[Buzzard1]

Hello folks,

Need some ideas on taming the recoil on SRH 454 Casull.

I believe I was lucky when I won this pisol and a Ruger SS .357 in a raffle.

Anyway, I read a few articles on the subject pistol, read a few more, and then 9 months after recieving them I went to the range and shot a half box of Corbon and Winchester factory loads for thin skinned/whitetail loads.

Since then, I have shot only .45 long colts in it and my other pistols to work out the flinch.

I never thought after the variety and type of weapons I have been exposed to after more that twenty years of military service and growing up around weapons my whole life that I would develop a flinch.

I am considering changing the factory grips, purchasing a shooting glove, and adding a scope.

If I am able to tame it to the point of consistent accuracy I would use it for my return to pistol hunting whitetails and hogs.

I doubt that I would ever hunt bear,elk, or other large game with it.

I look forward to the insight from ya'll.

 

[leadbutt]

Buzz,all that your thinking of will help some, your adding weight.You didn't say or not but if you hand load start there and work your way up to the full power loads.I have never like the grips on the Ruger pistol and change them out as soon as I get them.

 

[MikeG]

Buzz, as heavy as a Super Redhawk is, if the .454 gave you a bad flinch, you may be at the limit of your recoil tolerance.

Personally I'm not real sure how people shoot a .454 in anything, more than once, anyway. The .44s and .45s are fine for me, not really interested in going further! Good enough for what walks in TX anyway.

I would suggest a heck of a bunch of practice. .45 Colt factory loads are a real good start, then you need something in between. Some of the 30,000CUP .45 Colt loads would be a good intermediate step. If you don't reload then it would probably be a good hobby to take up, considering the cost of factory .454 ammo.

Double-hearing protection (plugs & muffs) helps with the really loud cartridges like the .454.

Did you try different bullet weights in the .454 ammo? What did you shoot in it anyway?

Gloves help a lot. When I started working on heavier .44 / .45 loads, an old weightlifting glove made the job easier.

By the way the 30,000CUP .45 Colt loads are good performers on deer & hogs. I put a 335gr. cast bullet through a hog, lengthwise, at a velocity of only a little over 1,000fps once. Nothing wrong with more performance if you can handle it, though.

 

[Gunnut45/454]

Buzzard1
Welcome to the world of the 454!!! I guess when you shot it for the first time, it got your attention!!! I love my 454 SRH, but the factory stuff will ruin you in a hurry if your not used to it.-They are a little on the hot side -Hated the Hornaday rounds, always stuck in the cylinder etc. Started reloading for mine and it a totally different gun!! It's the only way your going to get used to it. Hey atleast you didn't say you split your skull with it-many people have- front site dents are common with green horn 454 shootists!

 

[Alk8944]

Buzzard 1

Just for a thought, on some other forum, or Sixgunner, John Linebaugh, builder of the .475 and .500 Linebaugh revolvers, indicated what he and his wife use for Whitetail/Mule Deer Hunting. To probably everyones great surprise it is a .45 Colt loaded with a 250 grain bullet (LBT or Keith, I don't recall) at a velocity of 900 f.p.s. This is for any practical purpose equivalent to the original military Black Powder load which does from 850-920 f.p.s. with the same nominal bullet weight. He says they have never lost a deer in several years of using this load!

His load wouldn't be legal here in Utah since we have a 500 FPE @ muzzle minimum for Deer, Black Bear, and Antelope and 500 FPE @ 100 yds for Elk, Moose, Buffalo, etc. You might face the same or similar restrictions. It is hard to argue with the success of a man of the reputation of John Linebaugh!!

Basically, my suggestion would be to load only heavy enough to make your states energy requirements as a minimum and only increase your loads from this point until the recoil becomes as much as you would be comfortable with. Even though I, like many on this forum, shoot large caliber revolvers loaded quite heavy there is a certain amount of "Macho" in this, if only for ourselves. They aren't necessary for successfully taking large game if you are able to approach an animal to a reasonable range and place your bullet well you don't really need a gun that hurts youmore than you are willing to accept just because it seems to be the current fad.

 

[Buzzard1]

Gentlemen,

I really appreciate the replies. I reckon somemore info on my part would aide in the discussion.

So far the factory loads fired through this particular .454 Casull SRH are as follows:

1. Winchester Partition Gold- 260 Grain. SPG454
2. Corbon-260 Grain
3. Black Hills .45 LC 250 Gr. RNFP

(Those .45 LC loads are extremely pleasant and mild in this pistol.)

I have for the last year been acquiring equipment to reload.
This has been a slow process on my part. I now have a place to reload were it is unlikely that I would be disturbed by phone, wife, or children. It is also seperate from the house.

