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Discussion Starter #1
I just finished the Beartooth Bullets Technical Guide. It was really good reading. I learned a lot from this Manual. I did have some question on the issue of slow burning powders for bottle neck cartridges. It seems that cast bullet loads should use slower burning powders for 30-30  class rounds for best Accuracy rather then faster powders. Example would be the use of H-335 vs H870 for the 173 LFNGC  bullet in the 30-30 listed on page 96 of the Bullet Guide. My problem is that I can't find load information . All my load manuals only give out loads using the medium burning powders with the exception of H-4831. Where can a guy go to find information on loads using the slower burning powders. I do have the Powley Computer slide rule for handloaders but it is for IMR Powders and I like Hodgen powders.  Any info would be greatly appreciated. Could a Beartooth Load Manual be in the future ?
 

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Hello there Big Buck

I might be wrong but, I took it to mean that it is best to use the slower burning powders normally used with jacketed rounds in say the 30/30 rather than the fast burning pistol type powders that are normally advocated for cast bullet loads in rifles.

I would just first try the powders listed for the particular weight bullet you are going to shoot that are on the slower end of the scale in a data manual. You'll notice them by the slower velocities and greater amounts needed, and possibly compressed, charges recommended.

Lee has a neat formula he shows in his book to figure out cast bullet powder charges. It's easier to read it than to type it out here though.

You may very well do good with the normal powders recommended for the particular cartridge. Try what powders you have first.



FWIW


:cool:

(Edited by Contender at 11:51 pm on April 2, 2001)
 

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With cartridges like the .30-30, in which cast & jacketed velocities are so similar, you should get pretty good results from the likes of H414, 335, and 4895. These would yield top velocities for a .30-30/173. For loads somewhat slower but with reduced pressures you could try H450 and 4831.  If you like Hodgdon and have them, why not start there?

I would also second Contender's views on the Lee manual. Much like his reloading tools, Lee's manual is nothing fancy but well worth the money.
 

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One of the reasons that old cast bullet shooters use faster burn powders was.....The equal weight cast bullet to jacketed bulett has much less resistance going into the leades and less friction in the barrel. This less resistance caused less pressure to build up quick enough to expand the neck and shoulders of the stronger cases used with smokeless. This caused smoky necks and shoulders on the case. I have found, if using the modren cases Ex: .30-06, The necks need thinning. It also help to anneal the neck and shoulders og the case.
Best Regards, James
 

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Mr. Gates,

If one were committed to using slower propellants, couldn't a slightly undersize expander ball be used to achieve the same ends? Say with this .30-30, using a .305-.306" expander? Thereby increasing neck tension to compensate for reduced resistance from the slippery cast bullet?

(Edited by Bill Lester at 6:21 pm on April 3, 2001)


(Edited by Bill Lester at 6:22 pm on April 3, 2001)


(Edited by Bill Lester at 6:23 pm on April 3, 2001)
 

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Bill...I think so...much like we need a strong crinp on the Mag's when we shoot powder like WW296/H110. I like the collet crimp on the Lee Rifle dies for this. I thought that all I needed was a slip fit on .30-06 in my Ruger No1...Wrong! I loaded some VV N160 loads (N160 about like IMR 4831)Without the tight crimp...smoked cases. I don't like the real tight neck as to possible damage to the cast bullet. I have found that if the neck is about .001"/.002" under bullet size, I get the best accuracy. So...I use even a larger "M" or expander ball and a real strong collet crimp in the bullet groove.I can't get what I want with the standard roll crimp die, but the collect crimp die let's me get the strong crimp without that bulge at the case mouth. I use the same proceduure on Hank's Remington 141 in .35 Remington. He is shooting the BTB 185 FNGC with 34 grs of Re7 and getting no smoke cases and excellent accuracy. Here again using the collet crimp die. I also seat the bullet to where it is slightly engraved, but not enough to pull the bullet if I unload. This also adds first resistance for powder burn. Of course, everyone has a different system.
Best Regards, James
 

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I'm in complete agreement with you regarding the Lee collet crimp die. They are an essential to accurate cast loads in my opinion. The best reloading tool since the O-press.

I too set the bullet seating depth a mite long in my .30-06 cast loads. Just by touching the rifling group averages shrank ~30% in my old Springfield 03A3. That's a big improvement in my estimation.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks for all the responses everyone. I ordered the Lee Load Manual and a set of Lee deluxe dies which comes with the crimp die. I am going to give H-4831 a  try as a friend of mine has a half pound that he doesn’t use.
 

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Big Buck,

My hands down favorite powder for full power .30-30's with 170 grain and heavier bullets is H414 or W760. They are one and the same. I have found nothing better for accuracy, both with Jacketed but especially with cast gas checked bullets in 22 years of .30-30 loading and shooting.

It's a slow burner and thus, is kinder and gentler to g.c. cast bullets. Hodgdon's manual No. 26 shows a maximum of 37 grs. giving 2,259 fps. at 37,400 lbs. of pressure with 170 gr. jacketed bullets.

This is a capacity load and you will need to tap the case gently on the bench a few times to settle the powder or dump it slowly from the pan. I would recommend that you back off two grains to start. Use WLR primers.

I have also used 35 grs. of H4831 with 175 gr. g.c. cast bullets and it does very well, turning up 1850 f.p.s. in a 26" .30-30 barrel.

Good luck,

John
 
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