[xphunter]

How often do you consider 547 yards as the starting distance with a specialty handgun?
That is where Don Bowers will be starting you at if you can make it to the Bower Long Range Handgun Clinic, July 7-10 in Alliance, NE.
If you attend the clinic you won't see long range shooting in the same way you did before the clinic (unless this is old hat for you--which it may be for some reading this post)
I am beginning to get hard commitments from shooters for this years clinic.
We are also going to be doing some things different than last year that will enable you to be better in field shooting for big game or varmints like coyotes.

Cost is $200. There is a $75 deposit (Pay the rest of balance - $125 @ the seminar, non-refundable unless Don okays it) to secure your spot in the seminar. You are responsible for paying for your own food and lodging. Don will be supplying guns, ammo and rest systems for you to use or you can shoot your own stuff.
Sixteen participants is the maximum number.
This is on a first come first serve basis.

Send deposit and make your check or money order to:
Ernie Bishop
5 Eastwood Drive
Hutchinson, Kansas 67502.
Email is [email protected]
My home phone # is 620-662-3669.
My office (Eastwood Church of Christ) phone # is 620-662-3923 Monday through Thursday.
If you have any questions feel free to e-mail or call me. Please contact me if there is a possibility of you coming to the clinic this year. We need to make sure we have enough ammo loaded for everyone.

Ernie Bishop (AKA--xphunter)

 

[Zeppelin!]

This sure looks like Spam to me. I am an idiot and shoot at targets out at 200 yards , iron sights, unsupported and do pretty well but 500 yard distance is idiotic unless you are shooting supported with a scope. If you are going to do that why not just use a rifle?

 

[MikeG]

Zep, I'm sorry to say, that sure seems like a hostile attitude on your part. Just because you don't find it interesting or challenging, doesn't mean every other shooter feels that way.

Personally... I haven't shot at anything at 500 yards with a handgun, but open sights and big rocks at 200-300 yards is a lot of fun - my opinion.

 

[Zeppelin!]

Sorry, It just seems like a spam post to me...

 

[kciH]

Zeppy, zeppy,
Calm down. It does seem a little spammy to me also. BUT, being that I have a XP-100 in .284 Winchester with a scope that will shoot 200yd groups you can cover with a quarter, I may look into it. It's in my Backward home state after all!

XP,
What is covered in this seminar? I'm somewhat interested, it's a long drive for me.

Mike G,
How about a once-in-a-lifetime, lucky as you can be, shot at a crow with a Dan Wesson .357 at about 250 yds? My buddy was slackjawed. I'm like "watch this". I don't know who was more suprised, him or me.

 

[Coldfingers]

Seems I heard about this long range shoot a year ago or so also.

Sounds like alot of fun if you like long barreled, bolt action, scoped "gopher getters"

I don't know if I would quite call the post spam or not.

Now xp...if your guy can teach me to do that with my .45Colt, I may catch an early bird south ;*)

Scotty

 

[DOK]

Their last outing was covered by a thorough article in "Accurate Rifle", a top notch magazine that is known for it's authenticity. The handguns covered in said article were of the T/C Contender style and with the calibers and loads used, performed right up there with rifles.

However, I appreciate the skepticism and remember those experts that told Elmer that it couldn’t be done.

Dan

 

[William Iorg]

Zep, your right in pointing out that this post is on the edge of Spam. In this instance I believe this is more of a service than hindrance. The "sport" of handgun bench rest shooting has been growing quietly for a number of years. Writers such as Ross Seyfried have written articles trying to catch peoples attention and alert them to some of the new technology and incredible results that are being obtained by a very few dedicated accuracy nuts. Remember that today's shooting world would look very different without relatively unknown men like Harvey Donaldson and others who worked behind the scenes to promote precision shooting. Among handgunners Don Bowers is known for his generosity and willingness to share information with everyone who is interested in accurate handguns. The hope is that what is being learned by these dedicated experimenters will eventually find its way into production handguns. This is exactly what happened with S&W and a pair silhouette shooters out in California. The result was a great improvement in firearms, and not just S&W.
Ross Seyfried has been calling for a national handgun benchrest organization with rules, sanctioned matches and a newsletter to help share information. He has written several articles on accurate handguns, perhaps the most interesting was in the August 1994 issue of Guns & Ammo: "In Search of the Minute Of Angle Revolver". Seyfried started this article out: "Trust me, I was right out there with you as a disbeliever."
Interesting things are happening out there…

 

[John Kort]

YES IT CAN AND HAS BEEN DONE! I have personally witnessed
shooters using XP100's chambered in a variety of calibers shooting at the NRA 500 Meter Ram target quite successfully.
One fellow, in particular , that I recall hit and downed 6 out of 10 rams shooting from a creedmore position.