I have not purchased any dies, nor any reloading components. This is based on my judgement that I have been reading several reloading manuals for beginners. (It was 25 + years ago the last time and it was with a Lee Loader). (Simple, portable, and inexpensive.) When I am confident in my plan and execution I will purchase the dies and components a little at time.

At first, my list was to purchase dies for my .30-06 and my sons .243.

Then follow with the .223, .45 ACP, .357/.38, and then the Casull. But, as pointed out the price of the Casull ammo is a little steep. With this in mind and working up a single load for it, A strong weapon, and some careful thought maybe what this old soldier needs to be successful and enjoy reloading. Tanks and Arty!!! Gentlemen.

 

[Gunnut45/454]

Alk8944
Good point about state regs! NY was like that, VA had this Reg as well- with the big caviat that it had to be Factory Ammo which pissed me off because at that time no one made Factory stuff in .45 LC to meet the standard. Now a days that wouldn't be a problem with Corbon/Buf Bore Ammo.

Thats the advantage with the 454 - everything for it has plenty of energy to spare. Even the litest factory round has well over 1000 ft-lbs ME.

Agreed Reloading is the only way to go with 454-unless you have deep pockets- being in Mil thats not an option for me -Reload-Reload!!!

 

[Old Jim]

A friend has a 454 in a Ported Taurus. He shoots five shots in each range session and hopes that the last three are on the paper. He plans to sell it to the first sucker that comes along. His target gun is the Smith in 45 ACP. He is having trouble with it now because of the 454 flinch that he has developed.

Not for me!!

My 2¢

 

[Jack K]

Buzzard 1,
I shoot a redhawk in .475 linebaugh and with full power loads it can get your atten. When I change to Herrett grips the Jorden Trooper style it made a complete change in the gun. The grips are not cheap but worth every penny. You said about adding a scope and it also helped on a 5 shot .45 that I had. The scope also helped. By adding weight. It also helped to find the best load and quite suprising how accurate the pistol shot. A scope works good in the field. Never start out with full loads you should work up to the heavy stuff.
Hope this helps. Good shooting.

Jack K.

 

[loader]

Buzzard 1 -

I shoot the same revolver, and had the same problem, but tamed it with handloads. The key is to move away from the slow powders that fill the case like W296, H110 and Lil'gun and to go to a faster powder that will give you good power with heavy bullets.

I arrived at Longshot powder with the Cast Performance 360 gr lead GCs and do 1070, 1112, 1177 and 1222 fps with 12, 13, 14 and 15 grains, respectively. I like the 14 gr load the best, as it is comfortable to shoot, accurate and powerful. It gives you 1100 FPE and will penetrate anything with hair on it end to end. Recoil drops 49%.

I also use Longshot with black powder sabots and 180 gr .40 cal Speer Gold Dots on an experimental basis, and get 1800 fps with 20 grs. These give 1300 FPE and duplicate the black powder rifle loads out there. Recoil is reduced by 63% and it is very accurate. I get the same results with lead .40 cal 180s. In theory, you can get this velocity with a 44 Mag and a 180 grain bullet, but you need more than twice as much powder and get more recoil and muzzle blast. In addition, the .40 cal 180s perform better because of higher sectional density and BC.

Keep the 454, it has a lot of unrealized potential when you start handloading.

 

[MikeG]

The sabot experiment sounds interesting. Any problems with bullets (sabots) jumping crimp? How do you crimp them anyway?

 

[loader]

MikeG -

I use just a light crimp right into the soft body of the sabot, but have not established that this is even required. Sabots are relatively soft, so don't use a big crimp.

Sabots also take up a bit of extra space in the case, so be very cautious using loading data. Double check the throat of your cylinder chambers, and seat the sabots so that the petals enter the throat. The seating process may make them flair slightly, so experiment with depth until they push right into the chambers, entering the throat by at least 0.1 inch. Never use 45 Colt cases for this in the 454, as it is possible to seat a sabot against the front of the chamber instead of entering the throat. Overly deep seating with the Casull cases can do the same thing.

Work up loads carefully, and keep good records. The sabots introduce an extra variable that makes seating depth and crimping a dominant variable in the pressure department. A chronograph is essential, in my opinion.

Start with a very clean bbl, and you should not have a fouling problem.

 

[jdt634]

Buzzard 1
Pay attention to what loader says I have come the same route. When I purchased my FA 454 more tha 10 yrs ago I was a seasoned 44 mag shooter, the first box of 260g FA factorys almost broke my wrist (at 2000fps) and made me cry. After reloading and going to a 300 grain (xtp) bullet over 30g of h110 the beast became much easier to shoot the gun rolls in your hand instead of recoiling straight back. By the way this is still a 1600 fps+ load. Now I have gone to heavy cast bullets in the 1100 to 1300 fps range and the gun doesn't kick much worse than my 44 S/W mountain gun. I have just started to work with longshot powder and can't wait to try some of Loaders recommended loads. I would also agree with what has been stated about giving the gun a chance it has all the potential in the world its the load used to judge all the rest.

