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I am reloading Remington 222 Mag. In the past I have used CCI regular primers(#400) Should I be using CCI (#450) primers instead. So far everything seems to function OK.

Thanks
 

Elk Whisperer (Super Moderator)
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I'd stick with what you're using now, no need to change teams midstream. Changing to Magnum primers would require starting over with load development, something I really don't like doing 馃檮

I envy you with your 222 Remington Magnum. 馃憤

RJ
 

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Sounds like your ok.. but the rule is to back of your load one grain. . .some say half grain. . When going from standard primers to magnum primers.. but I do agree with Recoil junky .. and maybe I shouldn't use the word rule .. but the half grain has worked for me many times ..
 

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You should use what your load manual used in the development of the load(s) you鈥檙e loading.

Std vs magnum primers has been covered at least dozens of times here, and probably hundreds. The answer is involved and detailed, and anyone who tells you otherwise is ignorant.

A practical response, though, is in my first paragraph, plus this:
鈥擠o you have a problem you鈥檙e trying to solve? If not, don鈥檛 muddy the water for yourself.
鈥擨f you switch from standard to magnum primers, back the charge down 5-10% and re-work them.
鈥擨f you鈥檙e simply curious about what the change will do in your rifle, try it and see.
 

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Probably should ask a question like this before you do it. I've switched out mag primers with standard before and no problem. Start low and work back up. What does the data your using call for? I'd probably stick with them unless I simply couldn't get them. As far as brand goes, what ever brand I first work up a load with is where I stay.
 

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Note: any cartridge with the word 鈥渕agnum鈥 attached doesn鈥檛 necessarily require a magnum primer. The word 鈥渕agnum鈥 when attached to a cartridge is simply meant to imply that the cartridge is somehow more powerful (than what? No one knows). Magnum primers are designed to ignite certain types of powders and have nothing to do with cartridges called 鈥渕agnum鈥. It just depends on what powder you鈥檙e using to load with. Read your loading manual and follow those directions.
 

The Shadow (Moderator)
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Magnum primers are designed to ignite certain types of powders
Certain types? No.
Certain very old tech powders, yes.
 

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Common question but usually because you cannot get one type of primer or the other. Agree 100% to follow the reloading manual if you have both types of primer. If you need to substitute back off on powder( 10% I have read) .
 

The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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I believe the word "magnum" may have been originally applied to larger bottles of alcohol; and as we all know, the more you drink, the more powerful you get ;) :eek: :p

So that settles the argument!

Anyway if I couldn't get the primers I wanted, a 5% reduction in load would seem prudent to test with another brand/type/flavor......
 
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Certain types? No.
Certain very old tech powders, yes.
Old tech or what ever you want to call it is still a type of powder. Examples are WW296 or H110. These are still common powders used today and probably will be used for many more years. Semantics aside, the OP needs to understand the purpose of magnum primers and that wasn鈥檛 being conveyed to him very well. Magnum powders have a purpose and that鈥檚 to ignite certain types (old tech or otherwise) in a manner to give good ignition to the powder. I鈥檓 not criticizing any ones comment, but the question wasn鈥檛 answered.
 

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After 46 yrs. Of reloading and working with 4 different wildcat cartridges I've discovered that changing brass manufacturers make far more changes in pressure then changing primers. . Like using Fc brass then putting the same load in lc brass will have a huge efect on pressures.. same problem with Hornady brass and then putting that same load in perfecta brass it showes up in velocity on the croni and visually inspecting the primers it's easy to see. . And the primer shortage has definitely changed things .. we're all going to be using what we can find sooner or later. . I've got a feeling this want end .. so get what you can and make the most of it .. I've even bought round balls for my 44 rifle and for the 45-70 .. Yea I'm concerned. . With all that said I do completely agree with sticking to the loading manual. .if at all possible. .
 

The Shadow (Moderator)
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Old tech or what ever you want to call it is still a type of powder. Examples are WW296 or H110. These are still common powders used today and probably will be used for many more years. Semantics aside, the OP needs to understand the purpose of magnum primers and that wasn鈥檛 being conveyed to him very well. Magnum powders have a purpose and that鈥檚 to ignite certain types (old tech or otherwise) in a manner to give good ignition to the powder. I鈥檓 not criticizing any ones comment, but the question wasn鈥檛 answered.
I agree it wasn't simply answered, because there isn't a simple answer.
Mag primers weren't developed in the 1930's when the original tech powder was, and not even shortly afterwards. Some primers are interchangable between mag/non-mag; CCI being one example.

