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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello. I was thinking about making a big bore straight walled wildcat. I don't like the idea of head spacing off of the case mouth. So I got to thinking and a belt seems like it could head space it well. Is the any way to swage a belt on to a cartridge? I'd start with a belted cartridge but I can't find one small enough for what I want. Smallest I could find is the 7mm rem mag.
 

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Yes, This one made from a 30-06 to form a 6mm Ackley Belted Express.

There is also the 224 Weatherby and the 240 Apex.

Shown is L to R-- 35 Whelen, 240 Apex, 6mm Ackley Belted Express.

The form dies for the Ackley was made from hardware store grade 5 7/8-14 all-thread. The first die is radiused at the mouth and 'iron's the sides down and forms a rough belt without a sharp face. The second die sharpens the front of the belt. This particular cartridge was made for a nice custom rifle chambered for the odd Ackley cartridge. The headspace of the rifle was .233" instead of the 'standard' .220 so the cartridges were made to match.
 

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The 240 Weatherby magnum as I recall is a necked down 30-06 with a belt added. It would be easier to neck it back up than to swag a belt, a process that might weaken the case.
 

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Correct on the .240 Weatherby. I know RCBS has dies for a 375/240 Weatherby because one of the instructors at gunsmiths school built one and bought dies for it in 1976.
 

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My curiousity is aroused. Does the swedging die have an internal mandrel? Is the belt formed from displaced material from the web?
 

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MonteF--

(My) die is made from a section of all thread about an inch and a half long. The center is drilled about the neck diameter (of an '06) plus .020.
The 30-06 chambering reamer is run in (Because it had the proper body taper, you can use anything) until the entry of the die measures about .460 and then a recess bored about .200 deep with a short, tapered bottom (60 deg x .010) . Polish that taper very well and heat-treat (Grade 5 bolts can be used as quenched in oil, no draw). Polish off the scale, lube a case and run it all the way in. The die simply shrinks the case above the belt and pushes brass down and outward. The final die is the same thing but with a sharp step (.003 radius) that is also polished and the entry to the die should be smaller.
Shoot for .010 steps between the rim (.470), the belt (.460) and the body of the case. (.450). You can set headspace to anything you like, it's your case. ;)

The case is an odd looking thing with the shoulder in the wrong place and way too long because all the two dies did was make the base nearly the same diameter of the shoulder. The remaining forming is done with a FL die made for the caliber, or with a home-made reamer for pure wildcats.
Trim the case to length and form in one pass on most calibers. Drill bushings can be used in home-made dies to form necks or dies can be made and case-hardened for use. I've heard it said dies don't even have to be hardened but I've never tried it.

Study TAPERS!! That is the key to understanding dies and resizing and accurate locations of linear components. TAPERS are the key! Cartridge case have two of them to deal with but you don't have to make them at the same time.

No internal mandrel until you get ready to turn the necks, then a simple sizing plug.

One of my students built a 'belted 22-250 just for grins. Cute little thing!
 

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Thanks Jack. You did a great job describing the process and I understand it now!
 

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BTW, Bcs1996 --- You might want to check out the 450 Marlin.
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thank you Everyone. I saw the .450 bushmaster and thought it looked cool, but it's a tad bigger than I'd like. So I was thinking something smaller like a straighted walled .375 would be nice. Hopefully I could even get it to double stack in a mag. I was starting to think the 6.8 spc might be a good base for it. I think I might be able to squeeze a shoulder out of it.
 

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You've probably heard the old saw, "Nothing new under the sun". Check out the 400/375 Nitro Express H&H. It's just about exactly what you want. Belted, .466 base, 2.47 case length, long neck with a small shoulder. The information is in Cartridges of the World, 3rd edition.

George Nonte in "Cartridge Conversions" explains how to make cases by belting 30-06 brass. You might want your rifle to shoot .375 bullets instead of .371. ;)
 

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A belted round in a double-stack mag, so you're talking about trying to get this to run in an AR.

Luck to ya. :)
 
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so you're talking about trying to get this to run in an AR.(?)
SURELY not!
 

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Hello. I was thinking about making a big bore straight walled wildcat. I don't like the idea of head spacing off of the case mouth. So I got to thinking and a belt seems like it could head space it well. Is the any way to swage a belt on to a cartridge? I'd start with a belted cartridge but I can't find one small enough for what I want. Smallest I could find is the 7mm rem mag.
***************************************************************************************
You don't have to be crazy to take on a project like this, but it helps.
 

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You don't have to be crazy to take on a project like this, but it helps.
Some say it's an essential element.
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
If I can I'll stick it in a piston ar. Good think I'm at least a bit crazy, probably more. Why not JBelk?
 

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I don't work on lumpy guns and don't know anything about them but love wildcats.
 

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I built a .357 Super Maximum based on a .223/5.56 case. Straightwall headspacing on the mouth. Almost everyone said don't do it....nothing but problems!
It's been done a year now on an AR platform. Cycles well, little recoil and MOA to 150 yards. Don't be afraid to make your wildcat on a case mouth headspace ctge
 

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Read through the annals of cartridge development and look at all of the high-pressure, straight-walled cartridges that headspace on the case mouth in semi-auto rifles or carbines.

The US 30 Carbine is it, basically. There are numerous and sundry reasons for that, not the least of which is you make the case length absolutely critical, because headspace is predicated on it. What do you do with a piece of brass that is just a few thousandths too short, creating excessive headspace? Do you fire it, risking life and limb, or do you toss that particular piece of brass?

Some things do not exist, and with very good reason. Before you contemplate creating a cartridge, ask yourself why someone else hasn't already done so, or if they have, why it failed to become popular. There are usually excellent reasons and a little investigation will make them apparent to you...before spending thousands of dollars to find out. :)
 

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I know lots of guys with swag on their belts!

And quite a few with lots of bling! :D

Sorry, guys, I just couldn't resist! :eek:
 
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