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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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I could get them to feed in a Ruger P-90, but had to seat them so deep that a lot of powder space was lost. Didn't try to work up loads.

Instead I used some generic 255gr. LSWC's, with about 5 grains of WW231 (this from the Speer manual although for their 260gr. JHP). Works fine in P90, sorry, haven't tried in a 1911.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
LBT WFN won't work in 1911

A few days ago I loaded a Cast Performance 265 gr LBT GC bullet into a .45 acp case. Feeds fine, but won't chamber in either of the two 1911s I tried. The wide driving band in front of the crimp groove prevents the bullet from entering the throat. Too bad for me, I thought it was a great idea.
 

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Just curious,

Why would you use that design and weight in a .45ACP? It would seem that it would be slow at any safe presure.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
TMam said:
Just curious,

Why would you use that design and weight in a .45ACP? It would seem that it would be slow at any safe presure.
To get the effectivness of a cast bullet up to a JHP, it must have a wide meplat. None of the .45 acp cast bullet designs have a wide meplat, therefore I wanted to try bullets designed for .45 revolvers. I have not given up, because some of the old timers talk about using the Ideal/Lyman Keith bullet in .45 acp. My NEI mold for the Keith style bullets throws them about 265 grains, a bit heavy for the short acp case. 240 to 250 grains would be a better weight.
 

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neal, several years ago while actively shooting bowling pins we used an e&e hard cast simi wad cutter in 255g loaded over 5g of ww231. as close as I can measure the meplat seems to be .300 to .310 on this bullet. We fired this load thru my clolt and a friend springfield both guns had ramped polished feeds and were compensated. I remember little or no feed problems with these set-ups. I would think if one could find a truncated cone WFN it should feed fine.
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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Neal,

The WFN bullets aren't the best match for a 1911 .45 ACP, but a standard 255gr. SWC can be driven to around 900 fps without problems. This is right up there with the 230gr. jacketed velocities, with a nice increase in bullet weight. I'm confident that this load would be a good performer in the field, within reasonable limitations. It's pretty well the equivalent of black-powder .45 Colt loads, which says a lot.

I'd think that a LFN bullet at about 260 grains would just be the cat's meow in .45 ACP, but haven't found one yet. Marshall has an LFN which is a little heavier (~280gr.) but not much load data at that weight.
 

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I have tried something very similar using a 265gr Castperformance WFNGC using 45super brass. In my 1911 with a extra power 28lb recoil spring the WFN would chamber but would not go into full battery as you have mentioned. However, I have no problems firing them in my Glock 30 with a spring upgrade.

I have recently switched over to the lyman 250gr Keith and they work perfectly in both my Glock and 1911. Haven't had a chance to chrono those loads but I am hoping to get close to 950fps out of my 1911
 

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Hi, Gents:
Lyman had a 238 gr. SWC, 452423, that Paco Kelly was fond of in the .45 ACP. He had an article in one of the Sixgun forums on it. (Took a quick look, but couldn't find it.)

Bye
Jack
 

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Hi, Gents:
Stubby little fellow. It takes a 424 top punch & seating screw and weights 238 grains, depending on alloy. It was listed in the 1990 catalogue, but not in the 1993 catalogue.

Bye
Jack
 

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Discussion Starter #13
452423

I just checked the Lyman website. It's not listed, so it's maybe gone forever. There was one sold on e-bay a while back. It went for $78.00 and it was a single cavity ! Holy cow! I'll keep looking though. I think it's what I want.

Thanks,
 

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Neal,

I also saw that single cavity 452423 mould several weeks back on ebay. Unfornately my max was outbid. Someone must have been looking for that mould for a while and wanted it real bad. Oh well better luck next time.
 

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This is exactly the thread I've been searching for. I ordered BTB's 255 WFN in July but have'nt received them, so I got Cast Performance's 265 WFN. I made up some dummy rounds to see if they would/feed chamber. At 1.185 they would feed and chamber in my Springfield and Colt. A little tight in the Springfield due to the above mentioned driving band. I am going to use AA#7, 45 Super brass to work up some loads. I would like to have this as my hunting backup/ camping, etc. load. I currently carry my Colt Govt. with 40 Super - 200 BTB FNGC @ 1300 fps. This load penetrates to China and leaves as wide a cavity ( in saturated phone books) as my hp loads. I will post results here, and would very much like to know how everyone else's heavy loads are doing. Thanks for the info., I appreciate all the knowledge you guys have here.
 

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Lomas,

Sounds like you already got a good load going with your 40super. And yes, those Beartooth 200gr FN's penetrate like crazy.

