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Discussion Starter #1
ok guys, which one do you use and why is it any better than the other ones. i will be working .44's, and .458's. just want to buy the right one the first time. all reccommendations are appreciated. the 458's will be gas checked.

halfbreed
 

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I have 3 lymans and they are servicable. The rcbs is better though. and the star is better yet but a little harder to find dies for. Id recomend the rcbs
 

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halfbreed,
            Lloyd said it all. As far as quality, price, ease of operation, the RCBS is the way to go. I'd love a star, but price for the unit and sizing dies for all the calibers wouldn't make it too practical. I've had my RCBS for about 10 yrs now. Its given me tough, reliable service after sizing lord knows how many thousands of rounds. Still going strong.

                                    Jeff
 

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Discussion Starter #4
thanks guys, i was pretty much thinking rcbs to begin with. but just wanted to see what the popular opinion was.

halfbreed
 

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Also consider the Lee sizer dies. I like to size in a lubesizer, in my case one of my two Stars, then if I need a smaller diameter for a different gun, I'll run the already sized and lubed bullets through one of the Lee dies as needed. Works very well. Eliminates buying numerous lubesizer dies. Just standardize on the largest diameter you would need in your lubesizer.

Good for sizing store bought bullets too.

The Saeco sizer is worth a look too in a conventional sizer. Excellent machine.

Regards
 

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Hi, Halfbreed:
   There seems to be a consensus that the RCBS is better mechanically, but Lyman dies are smoother and take less muscle to run a bullet into them.  Lyman and RCBS dies and top punches are interchangeable, Saecos aren't.  

   Most of my stuff is green, but I got a new Lyman at a very good price last year, and so far so good.

Bye
Jack
 

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I've bought a couple Star lubrisizers on ebay pretty reasonable. I've also gotten my dies and punches from there. My RCBS sits and gathers dust most of the time as I've got the Stars setup for .41 and .45ACP stuff. Stars are the cadilac of lubrisizers in my humble opinion and I've used Saeco, Lyman, and RCBS. Now if I could just keep myself in lead!
 

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Discussion Starter #8
o.k. guys, the saeco says that their lubricant chamber is pressurized. so as to grease 20-50 rnds, before adjusting the lubricant. is this the same with lyman and rcbs. or is this truly different.$30.00 diff. between lyman and saeco is not enough to think about in a once a lifetime purchase. thanks halfbreed
 

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halfbreed,

All the reservoirs are "pressurized" by varying plunger type spring mechanisms.

My Star has an added "piston pump" arrangement at the bottom of the reservoir also that forces lube under pressure into the sizing die on the end of the downstroke. This is because it is a push through type sizer. The ejector pin in the dies of the other lubesizers acts in effect like a lube shutoff valve when it comes back up to eject a freshly sized/lubed bullet.

Just different ways/designs of accomplishing the same thing.

The Saeco has a sliding nose punch platen that rides on two guide rails. Similiar to an H Type reloading press. The RCBS/Lyman design is like and upside down C-Press design so to speak.


Regards



<!--EDIT|Contender|June 12 2002,17:35-->
 

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I can really crank out a lot of bullets with the Ballisticast Mark VI.  I don't think it will do gas checks.  The top punch was real easy to adjust then I just let it heat up, hook the air compressor up to it and start sizing.  I was sizing 45s and 44s.
Here is the link:http://www.ballisti-cast.com/Mark%20VI%20graphic.htm
 

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Do any of you RCBS owners have problems with bullet lube on the bases of every bullet? The owners manual says that when adjusted properly there should be lube only in the grease grooves and nowhere else. I can't adjust mine anyway to prevent this.
 

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Which lubrisizor

I've tried RCBS, Saeco & Star. RCBS and Saeco both get lube on the bullet base. Maybe it is just me, but when I get enough pressure on the lube to fill the bullet's lube-grooves, the grease oozes onto the bullet base. Doesn't matter if I use a hard lube w/heater, or a soft lube. So with the Saeco or RCBS presses, I've gotta wipe-off the base of every bullet.

The star (properly adjusted) doesn't do this at all -- it has a separate lube-valve linkage which is actuated (opened) after the bullet has fully entered the sizing die, with the lube-grooves aligned with the lube-holes in the sizing die. This allows a 'shot' of lube to enter the die and squeeze into the grooves (NOT all over the bullet base or nose). When the handle is raised, the lube 'valve' is closed (thus preventing over-lubrication of the bullet).

I would personally rate the Saeco sizer above the RCBS -- IMO it is just a little better mechanical design... but it still doesn't compare to a Star, which BTW a Star costs 2x what the Saeco / RCBS / Lyman 450 cost, and Star dies & top punches cost 2x also. So, the Star is a rather pricey solution. However, it is also much faster, and saves the time and effort of cleaning bullet lube off of the base of each bullet.

(I've not yet got my hands on a Lyman 450, but it appears to be designed exactly like the RCBS).

I have to agree with Jack Monteith's earlier post that the Lyman dies (which fit both Lyman and RCBS presses) are slightly better than the RCBS sizing dies.

I just today heard of the ballisticast sizer -- news to me! --CC
 

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Hi, Gents:
I've got a hunch that the Ballisti-Cast is a Star. Any of the Star users should know if they see the picture on Ballisti-Cast's site. Sean's link isn't working. Try again.
http://www.ballisti-cast.com/Mark VI graphic.htm

Incidently, the Saeco is based on a Lyman 1892 patent.

One gent on the Cast Bullet List claims he gets better accuracy from some Lyman sized bullets, compared to Star sized bullets. You don't have to size the front band if you use a Lyman (& I suppose RCBS & Saeco), and that may help accuracy.