 

[Rmouleart]

The 454 Casull was not designed to be tamed, if you want tame shoot 45lc in your 454 Casull, The 454 Casull was designed to be stout and heavy loaded round, WW296 & H110 work the best for this cal, Dick Casull created this cal due to the 45LC could not be loaded as hot as he wanted with out case problems(bulge)(cracks)(pushed out primers), so in tern he created the 454 Casull a LC on steroids case walls thicker and the case is 5000 longer to accomadate more powder 454 has 75% more recoil energy than the 44 mag, I notice reloading and shooting factory loads, the hotter loads work the best for accuracy.
I shot a few boxes of win 45LC out of the 454 SuperRedHawk once, they were like shooting a capgun compared to the 454 Casull and there grouping was poor, so if you need a moderate load this will work for ya, If you try to down load the 454 Casull your results will not be good,accuracy will diminish greatly, This is a hard hitting handgun on both ends that uses heavy bullets like the XTP or Goldot 300 gr, I never could understand someone wanting to shoot moderate loads out of a kickass handgun like a 454, thats like saying I want to shoot moderate loads out of my 300H&H, and what do you call moderate, the starting load using H110 & ww296 is like 1400 fps using a 300gr bullet this is bye far not moderate, Starting load using WW296 is 28gr and the max for the 44mag is 24gr, I think for the most part this handgun is too much for most people, they just don't know it, for shooting moderate loads the 45LC would work better or even a 44 mag. Note: I did notice the 260 gr Partiongold bye winchester shot very well and not as hot as the factory Hornady's, Winchester X 250gr shot well and where the tamest out of them all for factory loads I tried, Boy I am glad I reload those PartionGolds where $25.00 for 20 round box what a rip Note: if you do shoot 45LC out of your 454 Casull be sure to clean it before shooting 454's due to the 45LC are shorter, a residue builds up and can cause the 454's to get stuck when the expanding over the residue from the 45LC's.
Aim small hit small. RAMbo.

P.S here's what Chuck Hawks thinks about the 454 Casull
http://www.chuckhawks.com/454casull.htm

 

[csward]

Hi Bujzzard1,
Boy ! You got replies from all the bigtime pistol shooters ! They are all great guys, but I want to tell you what I found out today about taming the .454 without reloading: Check oit http://www.gary reed.com and read about all the heavy hitters. I'm going to have him add a muzzle brake to my SRK in .454 casull as soon as I scrape up $140 ! When asked about the effacacy of his brake, he said that last week he shot an African buffalo using a TC in .300 Win. Mag. w/ 14" barrel. The previous week he shot the gun without a brake and had trouble keeping the gun off his forehead. Afterwards, the gun barely raised off the bench and the rearward movement was not great. The noise was terrible,however.
This may well be the most accurate pistol I've ever owned and I've owned them all at one time or another. Two days ago I shot a group at 25 yards that measured 1.135" for the 5, and only 0.685" for four of them. For me that is pretty good. The load was: 185 gr. Montana Gold JHP bullets, WSR primers, 6.0 grains of Universal Clays powder, Starline brass. The gun had a 2 power scope, which is coming off. The load is below that recommended for .45 LC with a 185 gr JHP so today I reloaded 25 more like above, but I increased the load to 6.4 grains. The original was like shooting a lightg target load in a .38 spl case in a Ruger GP100 .357 mag.
Your gun sells where I live, used, for $600 in gun shops and about $500 from private parties.
My advice to you? Keep the gun. Concentrate on the .243 for fun and games and hunting smaller of the big game. Put the pistol away until you can either reload or can buy a brake or both.
Rmouleart: Raise your sights. You said,"I never could understand why------." Other than that your advice `was super good.
csward

 

[Buzzard1]

I have been reading the replies from all of you gentlemen with interest. To be honest, at least three times each.

I am sorry that I did not go into a long tedious dissertation as to my complete intentions.

One of the other reasons for me wanting to tame the recoil was to enable me to work up to potential of the weapon.

But, in the process to do it with accuracy, proficiency, and enjoyment.

This is based on a process I observed and then utilized with some of troops later on. The system was computerized but with the "Weaponeer" the rifle could be adjusted to provide no recoil so that the trainee could concentrate on sight picture and sight alignment. Then as the proficiency of the individual in question increased in the training session we could adjust the weapon to provide a recoil feedback. This could be adjusted without the trainee knowing that any changes had been made.

