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Discussion Starter #1
Does anyone have experience with the various survival 22's like the Springfield over/under with a 410 or the AR-7? I want a compact 22 that folds into the stock, preferably semi auto, but Im also interested in 22/410 combos. My interest is to find a 22 best suited to be folded into a backpack so that in case of emergency I have a rifle and 500 rounds of ammo.

originally I was going to purchase an over/under but I think I would be better off with a semi auto 22. Thoughts?
 

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Brother has an AR-7 that was made under Charter Arms ownership. While not something you'd compete with at Camp Perry, the gun displayed MOR (Minute Of Rabbit) capability. His rifle had a warning to only use standard velocity ammunition.
 

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Ruger makes a stainless??? mdl 1022 takedown that comes in a case that will hold 5 25 round mags, scope & more ammo & floats. The finish on the aluminum rec flakes pretty easy, but it works & won't break the bank. I kept the S&W 1522, but it took a while to choose due to the rugers smaller packability.
 

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It depends

I have an older Charter Arms AR-7 that I bought used some years ago for $99. The rifle functions well and as noted is pretty good out to 50 yards. It is not a target rifle, but does meet a number of requirements. All the best...
Gil
 

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Back packing is a little different, but I have used a few different approaches in terms of a survival rifle small enough to fit in the baggage compartment of a PA-12 (a lot smaller than the baggage area in a PA-18).



AR-7

I own an older Charter Arms version of the AR-7. It's picky about the ammo it shoots, the sights are primitive, accuracy is not stellar, and the barrel is a steel liner in an aluminum sleeve that is easily bent. On the plus side, it is lightweight, it all fits in the stock and it'll float if you drop it in water.





M6 Survival Rifle

The M6 comes in a few different variants. You can find them with Springfield labels and with CZ labels. The CZs use a trigger guard that limits the ability to fold it, but you can get a ball detent pin that allows you to remove the pin and easily take it down into two parts.

You can find them in:

.22 LR / .410
.22 Hornet / .410
.22 LR / .45 Colt; and
.22 Hornet / .45 Colt

The .45 Colt chambers in the M6 are long throated and will also shoot .410 sot gun shells - although the pattern is very poor in a rifled barrel.

I've found the .22LR barrel to be quite accurate in the two I have owned - on the order of 1" at 50 yards with good quality ammo. I've patterned the .410 barrel and it's good enough to take a bird out to about 15-20 yards, but starts opening up excessively after that. It's really more of an anti-snake device IMHO.

You can shoot .410 slugs in the as well, but the accuracy falls off badly after about 30 yards - and you're dealing with a slug that has the ballistics of a .380 ACP. Not all that impressive.

That's where the .45 Colt makes a great choice. A 255 gr bullet at 1100-1200 fps with decent accuracy out to 50 yards or so, makes a great medium size game getter.

The .22 Hornet was a disappointment for me in the M6. I love the .22 Hornet, it's one of the most inherently accurate rounds on the planet, and it'll take a deer out to 150-200 yards with good bullet placement. However "good bullet placement" is a near impossibility with the M6. You can add a weaver rail and a compact scope to improve the sights, but you cannot overcome the hideous accuracy. I noted the point of impact climb over 3" with each successive shot at 50 yards, making it a very time consuming process to zero the rifle, and then it is quite literally a one shot proposition if accuracy matters. To this day it is the only .22 Hornet rifle I ever got rid of.







9422

The 9422 and 9422M are superb carbines that will shoot 3"-4" groups at 100 yards with a tang sight installed. They also will take down into two parts without tools - if you get a saddle ring hammer screw for it. The downside is that these have gotten hard to find and they care expensive when you find them.

They were made in the 20" rifle version or the 16" Trapper version, in both .22 LR and .22 Magnum. Personally, I think a 16" trapper in .22 Magnum would be ideal for a take down survival rifle - if weight were not a major concern. But trapper models in .22 Magnum are comparatively rare.






Rossi Single shot or matched pair

The major pros are that they sell for under $150, they breakdown easily without tools and it's reasonably lightweight.

The major con is that they are not all that accurate. 4" at 50 yards is probably typical. You can improve that a bit with a better rear sight, but not much. I tried it with a scope, and that was totally not worth the effort and I compromised with a better rear sight.






AR-15, with or without a .22LR conversion kit

This was actual my preferred approach. I built an AR-15 using a slice side receiver and a pencil weight 16" barrel that weighs just 5.7 pounds empty.

It'll break down into two fairly short pieces and you can set it up as a dedicated .22 LR, as a dedicated .223 or as a .223 and carry the conversion kit. You can carry a lot of .22 LR for a given weight, and the report is comparatively soft, while .223 has a reasonable capability on medium sized game - at the expense of more weight and volume per round. I opted to carry both, setting it up a s .22 LR, and then adding the .223 bolt and a 30 round magazine or two of .223 ammo.







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If I were strictly back packing, I'd use the lightweight AR-15 and a .22 LR conversion unit with a 100 or so rounds of .22 LR. You could probably make it a little lighter with a composite lower receiver, but I like the durability of aluminum.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
A Survival .22 in the Air Force's book is for taking food for the pot, perhaps repelling a threatening wolf.
It's not an anti-personnel weapon.

So what kind of emergencies do you have in mind?
Simply a rifle to keep in a back pack or car to hunt for food or defend myself against wolves etc...
 

