In Lymans reloading book it says that the max pressure of the 45-70 is around 27,000 and in reality its somewhere around 40,000 in the 1895. So how many grains of a certain powder would have to get crammed in there to get 40,000? and why dont the bullet weights go more than 405?
Strenght of the 1895
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1895's are pretty strong, buffalo bore loads their ammo close to 40,000 and so does grizzly. I think they are in the 30,000's. They push 400 grain bullets at 2000 - 2050 feet per second from a 22" barrel. Just make sure the bullet you are loading has a wide meplat so you don't get a mag tube detonation from the fierce recoil, these things kick like african safari guns
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Different reloading manuals (Companies) recommend different maximum loadings for the Marlin 1895. Hodgdon loads are the highest pressure I have seen for the 1895. Hodgdon (and I am sure others) also has loads for heavier bullets.
The Marlin kicks pretty hard with the full power loads, however.
Andy
The Marlin kicks pretty hard with the full power loads, however.
Andy
To add to what Andy said, some manuals will have loads specifically for the Trapdoor Springfield rifles, a heavier load for the 1886 Winchesters and 1895 Marlins and the hottest loads for the #1 Ruger rifles.
I load a 320 grain bullet to 1600 FPS and while recoil isn't bad at all, the 1895 Marlin is light enough to let you know it's gone off.
I load a 320 grain bullet to 1600 FPS and while recoil isn't bad at all, the 1895 Marlin is light enough to let you know it's gone off.
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Heavy bullets are long and must be seated deeper to keep the COAL short enough to allow the cartridge to work through the magazine. Longer bullets, seated deeper, limit the powder capacity. 400 or so grains is a good balance point.
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Will hit the nail on the head. going up to a 500 grain bullet with the short case of the .45-70 will slow down the velocity and to some people, this may be a disadvantage, to others who plan on shooting inside of 100 yards at big game it may be an advantage because they don't have to buy a whole nother gun.
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Those big bullets will sure penetrate at low velocities. As a kid I sure got pushed around a bit by the Lyman 457406, a 475-grain
Gc bullet. I have shot a few deer with this bullet and while it does the job, the 330-grain 457122HP puts our little deer on the ground more decisively - quicker.
The 457406 is a quite accurate bullet in the Ruger No. 1 and the No. 3. The No. 3 with big loads will push you around terribly with its carbine butt plate.
Gc bullet. I have shot a few deer with this bullet and while it does the job, the 330-grain 457122HP puts our little deer on the ground more decisively - quicker.
The 457406 is a quite accurate bullet in the Ruger No. 1 and the No. 3. The No. 3 with big loads will push you around terribly with its carbine butt plate.
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Somehow, a buddy that likes to hunt, but shoot, not so much, talked me into working up a load for the Hornady 350gr Interlok in his brandy new Guide Gun.
As the gun and brass were new, I started at 3gr below max, with H4198. That WAS the load.
I'm sure it would kill almost anything/everything in North America. And a fair percent of the people shooting it.
The 1895 GG is a REAL MAN's gun.
BTW, he didn't ask if there was any room for improvement.
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The pictures and reports I have seen & read on the Marlin .45-70 indicate that the weak point is the barrel shank , not the bolt lockup . Of course , if the barrel gives way , it takes the front , top of the receiver with it . Not a good prospect .
The question is , how much bullet and how fast do you need it to be traveling , to kill what you intend to hunt ?
Recoil bets to be considerable with the HOT loads . Do you need to stress the rifle and yourself , just to be able to say you shoot such a HOT load ?
Not me . As I get older , I am more of a wimp , when it comes to recoil .
Remember , this was originally a Black Powder caliber and a lot of big game was taken with it at BP velocities ?
As for heavier than 405 grain , why do you need it ?
God bless
Wyr
God bless
Wyr
The question is , how much bullet and how fast do you need it to be traveling , to kill what you intend to hunt ?
Recoil bets to be considerable with the HOT loads . Do you need to stress the rifle and yourself , just to be able to say you shoot such a HOT load ?
Not me . As I get older , I am more of a wimp , when it comes to recoil .
Remember , this was originally a Black Powder caliber and a lot of big game was taken with it at BP velocities ?
As for heavier than 405 grain , why do you need it ?
God bless
Wyr
God bless
Wyr
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That is the load I use in mine from time to time. When I'm hunting game heavier than whitetails I switch from Rem 300gr JHP over to the Hornady 350gr RN lit off with H4198 in the same neighborhood you are talking about.Somehow, a buddy that likes to hunt, but shoot, not so much, talked me into working up a load for the Hornady 350gr Interlok in his brandy new Guide Gun.