I did some 10mm penetration test a while back with that bullet into dry 2" thick phone books using a compact Glock 29. The following are the results:

200gr Beartooth went into 4 books and started tearing into the 5th
It cut a nice clean channel and the large meplat smeared and deformed. On the second try I pulled the shot to the left and the bullet went into the spines of all 4 books. This time the bullet got severely deformed and a 25% chunk of it actually shattered off. Also the gas check on this particular one separated from the bullet

200gr Hornady FMJ went into 4 books and started tearing into the 5th
The wound channel was not as impressive as the beartooth but it held together better and retain 100% of its weight. The truncated cone had actually compressed and turned into a cylinder by the time it got to the 4th book

200gr XTP went into 3 ¼ books
The bullet shed its jacket on the beginning of the 2nd book while the core kept on going forward with no expansion

220gr Precision FP went into 3 ½ books
The FP had smeared and deformed turning into something that looks like a round nose ball probably due to the softer lead

155gr Georgia Arms GDHP went into 2 3/4 books
The GD expanded and deformed into something like .75, along the way it also lost 2 of its petals. I was actually surprised as to how much this one penetrated compared to the heavier weights.

Just for fun I also shot my stock G30 with the following:

45Super
265gr Cast Performance WFN went into 3 books
The bullet got somewhat smeared and the meplat actually got compressed and increased in size cutting a very clean and impressive channel slightly larger than the diameter of a dime

45ACP +P
230gr Georgia Arms GDHP went into 1 1/3 books
The HP got clogged and smeared
 

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Ban, great stuff, thank you. What were the velocities of the loads you tested? Especially curious about the BTB and Cast Perf. loads. The following are some 40 Super loads into saturated phone books: wt/vel/pen/ret.wt/exp
135factory/1800/6.5/56/.5
155XTP/1450/6.25/124/.62
155G.D./1450/7.5/155/.63
175S.T./1200/6.75/165/.85
175S.T./1350/6.5/ frag.
180XTP/1300/8/140/.60
200XTP/1300/9.5/160/.62
200BTB/1300/24+/196/.40
I want to work up the 255/265 cast load to around 1000fps and see what kind of accuracy, penetration, etc. I get. I've never been a fan of cast bullets, but now that I've actually tried them I'm amazed. With the WFN stuff I see wide wound channels AND deep penetration AND consistant performance. Hats off to Marshall and the folks over at Cast Performance, from what I've seen they are the best around.
 

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I did not get a chance to chrono those loads yet in my G29. However, the same load in McNett’s G20 with a 6” Barrel is getting 1380fps. I would think that the same load in the G29 is probably getting right around 1200fps. I am not sure what the velocity is with the G30 and 265gr Castperformance. I will need to chrono those along with the G29 to find out for sure. I went to the range this past weekend with the intention of using my chrono to gather some data. Unfortunately, the weather wasn’t too great.

According to Alliant Powders under the 45acp section, a 260gr JHP with 8.3gr of BlueDot will do about 780fps out of a 5” barrel. I used 7.0gr as a starting point with the 265gr in a 45Super Case and worked up to 9.0gr with no noticeable pressure signs from both my Glock30 and 1911 (substituted with 250 Keith). Warning: I only guarantee these loads to be safe in my guns. As always, start with a reduced load and slowly work up.

The .401 Beartooth 200gr FNGC @ 1300fps out of a 5” 1911 is quite impressive. I sure wouldn’t feel under armed with 8 rds of those in a 1911. I believe McNett was able to get something like 1460fps!!! with the same bullet out of a G20 with a 6” Barrel. BTW, I was able to get a 135gr Nosler JHP to 1750fps with my G20 with a 6” barrel.

My current sidearm is the G29 stocked with 10rds of Beartooth 200gr FNGC. It is ideal for me because it is compact, lightweight, and still packs 10rds or respectable whallop that will penetrate really well. As a matter of fact I will be heading out for a Boar hunt tomorrow morning with my partner. Will be bringing my Marlin 444P Outfitter and my G29. Who knows, if I can get close enough I may try to take Mr piggy with my Glock. Wish me luck J
 

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Ban, excellent choice of arms for your pig hunt. If I were going for hog I'd have my 1911 with the BTB 200 and my 45-70 GS with Cast Performance 405 WLNGC at about 1700. Love to see how that BTB would do on a hog. Plenty I think. Wish you well.
 

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I to have been messing with this larger than 230 gr bullet idea with the 45 ACP. My load is a LSWC 255gr at .452 (Lee Mould) over 5.5 gr of W231 OAL is 1.185 any longer an they will not feed in my P90 . I'll let you know what it Chrono's at here soon as I get a chance to shot some. Hoping to get around the 875 to 900 FPS.
 
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