Bevel based bullets get a lot more lube on their bases than flat based bullets. That figures since the lube will squirt in and fill the bevel on the Lyman type sizers. The Star pump gets around that.

Bye
Jack
 

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Out of curiosity, among those who have used them all, what makes the RCBS, Star, and SAECO preferable to the Lyman? I've only used the Lyman lubrisizer so can't comment on the others.
 

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The star... has a separate lube-valve linkage which is actuated (opened) after the bullet has fully entered the sizing die... This allows a 'shot' of lube to enter the die and squeeze into the grooves (NOT all over the bullet base or nose). When the handle is raised, the lube 'valve' is closed (thus preventing over-lubrication of the bullet).
Also... the die on a Star sizer hangs over the edge of the bench upon which it is mounted. The user positions a container under the overhang, and the bullets are pushed through the bottom of the die, and drop into the box. I have a plastic tray that hangs on two small screws on the edge of the bench, about 1-1/2-inches under the press to catch bullets. The operator handles the bullets only once, as opposed to other presses where each bullet is handled twice. As such, the Star is maybe 2x faster in lubing and sizing a large quantity of bullets.

As the bullets pass completely through the Star die, the bullet can be sized nose-first, or base-first. If going nose-first, a single 'flat point' punch can be used to size various bullet calibers... as that punch merely pushes on the flat base of every bullet. If used in this manner, the user does not need a special punch for various calibers and shapes of bullets.

I would say the Saeco is simply a more elegant design than is the RCBS or Lyman. More complex, more machined parts vs. stampings, and perhaps more precise. The Saeco top punch has a tapered shoulder which it is claimed by the manufacturer to accurately center the top punch (and bullet) with the die. Maybe; maybe not.

As Jack Monteith stated previously, the Star is NOT conducive to partial sizing of a bullet. With Saeco, Lyman & RCBS, a bullet can partially pushed into the die, leaving the top band un-sized. As far as I can tell, the Star cannot be set-up to do this.

One very nice aspect of the Lyman and RCBS sizers is that they use the same dies, interchangeably. The Saeco and Star require unique dies. They are all readily available, but it is fairly easy to find Lyman or RCBS dies, new and used, and at reduced prices. --CC
 

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Halfbreed,
I have two sizers;both of them are Lyman #45 tools(the forerunner of the newer #450).One of them was bought new,and has sized a ton of bullets.The other was bought "used",and I don't know how it was used.I can't talk about any other sizing tool because I am very satisfied with what I have.They do a good job of sizing the bullets,are user friendly,and pass the test of time.The only thing That I had to replace is "o" rings.
Frank
 

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Discussion Starter #18
hello all, and thank you to all who have answered back with a reply.

i am trying to get a list together for a 458 wm. 450 gcfn mold, sizer, lube, etc.

also will soon be casting for a 44 629. i am also wondering if lee sizer and alox works up to 2200-2300 fps for the 458.

some say yes, some say no. i have no idea. i am just getting back into casting after some 20 years away from it all.
this is where i am coming from. all the help does help.

THANKS john
 

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Hi-Velocity Large-bore ? Hmmm...

Hey halfbreed, you've asked a very specific and IMO challenging question!
i am also wondering if lee sizer and alox works up to 2200-2300 fps for the 458.
Eventhough I've been casting bullets for quite a few years, I'm certainly NO expert with these long, heavy bullets. Some of the guys that shoot long-range BPCR should be able to offer casting advice, BUT you're going to need a good lube for high-velocity !!!

So, I am GUESSING here ;) but I think I might be very tempted to start with a good commercial hard lube. I might also try Lyman's moly lube. First step would be to phone a couple of the companies that do only bullet lube, and try their recommendation. I would be shocked if Lee liquid alox was a suitable lube for that velocity, but I'm not a big fan of that stuff anyway. --CC
 

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Ouch,

Confession time! Way back when cast bullets were a haphazard event that sometimes worked and often times didn't in my life, I began casting and shooting for the .458 Win Mag. I was on a really tight budget, didn't know beans about bullet mold selection, or what made a good bullet for that matter, and so went for the cheapest route possible to feed my new custom mammoth slayer.

The combination was a Lee .457"-510g RNFP in gas checked guise (single cavity), and Lee Liquid Alox for lube, along with a Lee Push Through type sizing die. (Before they had the dies that fit on your loading press.)

Well, results were miserable, and a kindly older gentleman at the rifle range where I was shooting explained that the key-holing that I was experiencing was due to undersized bullets. He showed me how to lap out the bullet mold cavity, and how to lap out the sizing die to get a larger diameter bullet for my gun.

I tried his fix, and ended up with bullets that dropped from the mold at .461" (I overdid the lapping of the mold), and the sizing die was lapped to size the bullet to .4595". I loaded those bullets in fresh .458 Win Mag cases with 73.0g H335 powder and Federal 215 primers. Once again (against the better judgement of the fellow giving me advice at the range) I used the Lee Liquid Alox for bullet lube. Those loads shot into under an inch and a half at 100 yards!

Nope, this wasn't a fluke. That gun and bullet/load combination would shoot just over an inch at 100 yards on demand. Chronographing some of those loads years later showed that they were pushing just over 2,000 ft/sec. I've still got a few of them sitting on my ammo shelf from a decade and a half ago or longer and yes, they still shoot the same... I fired some last summer just to free up some brass for use with other bullets.

No, I'm not advocating the Lee Liquid Alox, as it's a very sticky, messy proposition, but for this application it worked, as well as some very accurate .30-30 winchester loads that I made up during that same time period.

Perhaps you'll find this info helpful.

God Bless,

Marshall
 
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