I, myself, shooting from a benchrest with a Ruger .45 Colt revolver, have fired numerous shoots at that distance in the memory of Elmer Keith. Once you know where to hold the sights, you would be surprised how close those big slugs impact to your aiming point. Of course it takes several shots to figure that out!

John

 

[Zeppelin!]

Sorry to all if I jumped the gun ((now there is a pun)) I do a lot of shooting and benchrest shooting with a handgun and a scope at 500+ yards just seems to me a little overboard. I would never hunt that way (you run a big risk of injury to the animal and not killing it) and if you were defending yourself the court would look down on a person who made a shot at that kind of distance so I guess I am not sure what the point is. I can hit a large target with iron sights and my BFR at 350 yards but I do it just to hear the metal plate ting and I can only hit it maybe 2 out of 5 shots. One compensates when one sees the dirt fly when you miss. If you cant hit a long range target 90%+ of the time then, errr, why do it?

xphunter, I didnt mean to indicate you are a spammer, more I just get a little leary when people start advertising something that seems a bit odd and this really seems odd to me even if its legit. I have seen other gun groups turn into nothing but a long running commercial so perhaps I am being a little to defensive.

 

[MikeG]

Zep, don't get me wrong, the moderators appreciate you bringing this to our attention (via the "Report this post" mechanism) so we can check it out, but we'd just ask that you let us figure out what to do with it, before making any negative posts.

If something inappropriate shows up on the forum, it will be deleted, as quickly as we can, and the offending member will be told why.

We would rather quietly delete anything that doesn't belong here, and move on, rather than start a big flame war as I'm sure you have seen on other forums (and we've occasionally had ourselves, but not too often).

Now.... it could certainly be argued that this post belongs in the "Trading Post" section of the forum. After all, it's certainly advertising, in addition to some interesting information re: long range handgun shooting.

So... in closing, let me encourage anyone to report posts that they think are inappropriate, but please don't take it upon yourselves to respond negatively, no matter what the issue.

On a personal note, I have only shot Contenders a few times, and never an XP-100, but if the event was a little closer to home, I'd give it a go. The longest distance I've shot targets is at 500 yards. At that range, gallon milk jugs are easy with a .50 BMG single-shot, a little more challenging with a .257 Roberts.

 

[IDShooter]

I can't imagine why anyone in the shooting fraternity would ask "why" about a shooting sport? Why shoot 1000 yd matches? Why shoot cowboy action? Why shoot indoor rimfire? How about high power matches? Why try to shoot in the low 2's with a 20 lb. rifle? We don't do any of those activities in the hunting field or self defense arena, under those conditions. But each is a legitimate sport in its own right, and any form of practice makes us better at what we do.

I also don't really understand why anyone is upset about information about a shooting seminar. Would you be upset if someone told you about a match coming up? How about if a popular hunting/shooting writer were going to give a seminar in your town? Would you be offended if someone posted that information?

You folks need to chill out. IDShooter

 

[Zeppelin!]

I give up, I am starting a 300 yard bb gun match at Butterfly's

 

[MikeG]

Now THAT would sure teach you to pay attention to the wind, LOL!

 

[Zeppelin!]

Lots of drift, wonder if they sell tunston carbide BB's...hmmm

 

[xphunter]

To any interested parties. Don Bower has been doing this kind of shooting for years--he is now in his mid-70's.
This is legitimate. It is not a bunch of horse manure.
This is not off-hand shooting and it is not silohette (sorry for the poor spelling), it is primarily bench shooting with some field shooting practice from field positions to those interested as will be explained below. Several years ago the American Rifleman sent a reporter out and did a story on Don Bowers with an apology from the editor in the intro. Accurate Rifle did publish an article from last year's clinic. We are not using revolvers or revolver cartridges. I will be glad to answer as many questions as I can. We are just wanting to get the word out. My apologies if this was posted in the wrong forum. I just assumed there might be some handgunners who use specialty handguns that would like to know about this. A question was posed on another web forum about what barrel lengths Don uses and a short breakdown of the clinic. Here was my reply:


