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Do you believe the time has come to "whack" Iraq? Has a definite connection in Iraq's involvement in and support of terrorism been conclusively proven? If so, has the time come to take definitive action against the Iraqi regime, and overthrow Saddam Hussein? Can you think of any legitimate grounds for further delay? Do you believe war is imminent?

Kindest regards,
Timberwolf ;)
 

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Hello from Scotland~

I was born in Bahrain due to my Fathers work (Commercial Diver) On and off i have lived in the gulf for about fifteeen years.

Our do gooders DO NOT under stand the Arab mind and there way of thinking ! I have NO doubt that old Saddam would use Nuclear weapons on london.New York etc although they have nothing to gain and could kill millions of inocent people, the do gooders DO NOT understand this.And DO NOT beleive he would !

ITs a great pitty that BUSH senior did not finish him off the first time ! Also the UN has acted like a toothless old dog ! And let Saddam get away with too much.

Now im not Anti-arab i love the Gulf, its warm desert winds and wildlife, also met some very nice peolpe indeed.

It is a great shame that the UN does not intervene in the Israil/Palestinian caper...... Peace keeping troops are the first step ! Sort that out once and for all and your solved 99 % of the problem.......................................

Englander
 

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Disclaimer: The below post is based on my personal lifes experiances and observations. No flames are intended. Every one has the right to their own opinions. This is mine.


First the Arab/ Israil conflict cannot be stopped or controled by the UN, or the United States or any one else. It has been going on for many centurys and will continue untill one group or the other is eradicated.

As for Middle East as a whole, I believe we need to do the following.
Start drilling and pumping our own oil again, and boycott Arab oil. Buy it from South America or anyplace but the Middle East.
AND:.......................Quit being the police force for the world.
Most of the Arab countries do not want us there. They are our allys ownly as long as we buy their oil.
We need to pull out of that part of the world completly. No troups, no supplies, no bases, nothing. Pull out our ALL our financial involvment. Let them wither and die from lack of American money when we quit buying their oil and sending support.

As for terrorism, if it is perpetrated by a country, declare war on that country and vaporize it. Make that an example for the rest of the world.
If it perpetrated by a group or an organization, go after them. But we are fighting much of the Arab/Muslim world, can we eleminate all of them? No, I don't think so.

But quit doing this war on terrorism half @$$ed!. Doing it this way cost us Viet Nam, and previously Korea. Bush the 1st should have taken Sadam out. We were right at Bagdads door step and he said stop. Now look at us, Bush the 2nd wants more war. It's all he has left to keep his "War on Terrorism" going.

The Bush administration is turning inwards, destroying our liberties, to fight a world problem. He is WRONG!!!
I can't see how destroying the liberties and constitutional rights of American citizens will curtail the terrorist attacts by commited, seuicidal, fanatics.

"Do you believe war is imminent?"
Unfortunatly yes. But it's a war we can never totally win.
 

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Beartooth Regular
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I'm pretty much with Mr Miller on this one. While I think Bush has more integrity than Clinton he is continuing Clinton's model of usurping power that belongs to the legislative branch. That's not so bad as long as a good person is president, but it sets a terrible precedent and opens the door for a too-powerful president to wreak havoc.
I think this is creating as serious a problem as the Iraqi business. We'll never win in the middle east, it's been at war forever. Just my .02. IDShooter
 

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I think that war is imminent with Iraq. Iraq has been violating the UN sanctions and resolutions since the war ended. The UN is a terrible joke. Just look at some of the countries that make up the "human rights" council. I'm sure you understand why none of those jets where flown into the UN headquarters, where they belonged.

As far as the war on terror, we need look no further than our "allies" in Saudi Arabia, you know, the ones who finance Al Quaida and the schools around the region where hatred of America and Cristianity is the lesson. As was previously stated, we need to get our oil locally and from other areas, russia most signifigantly, in order to assure the countries that try to finance our destruction will themselves be financially destroyed. Next time I see that ******** Daschle talking about how we can't drill for oil in the US, I think I'll throw up. The politicians, both sides of the aisle, know full well what is at stake when we send huge sums of money to countries that use that money to finance terrorism against our country. While on that topic, remember who our most potentially dangerous enemy is when you are at Wal-Mart buying all that Chinese crap for Christmas.
 