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Discussion Starter #9
My main issue is whether I should go for a semi auto or multi shot 22 rather than a single shot over under. This wouldn't be a primary gun for a bug out bag scenario, more for a hiking type situation where weight is an issue. Although I would keep it around with my emergency 3 day preps.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Ruger makes a stainless??? mdl 1022 takedown that comes in a case that will hold 5 25 round mags, scope & more ammo & floats. The finish on the aluminum rec flakes pretty easy, but it works & won't break the bank. I kept the S&W 1522, but it took a while to choose due to the rugers smaller packability.
I have a 10/22 but it's way to clunky for a long backpacking trip and handguns are legally tricky since I travel to different states for hiking and 4 wheeling so Im not always up on the laws. Whereas transporting a rifle not an issue.
 

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My experience with my charter Arms AR-7 is much better than most nay-sayers report. This is a little rifle some people love to hate. I replaced a couple of parts and threw out the magazines I was given with the rifle. Got new mags and, as long as I tighten the barrel every ten or twenty shots, all is well. I am not all that good with iron sights, but can keep shots within 2" at 25 yards, and for hunting or self defense that ought to do. Just don't expect it to be a target rifle. My $1,000 tricked-out 10-22 shoots MUCH better! Duh!

For your scenario I'd rather have a semi-auto.

Luisyamaha
 

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I think I'd go with the new take-down 10/22. That feature makes them so much easier to clean!
 

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.../
/... handguns are legally tricky since I travel to different states for hiking and 4 wheeling so Im not always up on the laws. Whereas transporting a rifle not an issue.
If you didn't live in MD, I'd suggest getting a handgun and a concealed carry permit.

For example, my MC permit is honored on all states except:

California, Connecticut, District of Columbia, Guam, Hawaii, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, New Jersey, New York, and Oregon.

An MD resident permit is honored in:

Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Maryland, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, and Wisconsin

But it's very hard to get a permit as MD is not a shall issue state.

You could get a non resident UT permit, and it would be honored in:

Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Delaware, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia, Wisconsin, and Wyoming.

Comparing the MD resident and UT non resident permit, the only states that an MD would give you over a UT permit is MD and MI.

Still, if the UT permit covers where you want to go, a handgun is hard to beat. A revolver is non controversial in states that allow concealed carry, and a handgun in .22LR, .22 Magnum, .32 H&R Mag, 327 Mag, or .38/.357 Mag would not be a bad choice.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
If you didn't live in MD, I'd suggest getting a handgun and a concealed carry permit.

For example, my MC permit is honored on all states except:

California, Connecticut, District of Columbia, Guam, Hawaii, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, New Jersey, New York, and Oregon.

An MD resident permit is honored in:

Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Maryland, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, and Wisconsin

But it's very hard to get a permit as MD is not a shall issue state.

You could get a non resident UT permit, and it would be honored in:

Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Delaware, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia, Wisconsin, and Wyoming.

Comparing the MD resident and UT non resident permit, the only states that an MD would give you over a UT permit is MD and MI.

Still, if the UT permit covers where you want to go, a handgun is hard to beat. A revolver is non controversial in states that allow concealed carry, and a handgun in .22LR, .22 Magnum, .32 H&R Mag, 327 Mag, or .38/.357 Mag would not be a bad choice.
Even though a handgun is best for travel protection I'm still interested in a survival 22 or 22/410 because I can carry a thousand rounds on me without taking up much space. Thanks for the laws though! I have a 9mm berreta but I was grandfathered and need a new permit to purchase another. Plus I cannot carry, concealed or otherwise in the surrounding states even if I had a concealed carry permit in Maryland. Most of my trips are to West Virginia.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I think I'd go with the new take-down 10/22. That feature makes them so much easier to clean!
I was unaware of this. From the little searching I have done it doesn't seem like there would be a kit to convert my stock 10/22. Do you know of any kits that would convert my Ruger into something collapsible and/or a self contained kit that could fit in a small space?
 

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Discussion Starter #17
My experience with my charter Arms AR-7 is much better than most nay-sayers report. This is a little rifle some people love to hate. I replaced a couple of parts and threw out the magazines I was given with the rifle. Got new mags and, as long as I tighten the barrel every ten or twenty shots, all is well. I am not all that good with iron sights, but can keep shots within 2" at 25 yards, and for hunting or self defense that ought to do. Just don't expect it to be a target rifle. My $1,000 tricked-out 10-22 shoots MUCH better! Duh!

For your scenario I'd rather have a semi-auto.

Luisyamaha
That's the way Im leaning. Although the Springfield over under 22/410 seems to be more versatile especially since a 410 slugs can bring down just about any game. But being single shot I have serious reservation. It seems like a 10 shot semi auto 22 would prove more useful even though big game would be out of the question it would serve well for self defense and far better for small game in a survival scenario.
 

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reread the part about TAKEDOWN.

I have a 10/22 but it's way to clunky for a long backpacking trip and handguns are legally tricky since I travel to different states for hiking and 4 wheeling so Im not always up on the laws. Whereas transporting a rifle not an issue.
It breaks down/re assembles in seconds without tools, & stows in a VERY PACKABLE case that floats. It is NOTHING LIKE the old 1022's, in terms of wt & packability. I own no stock in Ruger inc.
 

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I can't think of a better survival rifle than my Remington Nylon 66. Weighs next to nothing, semi-auto, accurate and about as durable as a gun can get.

 
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