Shooters Forum banner

1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
All my shots are low, no matter what pistol is shot.I shoot everything from .22 - .45 and it doesn't seem to matter. I think it has something to do with how I hold the pistol but cannot figure it out. Any idea?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,650 Posts
How experienced are you? Do you know for sure you are not flinching? Have you tried adjusting your sights or changing your sight picture so you see more of the front blade? Do you concentrate your eyes on the front sight and let the target be a blur?

Tons of stuff you can do if it's consistant. If you are shooting good groups, but they are all low, I would think about changing my sight picture if the sights are not adjustable.

You may be pushing forward on the pistol without realizing it in anticipation of the recoil.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
747 Posts
90% of the time someone shoots low, it is just as BKeith said- flinching in anticipation of recoil.

If you are getting tight groups consistantly but shooting low it most likely is something else like sight picture. My next door neighbor is an older guy, but he is a pretty good shot with a handgun. The problem is no matter what the gun is, he shoots to the left....always, so I have to adjust his sights for him to hit the bull while HE is shooting the gun. Anyone else who then shoots the gun will hit to the right with it. It is how he sees the sights compared to the rest of us that shoot his guns when trying to help him.

If you're still fairly new to shooting, there's no harm in admitting you may be flinching. It doesn't make you a "sissy" or anything else. We've all been there, done that. You just need to practice and concentrate on your shooting, your grip on the gun, stance, etc., more than where your shots are hitting the target until you get it all down correctly.

This may help you diagnose what is happening if you are getting good groups, but constantly hitting low. Click on the thumbnail below to enlarge it so you can read it-
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
446 Posts
I agree......sight picture. If you are shooting at an indoor range at 10yds or less, your sight picture should be different than shooting at 25-50yd. This also depends on what type sights you have on the individual pistols. I've found that night sights on my Glocks actually improve my hits over the stock sights where I generally need to adjust my sight picture other than what's natural for me.
Welcome to the forum!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
99 Posts
Anticipating the shot will cause this. Careful and precise dry firing is a tool you can use to correct it. If you can master trigger management you can look to other possibilities. Right now you need to master trigger control and squeeze.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,213 Posts
Take somebody with you and have them hand you your pistol loaded or unloaded randomly this will tell you if you are flinching. Like others said you may need to adjust your sight picture or maybe your sights.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Thank you all for the recommendations. I've tried the tricks with snap caps and have had a few cases of the flinches, but those were down and right. Now I'm just down. I put one of those Crimson Trace laser grips on my .40 Glock 27 and didn't use the sights and was still low. I'm thinking I've got to work on the sight picture. Ticks me off because I'm pretty darn good with a rifle and open sights. Any ideas on drills etc?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,210 Posts
~ Dry fire with your eyes closed. This will get your fingers and hands to work pulling the trigger.

~ Once trigger control is achieved, then open your eyes and incorporate sight alignment.

~ Once trigger control and sight alignment are achieved, then incorporate a target and work on sight picture.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,948 Posts
Frist thing is to find out if you are flinching or pushing the barrel at the target. Now the fastest way is to let someone load your pistol for you and then stand by your side and watch you pull the trigger on the pistol, while trying to hit your target.

Since you will not know what is coming up, a hot round or dead round, this will let the person know quickly if in fact you have a Flinch or Pushing the barrel of your weapon at the target.:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
240 Posts
Anticipating the shot will cause this. Careful and precise dry firing is a tool you can use to correct it. If you can master trigger management you can look to other possibilities. Right now you need to master trigger control and squeeze.
Dry fire practice can be the fastest and most-effective way to improve shooting. You will see before your own eyes anticipation of the shot, if indeed that's what's happening. Note that Rascal didn't say "this will fix it" and neither did I...but it is a powerful method.

Often when I dry fire practice, I still flinch a little tiny wee bit, usually on the first two or three 'shots'. Consider that this happens even though I know the gun is empty. This is why I often argue that getting a low-recoil gun such as a .22 'to learn with' isn't necessarily going work any better than a 45 will: the problem can still occur with a gun you know full-well has no recoil at all.

If you want some real fun and instructive evidence, set up a video camera/phone pointed at your face and take a dry-fire 'shot' or two.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
676 Posts
Dry Fire

Here is a start, it's a drill you do at home and what you learn at home if you work it hard will carry over to the range.

If you hold your arm straight out in front of you and hold your thumb up can you see the striations on your thumbnail clearly using both eyes, in other words is it in focus? You are a bifocal creature, that is you have an eye on either side of your face and they will turn in to focus on that sight about 30" in front of your nose. If you can do that then both eyes should be working and you can focus on the front sight, That is the hard part and you can see well enough to shoot like a marksman.