We don't know, what we don't know.
If I asked how a watch works, the only simple, short answer is: Entropy.

But does entropy actually address the question and explain the intricacies of the question? No.

Cheers
 
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I've been loading for the 222 magnum since the 1970's. . .tried about every combo of bullet, powder, and primers over the years. My opinion is that magnum primers are not needed in the 222 magnum - standard primers work fine.
You can use magnum primers if you want to, just reduce the load a grain or 2 and work up again.
 

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My experience is that blc2 gives much more uniform performance across temperature range with a Mag primer. I will only load blc2 with a mag primer because of cold weather reliability. I think there is one other member who has conducted serious testing, who believes H335 benefits from a mag primer.
 

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I have never found acceptable performance in any of the cartridges I load using magnum primers. Most cartridges, even if they have the word "magnum" in their name, don't need or benefit from using magnum primers. The old 'theory' was that magnum primers were beneficial when shooting slow-burning ball powders, and if you look in old reloading manuals from the 1960's and 1970's, magnum primers were typically specified for ball powder loads. I could never verify that 'theory' in the load testing I've done (ball powders never shot well for me regardless of what primer I used). I read somewhere that magnum primers were generally only required for cartridges that required 60 gr. or more of powder, but the 222 Remington Magnum the OP asked about requires less than 30 gr. of powder.
 

The Shadow (Moderator)
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+1
Exactly, my point about Roy and the creation of mag primers.
 
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It's been an evolution. The word "magnum" is borrowed from wine bottles for which about 750 ml (0.75 l) were standard size and the 1500 ml (1.5 l) bottles were called magnums starting sometime in the 1700s. The idea is the cartridge case is the "bottle" and if it is larger than a common standard case in that caliber (more powder capacity) it gets called magnum. A primer not only has to ignite the powder in a cartridge, but it also has to establish the initial pressure the powder starts burning in. The thinking was that a primer that could pressurize the larger total space in a magnum cartridge case was needed, so the magnum primer was created to produce more pressurizing gas than the standard primer does. The military also likes them because their ammunition requirements include functioning down to -65掳F, where the powder has a bit less enthusiasm for ignition.

In 1989, this changed a bit. CCI, noticed it was harder to get regular ignition from the WWII-era spherical powder formulations. They figured they needed not only higher initiation pressure but a hotter spark as well. So they added metals to their magnum priming mix to throw a shower of hot sparks out to help burn into the heavy deterrent layer in these old powders. That is where the idea you should use magnum primers for spherical powders came from. Since then, things have changed again, and now most standard, as well as magnum primers made in the US, all throw the hot spark shower, so you no longer need to buy a CCI magnum primer to get the hot spark. A hard-to-ignite powder may still appreciate the extra pressure, but also may not. You have to try it to find out with your powder. The Russian primers do not have a spark shower and some other foreign makes do not. But if you are using U.S.-made primers, you are really back to the pre-1989 situation of only being concerned about how much ignition pressure is needed in the case when you chose a standard or a magnum primer. More pressure helps either for a large magnum case or sometimes with the larger standards, like 30-06, when the load doesn't fill the case well.

I usually compare standard and magnum primers by the velocity consistency each produces at the velocity I am determining the powder charge for. A year or two back, a fellow with an M1 Garand was having trouble getting its groups where he thought they should be. He was shooting typical "Garand" loads that leave a fair amount of empty space in the case, so I suggested he go to the CCI #34 primers that are both magnum and meet military sensitivity specs. He did and reported he was finally able to get his groups down under 2 moa using those and that his velocity had smaller SD, so he was happy.

So magnum primers are really just another variable you can try in your load workups. Larger capacity cases or those with a lot of empty space may benefit. But unless you go to foreign primer brands, I don't think even BL-C(2) (canister-grade WC846, first developed for loading 303 British for our allies in WWII) will give you ignition problems with standard primers unless a lot of empty space is present.
 
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My opinions regarding BLC2 were formed in the mid 1980s, and based on an old stash of primers. I need to do some more testing if I can find a cold spell in January, and update my notes.
 
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