Results were positive. When taking the trainee to the range in most cases the subject very quickly realized that with the A-2 that there was a distinct difference in trigger pull between shots. The A-2 has three distinct trigger pulls due to the sear disconnect used for the three round burst. In Semi Auto the shooter can feel the difference.

I was intending to work up the full load/factory loads in a gradual manner so that I did not induce the flinch again.

I pride myself on accuracy, proficiency, and safety.

I believe but I could be mistaken that I posted elsewhere that I have the Lee anniversary kit and have been reading the manuals, other articles, and vendor data, before I sprung for dies, and materials.

Well, to help shorten this spiel some I have purchased the RCBS dies for the Casull. My next step is the Starline cases.

Presently my son is reading through the Lee manual. I am going to involve him also. At 13 his mind has not been dulled or numbed from too much noise and he doesn't squint from looking into too many sunrises and sets.

Plus, it just warms this old guy's heart to share with him.

Once again, THANK YOU Gentlemen, I look forward to more information from all of ya'll.

"Knees in the breeze."

 

[Old Jim]

I was at a gun show over the weekend. A vendor had a .454 SRH in gray with a 7.5 barrel. Super looking gun.
I picked it up, looked it over and started to move on when the vendor told me that he had already had several hundred people do just what I had done. No one had offered a price or had even asked him what he wanted for it.
Way more gun than most people can handle.

 

[Gunnut45/454]

Rmouleart
You maybe correct in saying that the 454 was ment to be shot only at full loads- this maybe good for you, but not all shooters of the 454 need to be at your level. Actually this best groups I've shot with my SRH have ben with mild 45 colt loads. and I'm working on my hard hitter in the 454- 300 gr WFN -which I just got the mould for just recently so I was limited in the power of the rounds I could create until now.

The reason I love the SRH 454, is I can load and shoot it at such varried levels of power- it makes for a very versital gun- very much like the 30-06! From mild pinking/hunting all the way up to stop just about any thing thats walks power! Some times its nice to know you have that capability- it's my do any thing hunting gun!

 

[loader]

I have this exact revolver, and never would have bought it if i was not a handloader. Full power 300 gr loads at 1700 fps generate 43.5 fp of free recoil, and that is imparted to the palm and web of one hand. All of this is done in the name of velocity, which bleeds off of the big blunt bullet rapidly and does a lot of damage to the air between you and your target if it is very far away.

If it is very far away, one would have a hard enough time hitting it with a 158 gr 357 Mag (10 fpe)let alone a load of OO buck from a 6.5 pound 12 guage (40 fpe)fired from one hand.

The virtue of the 454 lies in its strength and large case capacity, which allows a handloader to use smaller amounts of fast powder to launch heavy cast bullets at moderate velocities. You can push 360 to 385 gr LGCs to 1150 fps, and cut recoil in half. The sectional densities of these bullets are over .250 and the big meplats make expansion a moot point. It has 20% more knock down power than a 300 gr 44 Mag and less recoil.

More power simply is not needed. Even in Bear country, I would feel less pucker in a confrontation with these loads than the hot 300 jacketed rounds because I know I can shoot several rounds quickly in double action mode and hit what I'm aiming at.

Any 454 load using over 20 grs of powder belongs in an Encore with a muzzle brake.

 

[Buzzard1]

Hello to all,

Just returned from the range a short time ago.

Had a pleasant day of it. Sixty degrees is real pleasant.
Besides that my son went along. Makes it pleasant no matter the weather.

We were able to zero in our rifles in short order allowing me to move to the 50 yard targets and try the SRH 454 with the Pachmeyer Decelerator Grips my wife purchased me for Christmas.

I can say that those grips made a world of difference.

So much so that I was able to zero it in from a supported rest to hit 2 inches high at 50 yards.

Heck I even had nice groups with those 260gr Partition Gold Winchester factory loads.

I even have a nice accumulation of once fired brass to be cleaned for use in the RCBS die I also now own thanks to the jolly fat man. (Wonder who told the kids). My ladies must have listened to their younger brother for a change.

I did notice some fatique around the sixth cylinder full, but what the heck, I was really having fun. I am a little sorry for the gentlemen who were bore sighting their rifles. One guy said the blast was making him flinch. I did notice the pine needles falling off the roof when I touched it off.

I decided to stop when that one gentlemen pointed out nicely that it was causing him problems.

I had my fun and look forward to shrinking those groups to as tight as I can get with some that I have rolled myself.

I appreciate everyones input, advise, and patience.

May all be blessed with a bountiful and prosperous New Year.

Buzzard1