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Well, here's my .02 worth. War is inevitable in the middle east. The bible tells us the final conflict will be against Israel and other distant countries will flock to her defense. We will be one of those countries. These facts are a given. If Irag will be the catalyst that sets off this final conflict is anyones guess but I believe we must stand against any terrorist group. It is moral and right. It may be political suicide for President Bush but it must be done. Irag proved to the world it was run by a terrorist when it invaded Kuwait and tortured its citisens; men, women and children. the vast majority of those were of the muslim faith. When the United Nations intervened Irag sent scuds to Isreal even though Isreal WAS NOT involved. Saddam has exterminated many of his own people, including several of his own family members. He has financially backed other terrorist groups that have extended terrorism around the world. Make no mistake that he is a terrorist and given enough time he will account for many thousands of innocent deaths. If and when we fight Irag we will incur the rath of all the other muslim nations. We better have the reolve to bear with oil shortages and high prices. Remember when President Bush senior waged Desert Storm and we were at Bagdad's front door it WAS NOT President Bush who wanted to stop and go home. It was the United Nations, the Arab world, and many of our democratic senators. If war is waged we must not let history repeat.
 

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I'll "ibid" Mr. Miller's disclaimer also!

The war as I see it is coming, it's just a matter of time. In echoing Englander, The US and the "west" do not understand Arab culture and policies.

The United States, in my humble opinion need to worry about our selves and Our borders, and let the rest of them wither as Mr. Miller states. We have so many issues at home, that we should stop helping every nation and help ourselves! Education, medicine and the economy are just three simple ones that come to mind.

Call in all the markers we have...France, Germany, Japan, Korea, Vietnam, and a ton of other nations we have poured preverbial buckets of money into for what... I'm sure all those countries are grateful in their own ways, but do any of them OPENLY come to the aid and defense of the United States? England should be openly applauded for it's call to arms to help the US.

Please don't get me wrong, I am for and understand the benevolence of the Greatest Nation in the World, it would just be nice to see the world come to help us, rather than Vise-Versa. The UN is more worried about offending countries than Policing them!

It is my opinion that we as a Nation act in behalf of our best interests for a change, and perhaps the rest of the world should too. We have been the Big Brother/Great uncle/shoulder to cry on- whipping boy for too long!

Chris~:mad:
 

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From some of my other posts, it may surprise some of you to know that i am neither liberal nor conservative. There are things I like and dislike about both approaches to democracy, and i find that signing up for either camp has me identified with individual positions on certain issues that i can't live with.

So, I'm an independent, which has one additional advantage: both camps need to convince me if they want my vote and/or support.

Given that awkward disclaimer, I do like what this administration has accomplished to date by taking a hard, no nonsense position. I believe that we have actually intimidated Sadam, and that he is in a very defensive position as a result. The last war there did show him that we can and will take him out in short order if we need to. We need to wait for the other shoe to fall, and see if he stonewalls the UN team, and maintain an even tougher stance while the drama unfolds.

If he stonewalls, we need to start off with an air campaign immediately, and not disclose the timing of our use of ground troops. This will prevent him from buying time to hide weapons, and keep the risk and cost of the war effort to a minimum for several months. In the end, we may or may not have to invade.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I would like to submit something that a friend told me that he believes is really going on behind the scenes (in sending the weapons' inspection team) to Iraq, though it is at this point pure conjecture on his part. He says, "The team isn't going to see if Saddam has weapons of mass destruction; we know he has those. They are in Iraq in order to locate targets for the impending war, probably non-civilian targets to avoid unnecessary casualities if at all possible." What do you think? Do you think he's far off base?

Regards,
Timberwolf
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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Not too many good choices, it seems like 'do it now' or 'do it after they nuke/poison/etc. an American city.'

Can't imagine that Iraq has much of an army left after the Gulf War, etc., however that could make them even more dangerous, that their only option could be weapons of mass destruction.

Sure wish this had been taken care of in the Gulf War.
 

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I invite you all to explore www.theaircar.com and see what the most important vehicle since the Roman Chariot is being manufactured in Nice. France.

I read in today's newspaper that Bush has begun a tour of mid-eastern countries asking for their aid in several areas. One is to "protect" the vast oil fields in northeastern Iraq from Saddam's enemies and to prevent them from forming their own small country. If anyone actually believes his garbage, I have some swampland waterfront property in the panhandle of Florida I'll sell ypou cheap. Iraq has the second largest oil reserves in the world. Is it any wonder why Bush wants to "protect" it ?

csward
 

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Im affraid i must take Mr Miller to task on a couple of points, firstly to say the Palestinian/Israli conflict can not be sorted out defies logic, one day it will come to an end.......

As for saying the only way is for one side to wipe the other off the face of the planet ! Whilst it could work in this day and age NO whole sale genocide of any ethenic group would be tolarated by the rest of the world.

The sooner Israil realizes genocide is not an option the sooner the the mess can be resolved,and it can be resolved.

As for boycotting Arab oil ! It simply would not work ! The world of supply and damand greedy businessmen would not allow, if there oil was cheaper than yours, whos do you think they'd buy ??? cheaper oil !! You bet we'd buy it!

