come cheap, and I haven't found anyone that offers it yet. If I could, I'd buy two, and redo the 35 Remington, then do a LOT of shooting. It's kind of hard to test handloads at 100 yards when you can barely see the target! :( Hope this helps.

Papajohn
 

·
The Troll Whisperer (Moderator)
Joined
·
24,034 Posts
Have a Burris 2X7 pistol scope that worked great on a handgun, then was put on a Marlin 1895LTD1 in a Ashley Scout Mount - performed like a champ in that role. Had about 9" of eye relief and gave full field of view at all power settings.

It's now parked on a Russian 91/38 carbine in a B Square mount attached to the rear sight frame. Again, performs flawlessly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,984 Posts
I've had a Leupole 2.5x scout scope on my Ruger 77 .458 ever since the first year they came out with the scout scope. I've had no trouble with it what so ever. Most EER pistol scopes will be too close if mounted in the scout position and will not give you a full FOV. The scout works great and I really like it on the .458.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
153 Posts
papajohn,
Sorry to differ with you, but eye relief is NOT the determining factor as to whether the scopes in question are "Scout scopes" - PARALLAX SETTING is, just as I said before. EER scopes come in all varieties and IER scopes are not all set up the same, either. Not all handgun scopes have eye relief of 18-20".... and IER scopes vary in this, also. I am using a HANDGUN scope on my Scout rifle right now, that has an optimal eye relief of 13", which works perfectly. Perhaps this is considered an IER scope when compared to one with ER of 18-20" (I can see how it would be), but it is designed as a handgun scope, with parallax set for 50 yds. THAT is the determining issue - "Scout scopes" have parrallax set for normal riflescope distances (usually 100 yds), because they are intended for use on rifles.
The Scout rifle set-up was never designed for benchrest shooting, let alone load development. A forward-mounted scope will not work well with magnification much above 4X. I can understand that you are having problems using a handgun scope (with such long eye relief) mounted as a Scout scope - if it is mounted too close (as it evidently is). What you need, first of all, is either a scope with proper eye relief for your use (whatever one chooses to call it), or a scope mount that will position the scope further forward (impractical). In fact, unless you use a scope with at least a 40 mm objective, at 8X, you will lose so much Exit Pupil that, with the scope mounted forward, you will have a tough time seeing anything. If you truly need 8X, a conventionally mounted scope will work MUCH better.
My eyes are not what they once were, either, but I find that 2X is quite OK, out to about 150 yds - but NOT for benchrest- type shooting. I am able to keep all of my shots within a 6" circle (in fact, about half the area of a 6" circle). That kind of precision is all the Scout set-up was designed to give. Simply mounting a high-magnification scope on your rifle, in the forward position, isn't going to work very well, if at all.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
72 Posts
Levergun Bones

I'm going through what you questioned about right now.I have been using a red dot on my M444 for quite some time,for hunting purposes it was just fine.I wanted to mount a scope on it for target shooting as the 4MOA of the dot makes 100yrd paper shots iffy.What I mean is without magnification and cross hairs I could be never certain of my group size.I first used a Weaver 2.5X 20mm,I like the low small look on levers.This worked fine .I even took it afield this year.The only thing I didn't like was the scope hanging over the hammer.I know I could use higher rings,but as I said I want small and low.I have since bought a Burris FF 2X5 20MM.The variable(Burris) eye reliefe was not as good as the Weaver.That was a step back for what I wanted.I also didn't want it wacking me in the forehead everytime I let loose a hot one.I now have a Leupold 2X (20mm)IER going on it.I ran into a little snag as the rings I had wouldn't let me mount it the way I want it.My set up would be a half scout setup if you know what I mean.I'm going to mount it so the eyepiece is just over the end of the reciever.I just bought some Weaver extention rings.This will allow me to mount it just that way.I will have to cut another grove in the weaver base but that should be no problem.I plan on finishing this today.With any sucess I'll try to post some pictures of the setup.When I placed the scope on the mount it seems perfect sort of like the red dot setup I had only with cross hairs.I use two eyes open and it was bright and clear.Check back I may have the pictures later today.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
117 Posts
I have shot my 1895M for a couple of years now with the XSsights ghost ring set on it. Now just today I got the Scout mount delivered. I really want to go with the leupold or burris. Anyone know a good place / price to get either of these. I am not sure which one yet but am tending toward the Leuplod because that is want I am used to.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
I have a Styer Scout in .308 with the factory scope. I love it. Its my up close and nasty gun. Once you get used to shooting with both eyes open its extremely fast. It wouldnt be a bad defense gun either.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
886 Posts
I used a scout scope set up on a Marlin 444 and on a 1894 44mg. I was using a leverscout mount from XS and a Burris Scout Scope. I really like this set up and would reccomend it to anyone that shoots close to moderate distances (0-150yds). The burris scope performed great, I really don't see where there is much difference between the burris and Leupold scout scopes. The only real advantage in buying the Leupold IMO is that you can send it to Permir Rectiles and they will install any type rectile you want.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
722 Posts
ICS
I'm in the same boat as you, want to buy the scope and can't seem to find a good source! I've had the bloody scope mount since last summer, have the cash for the scope, and can't seem to get a lead on where to order it. Let me know if you can find a deal on one! I'll keep looking as well.

PJ the Presbyopic Jugblaster
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
886 Posts
papajohn428 said:
ICS
I'm in the same boat as you, want to buy the scope and can't seem to find a good source! I've had the bloody scope mount since last summer, have the cash for the scope, and can't seem to get a lead on where to order it. Let me know if you can find a deal on one! I'll keep looking as well.

PJ the Presbyopic Jugblaster

I got mine off of ebay, you might try this route, I got the scope and rings for a really good deal. Just do a google search on the model scope you want and you'll find plenty of places selling it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
886 Posts
ironhead7544 said:
Sorry it,s Natchez shooters supply. Just looked it up on the net. They list both scout scopes.

For what its worth, my scout scope was a Burris not a Leupold and it performed wonderfully. Couldn't of asked for anything more from it. The only reason I might choose a Leupold over the Burris is the Ability to send it in to Permire Reticles and have them install Leupold's Heavy Duplex reticle on it. The Burris was cheaper on ebay even with the set of QD rings and flip open caps than a new Leupold so I gave it a try and was wonderfully impressed.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
117 Posts
I ended up getting and Leupold at the locan gun shop it was just easyer. I have an idea as far as the question earlyer about getting a scout scope or the red dot. I say get both put the on the leupold quick realse rings and then you can inter change them!!!
I am realy happy with the set up
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,656 Posts
mattpair said:
For what its worth, my scout scope was a Burris not a Leupold and it performed wonderfully. Couldn't of asked for anything more from it. The only reason I might choose a Leupold over the Burris is the Ability to send it in to Permire Reticles and have them install Leupold's Heavy Duplex reticle on it. The Burris was cheaper on ebay even with the set of QD rings and flip open caps than a new Leupold so I gave it a try and was wonderfully impressed.
Check the Burris website about them installing new reticles in their scopes. It is very inexpensive. I have a 1 3/4 -5 x20 that I am having them change from crosshair and dot to heavy duplex.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
have any of you mounted a scout or pistol scope on an old Winchester 94 top eject? I have a Leupold 2X EER which seems to fit well in terms of eye relief though the scout mounting is definitely on the min end of the eye relief range. I would like to find a mount that fixes to the barrel band and the rear sight dove tail to mimimize the amount of alteration to the original gun. any ideas? Thanks...Y
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Top