"Grey Eagle,
Don is still using 14-15 inch barrels and the longer barrels (carbine length) all with pistol grip in both Contender and Encore frames.
I will have my XP's (250 Savage Imp.,6.5-284, 284 Win., and 7.82 Patriot) and my MOA (22-250 AI & 260 Rem.) that will be available for those to shoot also.
My MOA are 14 inch barrels and the 250 Imp., 284 & Patriot are 15 3/4 barrels and the 6.5-284 is a 17 inches.
Last year we ate breakfast (Was it a VFW? It was always good!), before we started.
Monday morning will be devoted to what Don calls the basics. There will also be some teaching on wind, mirage, etc. We (some but not all) will be shooting in the afternoon of the first day some. This year we will likley do the instruction out at the range which will be advantagous. Tuesday will start with a little instruction and a lot more hands on shooting. Students will be broken up in pairs (shooter/spotter) and will take turns shooting and spotting. Last year the starting distance was 500 meters. Everyone will shoot at this distance at the rams. Folks using their own stuff may have a more difficult time at longer ranges if they have a limited cartridge and if their mount/scope set-up is not conducive to shooting from 550-800 yards. Plans to bring a stump to the 800 yard mark for a traditional stump shoot that Don typically does in the mountains and there will be golf ball shooting and bullet splitting @ 660 yards. All of this takes time since you have to repaint and pick up your targets from time to time. During all of this you will be putting into practice what Don has been teaching and will have assistance if needed.
The paired teams will probably do a little fun competition with other teamed pairs to work at shooting under some stress.

An added component this year is to offer for those who are interested some information and tactics for field shooting whether it be long range coyotes or big game hunting. There will be one or two laptops there that will have Exbal loaded on it and we will show you how to optimize your standard plex reticule and or ballistic plex reticule and help you set-up your reticule to where you can estimate range with it in the field at unknown distances and wind, and then shoot at these unknown distance from the bench first and field positions second if you so desire at targets that have the same back to brisket as you would encounter inthe field. Maybe a good way to say it is sort of tactical shooting for game with a specialty handgun. Steve and I have always worked as a team (spotter/shooter) when hunting big game together. you don't have to do it that way, but it makes it easier. This part is not a requirement to do if you come but rather an option you can choose if you want to begin to increase your ability in this area.
One of the things I enjoyed the most was just being with a group of like-minded guys for four days and learning from each other. Last year on the last day some guys went prarie dog shooting. That would be a possibility, but I would encourage staying at the range, since it is not often you get to do this kind of shooting everyday.
Even though you won't shoot at big game at the distances you will attempt at the clinic, you will increase your shooting skills and confidence which will trickle down into your big game hunting and varminting.
We are also wanting to evaluate each year what we can do better, so as to better equip ourselves and others to be sustained shooters."

Ernie

 

[Zeppelin!]

One has to ask the question at what point does it stop being a pistol/revolver and becomes a rifle? 14" sounds way too long for a pistol to me. So I guess the question is, what defines a pistol/revolver vrs a Rifle? It cant be the stock as most of us have pistol grip shotguns but we dont call them pistols. If I cut the stock off my .338 weatherby and put a pistol grip on it I would say its a .338 weatherby rifle with a pistol grip.

 

[MikeG]

The ATF defines what's a pistol and what's a rifle..... !

 

[xphunter]

I have seen discussions about what is appropriate barrel lengths in revolvers and whether you really hunt with a handgun if you have any kind of an optic other than an iron sight and the arguments ensue. Or if you use a contender or encore you can only be considered a handgun hunter/shooter if you shoot a straight walled case and or have a barrel under 10 inches. In the archery world, hunters shoot themselves in the foot (pun intended) when they argue and fight among themselves depending on if they are traditional long-bow, recurve, or compound. Add to the arguement sights or instinctive and fingers or release. The same thing has happened in the world of blackpowder. Regardless of what you think, these specialty handguns are still considered by BATF as handguns if my understanding is correct.
Just like 1,000 yard bench rifles are a far cry from what most sane people would carry in the field to hunt big game-they are still rifles. Rifles built for a special purpose. These are handguns built for a special purpose. I have hunted big game with revolvers (iron and optics) in 454 Casual. My preference and joy is shooting and hunting with specialty handguns. I'm not trying to talk you into liking them or wanting one. I'm just informing those who do hunt/shoot with specialty handguns about a neat way to further develop their skills at long range.
Ernie

 

[Coldfingers]

Ernie,

Pretty well spoken.

I remember the time I almost got one of those XP's but they did not have one in .35Remington so I waited.

I still do not have one. Yet. If I ever get the hankerin for long range varmint hunting, that would be the route I go (in something in a hot .22 cal)

Now when you ask me about Confound bows, you will probably get some negative input 8*)

Scotty