For the evidence simply look to China..... Never been our best buddy, has huge quanities for natural resources not to mention men power and Army.
It has the potential to be the worlds SUPER POWER !!! Yet British, US, European, Asian businessmen continue to pour BILLIONS into China due to there CHEAP labour (theres that word again)........One day will we reap the consequeces ????

The Majority of Gulf states Saudi,Kuwait,Qatar,Bahrain,Dubui etc Are peaceful and whilst they have eliments very much anti-west the, "establishment" has to much to loose, there prosperity is more important than there religion !

Whilst the west does not understand and comprehend the Arab mind and cultural identiy,Saddam completely under stands ours..... And knows how to play our own system against us. Hence the years of mucking about, whilst he can order an attack, killing etc right NOW ! without answering to anyone or asking permission He knows we must go though the proper channels which takes time , he sees this as a weakness and is right to do so.

Bush- In Europe and Britain certinally he is seen as a bit of a gun totting cowboy type of charecter, not very sophisticated or wise in world politics... Yet he and he alone has had the determination to do what needs to be done and force the UN to get of it back side !
He is the right man at the right time and his unsophisticated simplicity in this case is a strength not a weakness. Well done Mr Bush !!!

As for the rest of the world particulary France,Italy, modern Germany etc they have no stomach for hard choices and hard fighting.

Well got a bit carried away ! No offence ment to any one, after all we are all entitled to our opinons right or wrong.

Englander ;)
 

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Englander,

Well said!
Our problem is that we do not learn or have forgeten history.
Europe and Japan re-write it!
You could have included the Balkens, Cambodia and Tibet.
 

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Because we are the good guys and normally act with caution and restraint, people in many parts of the world see us as weak. It is time to disabuse the world of this notion. Start with the removal of Saddam and pump enough of his oil to feed the Iraqi's and to pay us back for two wars. Then we turn the CIA and groups like Delta Force loose to hunt down and execute Al Queda members where they're found and any other group that wants to test their skills against us. If you back down from a bully, he'll just keep coming after you.
 

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I must add another comment about "whacking Irac". I stand by my first comment above. These people have hit the US the worst in the terrorist attacks, but they did it from within. So after reading the thread posted about the profiling of Arab types, I will add that we need to round up with predjudice ALL Arabs that are not US citizens and deport them. They are too much of a risk to just let them sit here. No questions, no due process, (they are not US citizens so they don't or shouldn't have consitutional rights), no delays. Pick them up, put them on ships with a military convoy escort and take them back to someplace in the Middle East and drop them off.

Then we need to close our borders to all but documented visitors. Put a moratorium on imigration for a while. We could do this with the troups we brought back from the Middle East.
While we were at it, we could grab all the illegals from other countries too. Get rid of them. Tell the bleeding heard whimps to shut up about this, and just do it.
 

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Hello folks,

Interesting ideas and philosophies. Just a few kernels of information for ya'll to mull over.

1. A military solution is the only solution for politicians when they fail at their jobs.

2. Politicians are the ultimate in REMF's. (Rear echelon Mother ......)

3. Politicians tend to be elitists and maintain a distance from the people they are supposed to be serving.

4. They raise taxes and add requirements that they seem to be able to avoid. Then they invoke the ultimate tax when they send our young men and women into harms way.

5. To add insult to injury, these politicians in and out of military service "lead" our troops by hammstringing them with illogical requirements...

a. No ammo in weapons. Locked up in ammo can. Key held by Captain or above. (Beirut Airport)
b. No standard military barriers/protection. Wouldn't want locals to think we were there to take over. (Beirut A/P)
c. Do not return fire when fired on. Sniper Abbott- 6:15 pm local. Three rounds from balconey of apartment. Then finish drinking cold drink. Six days a week. He was just relieving the stress of a hard day a work. Good thing he didn't have an SVD rifle.

5. Send in military to make arrest of third world dictator/drug runner. Must use all branches of military so no one feels left out. ( Another time happened in the desert of Iran.... remember?)

6. Stopped successful military campaign, "It would be like running up the score in a football game." Only problem with combat that politicians and news service is that the enemy shoots back. If they surrender then you can take away their weapons. If they fight, then...

Just a few kernels, this pickle is made by the sour mix of politicians and special interests that will not have deal with their inept or lasse' fare' attitudes and actions.

Funny how personal it gets when they are shooting at you, your buddy, or brother.

These lace and champagne folks will never hear the tale-tell buzz, smack, or thud of rounds that really don't care who you are or what your dreams and hopes are.
(Kinda like a politician... don't care)

Sorry, I'll get off the soap box.
 
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