As the gun and brass were new, I started at 3gr below max, with H4198. That WAS the load.
I'm sure it would kill almost anything/everything in North America. And a fair percent of the people shooting it.
The 1895 GG is a REAL MAN's gun.
BTW, he didn't ask if there was any room for improvement.
Tremendous load, really. Not the hottest or hardest kicking but it sure lets you know what's up front. I call those my headache rounds. If you shoot them off the bench you'll want to limit your shots to a dozen or so at the most.
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Wyrtwister; You are correct about the barrel/reciever juncture being the weak point on the 45-70 Marlin. Thats why sticking to standard top end loads (for the Marlin) is a wise choice. Put a 45-70 in a strong single shot or bolt and its a whole nuther ballgame....
As most of you know, I modify 444 Marlin leverguns for more performance, and this issue with the 45-70 has kept me from working on them....other than action/cycling improvements. Mic McPherson modifies the threads on his 45-70's to accept heavier loadings, and that is always an option for those seeking to hurt themselves even more. Another option is the Winchester in 45-70....it can take pressures above what the Marlin action can handle, and is a heavier rifle that reduces some of the felt recoil.
In my modified 444 Marlin (the Peashooter @ 6.2 pounds) with my top loaded 325 LCMNGC Beartooth, the recoil factor is... 46 ft lbs at 22 fps. With my Safari Grade modification in a 7 1/2 pound rifle, the recoil factor will be about the same with a 405 grain Beartooth bullet at 2150 fps. In a full sized 45-70 Marlin (@ 7 1/2 pounds), the recoil factor of a 500 grain bullet at 1650 fps... is 39 ft lbs at 18 fps. Believe me, I feel your pain when it comes to recoil!
Perforator is right on by tailoring loads to suit the purpose. In my 444 Peashooter, I also use a 300 grain bullet at 1850 for deer and it works very well. For anything larger I can increase bullet weight and velocity. up to the top load with a 325 LCMNGC Beartooth bullet which produces 2263 fps and 3600+ ft lbs of energy. Utilizing the 45-70 with the best load for the job gives enough power to take care of business, and saves the shooter the abusive effects from recoil with loadings that are just not needed. IMHO shooting the hottest loads that you can in a 45-70 (or, any other caliber for that matter) when they are really not needed, only serves as a waste of reloading money, rifle longevity, and shoulder meat!!!! If you load for what you hunt, in the long run you will be a much happier, and less abused shooter. I always have a number of "specific purpose" loads worked up for each rifle or handgun that I use, but only use what is necessary to do the deed.
The nice thing about the 444, 45-70, and 450 Marlins is the versatility that they offer, and its a shame not to take advantage of that. To have one gun that can be utilized on any medium to large game animal by varying the load (and comfort level of the shooter) is a real plus in owning one of these big bores.
As most of you know, I modify 444 Marlin leverguns for more performance, and this issue with the 45-70 has kept me from working on them....other than action/cycling improvements. Mic McPherson modifies the threads on his 45-70's to accept heavier loadings, and that is always an option for those seeking to hurt themselves even more. Another option is the Winchester in 45-70....it can take pressures above what the Marlin action can handle, and is a heavier rifle that reduces some of the felt recoil.
In my modified 444 Marlin (the Peashooter @ 6.2 pounds) with my top loaded 325 LCMNGC Beartooth, the recoil factor is... 46 ft lbs at 22 fps. With my Safari Grade modification in a 7 1/2 pound rifle, the recoil factor will be about the same with a 405 grain Beartooth bullet at 2150 fps. In a full sized 45-70 Marlin (@ 7 1/2 pounds), the recoil factor of a 500 grain bullet at 1650 fps... is 39 ft lbs at 18 fps. Believe me, I feel your pain when it comes to recoil!
Perforator is right on by tailoring loads to suit the purpose. In my 444 Peashooter, I also use a 300 grain bullet at 1850 for deer and it works very well. For anything larger I can increase bullet weight and velocity. up to the top load with a 325 LCMNGC Beartooth bullet which produces 2263 fps and 3600+ ft lbs of energy. Utilizing the 45-70 with the best load for the job gives enough power to take care of business, and saves the shooter the abusive effects from recoil with loadings that are just not needed. IMHO shooting the hottest loads that you can in a 45-70 (or, any other caliber for that matter) when they are really not needed, only serves as a waste of reloading money, rifle longevity, and shoulder meat!!!! If you load for what you hunt, in the long run you will be a much happier, and less abused shooter. I always have a number of "specific purpose" loads worked up for each rifle or handgun that I use, but only use what is necessary to do the deed.