Next step is get snap caps for the caliber of your choice and insert it into the gun. Some guns are okay to dry fire without snap caps but most rim fires require them. Even if you don't need them I insert them anyway because now I know for dead certain the gun is safe. Looking into the chamber tells me I have a snap cap or dummy round instead of a live round. It's cheap insurance.

Get a plain sheet of typing or copy paper and in the very center of the paper use a fine point pen with black ink and make a little cross with 2.5 cm horizontal and vertical lines. No larger. Fasten that paper on a horizontal surface at shoulder height in a location with good light.

Pick up your chosen handgun with the off hand and place it in your shooting hand and get a good grip. Grip it firmly like you would a handshake, not to loose, not so tight that you shake. Extend your arm so the muzzle of your gun is no more than a cm away from the paper. Focus on that front sight with both eyes. You will see that the vertical line goes straight up the middle of the sight and the horizontal line sits squarely on the top of your front sight. Your front sight should now be centered in the notch of your rear sight and level.

Now with the gun cocked, your focus entirely on the front sight you play a little mind game. Imagine the sight is one solid piece attached to the trigger. When you pull the trigger back you are trying to pull the front sight back through the center of your rear sight. If you pull, yank, anticipate, jerk, grab anything but a perfect trigger pull those lines will move away from the front sight like a seismometer detecting an earthquake.

The objective of this exercise is to get 10 perfect shots and what you will discover is that when your focus is on the sight/trigger you will have no idea when the gun goes off. That will be your good shot.

Now the fun begins, switch the gun to your left hand and start over again. You will be sweating and hurting and mad at me but I will guarantee you that the top shooters do this and this is why they are top shooters.

Now the easy part, get your two handed grip and take 10 more shots but this part is pretty redundant. The whole point of the exercise is to get your focus on the front sight while your trigger finger squeezes the trigger without disturbing your sight alignment no matter which hand or hands you are using. If you can do that you can do it standing on one leg leaning over a table shooting through a door at an oblique angle or hanging by your knees from a trapeze bar. You will not know what position you will be in when you have to shoot but sight picture and consistent trigger pull will increase your chances of hitting what you want shot. Using both eyes will aid in your sight picture.

Has anybody showed you how to find your natural point of aim. Get in your natural shooting stance, close your eyes and raise your arm out to the shooting position. When you have your arm extended move it to the left and to the right and feel the tension in your back and chest, when you center your arm in a neutral position you have your natural point of aim, Open your eyes and look at where your gun is pointing. If you are off the target move your rear foot to correct your position not your arm and not your waist. Drop your gun to ready position, (45 degrees), close your eyes and raise your arm. Look, are you now pointed at the target. If you are not adjust by shifting your whole body by moving your rear foot again. Once you find your natural point of aim remember it.

Not last but I will end this little book for now by telling you what you already know. When you get your natural point of aim down, your eyeballs focused on the front sight, your trigger under control try and spend more time on the slow fire target and not the close up time and rapid fire drills. They are good for your ego but don't teach you how to shoot. Matches are won and lost during the slow fire portion and the concentration you learn practicing way out there may bruise your ego but will do wonders for burning the basics into your mind and muscles.

Any gun, any caliber, you master this and concentrate on every shot you will stop shooting low, high left or right. You will also find your groups getting tighter then they have been.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Thanks Old Grump! I tried the natural aim drill and found I was always low. I have to get to the range but it looks like my right wrist, right-handed, was set down. I think it's from push/pull drills I have heard about in the past; where the shooter pushes with the right hand and pulls with the left to get an even grip.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,650 Posts
Shooting a rifle and a pistol just ain't the same. I am very good with a rifle, but just really got into shooting a pistol a couple years ago. When I first started, I wished shooting low was my only problem, I was shooting all over the place. It took me several months to learn to concentrate on that front sight and just let the target be a blur. I'm very good at instinct shooting with a rifle and have always concentrated on the target. When I was finally able to forget what I knew about shooting a rifle, and started practicing what I was suppose to do with a pistol, I've finally gotten pretty darn accurate out to about 50 yards. That's also after about 4,000 round, however, I consider the first 1,000 wasted on my being hardheaded and thinking I was still shooting a rifle.

You mention using a G-27, that baby Glock may be part of your problem. My wife's is a G-27 and while it's pretty accurate, it's very hard for me to shoot with that small grip. I have a very large hand, XL gloves are too small, and while my G-20SF feels fine, that baby Glock takes some getting used to.

Also, dry fire practice, dry fire practice, and when done, dry fire some more. For the 4K+ rounds of ammo I've put down the barrels, I've probably dry fired 50 thousand. Concentrate on the front sight when squeezing the trigger the whole time. See if you can keep it from twitching when the trigger breaks. I don't think you can but you can make sure it's still on target the whole time.

One thing I learned that helped bunches also, don't move your hands to align sights when shooting, reposition pistol in your grip until the sights are aligned with your hands in their normal position aimed at the target.
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
Top