The nice thing about the 444, 45-70, and 450 Marlins is the versatility that they offer, and its a shame not to take advantage of that. To have one gun that can be utilized on any medium to large game animal by varying the load (and comfort level of the shooter) is a real plus in owning one of these big bores.
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My understanding is the .450 Marlins ( which I do not own ) have a different thread cut on the barrel shank , which weakens it slightly less than the threads on the .45-70 ?
This is not a problem for the .30-30's because the walls of the barrel shank are thicker . I seem to remember the threads on it are the same as the threads on the .45-70 ?
God bless
Wyr
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Wyr; I believe you are correct on that. I just got a 35 XLR, and the meat around the chamber area is awesome....compared to my 444. The 45-70 is thinner in that area than the 444...the barrel O.D.'s are the same. Not sure about the threads on the 35 or 30-30.....maybe someone here has that info.
I believe that the magazine tube cut under the barrel/chamber is the thinnest part of the 95's barrel. I've seen one barrel cracked there, the gunsmith that showed it to me said he'd seen one other cracked in the same place. If they let go there, they will genarally take the barrel/front of the receiver with it from what I've seen.
One of the main differences between the Marlins and 1886 action is the magazine tube/barrel centerlines are farther apart on the 86, meaning there's much more metal on the underside of the barrel/chamber. One other factor between them is the 86 action is a fair bit longer, meaning if you like heavier bullets, there's more room for them withut crowding the powder space. One point to remember in these discusions, the 95 is a 336 action altered to work with the 45-70 round. They are good guns, and they work quite well, but just don't leave all that much metal under the chamber, or have much room for longer cartridge length.
One of the main differences between the Marlins and 1886 action is the magazine tube/barrel centerlines are farther apart on the 86, meaning there's much more metal on the underside of the barrel/chamber. One other factor between them is the 86 action is a fair bit longer, meaning if you like heavier bullets, there's more room for them withut crowding the powder space. One point to remember in these discusions, the 95 is a 336 action altered to work with the 45-70 round. They are good guns, and they work quite well, but just don't leave all that much metal under the chamber, or have much room for longer cartridge length.
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Strength of the 1895
Howdy,
I don't recall who sent the data to me, but it was for loading 500 grain bullets in my Marlin 1895. I did some research after reading what he sent me and found many loadings for the 1895 and that weight bullet. I found one that sounded like it should shoot w/o killing my shoulder that used IMR4198, using 32 grains of powder, that moved along at 1337. It's an RCBS bullet.
I just bought some 500 grain, FN bullets from Montana Precision Swaging and wanted to try them in my Marlin. Is that a mild enough load for this .458 bullet loaded to the same specs as the RCBS bullet?
I also ended up with some Barnes marked TSX Flat Base, .458 cal. -.458. I had ordered bullets for my Marlin and specified I wanted bullets for a Marlin 1895 in .45-70, and got these and got "stuck" with them. Needless to say after paying for them I now no longer visit that gun shop! They are 300 Grains. I've already Nixed the idea of shooting them in my Marlin because they are hollow points, but can I shoot them safely in my Falling Block Works single shot .45-70? If not I guess I'll send them to a friend in Alaska to use in his rifle made to shoot the 458 caliber round.
Loading lead bullets is rather new to me so your advice would be really appreciated!
Thanks,
longrangehunter
Howdy,
I don't recall who sent the data to me, but it was for loading 500 grain bullets in my Marlin 1895. I did some research after reading what he sent me and found many loadings for the 1895 and that weight bullet. I found one that sounded like it should shoot w/o killing my shoulder that used IMR4198, using 32 grains of powder, that moved along at 1337. It's an RCBS bullet.
I just bought some 500 grain, FN bullets from Montana Precision Swaging and wanted to try them in my Marlin. Is that a mild enough load for this .458 bullet loaded to the same specs as the RCBS bullet?
I also ended up with some Barnes marked TSX Flat Base, .458 cal. -.458. I had ordered bullets for my Marlin and specified I wanted bullets for a Marlin 1895 in .45-70, and got these and got "stuck" with them. Needless to say after paying for them I now no longer visit that gun shop! They are 300 Grains. I've already Nixed the idea of shooting them in my Marlin because they are hollow points, but can I shoot them safely in my Falling Block Works single shot .45-70? If not I guess I'll send them to a friend in Alaska to use in his rifle made to shoot the 458 caliber round.
Loading lead bullets is rather new to me so your advice would be really appreciated!
Thanks,
longrangehunter
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