[HGFoxFire]

So i've decided on a .308 Savage rifle, and narrowed my choice down to the law enforcement series. I had a preference towards FCM Scout but I really don't know a whole lot about these guns and im fairly new to target shooting.

This gun wont be used for hunting...since I don't hunt.

Any advice on guns for target shooting, law enforcement series or otherwise, and also a good choice of glass would be very welcome. I would prefer to keep the rifle under $1000 but I will listen to any advice.

EDIT: I had the glass narrowed down to Leupold. They just have so many options I don't know what to go with.

 

[shane256]

What ranges (how far) are you going to be shooting?

 

[HGFoxFire]

Honestly, as little as 100 all the way up to 1000. I don't know where I would be able to shoot 1000 yards where I live, but I would like to have the capability if I was ever in a position to shoot that far.

 

[Big Z]

Check out the leupold custom shop, snatch up a vx3 or mark 4 with m1 turrets and a fine duplex reticle. Or buy used and send it to the shop to have 'em put the dials on for about $120. Leupold's a good choice for sure (the lifetime warranty doesn't hurt). I'd personally way rather shoot a 7mm-08 than 308; 162 amaxs would outshine the 308 with anything. Ballistic coefficient is your friend when stuff gets farther.

 

[HGFoxFire]

All good stuff to know. I did look at the vx3 line. Any suggestions as to what power? I see alot of people say 14x is excessive but I kind of like the idea of having the extra zoom.

As for the m1 turrets... Can you tell me anything about them or what makes them a better choice? Also, what do you think of my choice of rifle? I know the barrel is only something like 20 or 21 inches but I read that it will only lower your fps by a small margin and wont hurt accuracy.

I think I have my mind dead set on a .308, also the specific rifle I picked out only comes in a .308. Regardless i'll look into the 7mm-08.

 

[BKeith]

I think the main question is, what are you expecting for accuracy? When you say taget rifle, that's a very broad statement.

Do you reload? That's another item that's going to determine accuracy. You will have a hard time finding a factory load that's going to be real accurate. Some of the custom load companies do pretty good but you're going to pay dearly for those.

If you want a rifle that's going to come even close to being a "Target" rifle, you will need to build it or pay a hellava lot more than $1,000. If, 1/2" to 3/4" groups at 100yds are good, then you might be happy with you're choice. If you reload, you might get a little tighter than the 1/2" but don't bet any paychecks on it.

There are a couple of custom smiths that build nice rifles for approx $2,500 using your (remington) action that will shoot 1/4" groups all day long with good loads. You can buy a Tac Ops rifle for about $5,000 that will put the first bullet from a cold barrel in the same spot it will put the last bullet from a warm barrel.

The only way you can get a realy good shooter in the cartridge I would recommend is a custom barrel, but the 260 or 260AI makes a very fine shooter.

Just don't exect NO over the counter rifle, mass produced rifle to shoot great. Like any production item, there are some extra tolerances allowed that make getting a good shooter, a hit or miss deal.

For a scope, yes, Leopold is a good scope, I have a couple of them. I bought my first Sightron SIII last year, I now have four of them. If you get the oppertunity to compare the two outside at long range, you will see why I've changed.

 

[Runnin Lead]

For a target rifle you may also want to look into the Savage 12 Palma & 12 F class
rifles,they are singleshot bolt actions & are target rifles.
You may want to look into what type of target shooting & maybe compitition you may be interested in & what would be most suitable for that before you buy & get what would be best for what you may have as a future intended use.
It may end up costing a little more now but having what you need will save $$$$$
in the future.
The Savage target rifles are about as good as it gets from a production rifle for a target rifle, to get better you would need to go custom.
I don't know where you are , Colorado has 1 1,000yd range about an hour east of Denver,they shoot palma, F class , benchrest & BPCR.
Also to consider is silhouette, there are 2 classes one being a hunting rifle class, the other that allows for a heavier rifle . The high power rifle silhouette is shot offhand at
200m,300m,385m & 500m at knock down steel targets.
Also there is blackpowder cartridge rifle silhouette, that is slot offhand at 200m & off of cross sticks prone or sitting at 300m,385m & 500m.
Maybe someone can name some other types of target shooting for you to think about, you have to know what you may want to use it for, before you know what exactly you realy need.
Hope I'm not confusing you,you may just want this for casual target shooting.
If you were to state where you were at someone from that area may say what type of shooting is available around that area.

 

[2Bits]

HGfoxfire, you have made a good choice! I don't think you will be disappointed in your selecton of the rifle. Savage makes some very accurate rifles as of lately and I myself just ordered another model 12 ($740.oo) only instead of the .204 caliber, I jumped up to one of my favorites the 22-250 caliber. The rifle has a laminated stock with stainless steel action and barrel. It is a bench type rifle, with target crown etc. The Savage trigger is the best in the industry in my humble opinion.

Savage's new target rifle is top notch for the person wanting to go the bench rest route on the cheap end and still compete with the big boys and their $3,500 dollar and up rifle, the Savage will certainly do it's part on shooting small groups. I love the trigger also on this new target model, it is very light and a warning is put on the side of the barrel just to let shooters know, this trigger is super light to the touch. Good Luck with your rifle.

I will also let you know that Bushnell makes a great "cheap" scope with a lot of quality for the money spent ($385.oo) with 5 x 15 power, turrets and mil-dot reticules with an ADJ A0 as well. This Tactical Series Bushnell scope is good quailty and offers a lot for the money. I purchased 4 of these scopes at Cabela's several months ago, I am well satisfied and saved a ton of money over the $645 dollar Leupold scope.

 

[Big Z]

I see alot of people say 14x is excessive but I kind of like the idea of having the extra zoom.

As for the m1 turrets... Can you tell me anything about them or what makes them a better choice?

Regardless i'll look into the 7mm-08.

The 14x at longer ranges, and you might need the AO knob and have touchier eye relief. You might as well go 3.5-10. There will always be a place for it, even if some day down the road you go for a high-x in a 30mm tube. Don't slack on glass....pay 200 bucks now, and eventually, you could end up wishing you saved the 200 and paid the 600 for something that did the trick the first time (ask me how I know).

The m1s are easy, solid, and most importantly, consistent. 60 bucks each for elevation and windage now I believe, standard 20 bucks handling in the custom shop. The MOA adjustments can accomodate any load, just take your own drop data.

Personally, I'd avoid 30 cals if at all possible when a 7mm is around. The high BCs pay off more and more the farther you go. Then again, when you burn out your 308 bbl you could always drop in your own 7mm-08 barrel later (hint) if you go with a savage that's available only in 308 in a short action.

I'll take a peek at the guns you've listed...

 

[BKeith]

I didn't read where you think 14X might be too much, I say that's bull if all you're going to be doing is target shooting.
As a minimum, I would go with an 8 - 32x. I have two 8-32x56 Sightrons and several times wished I had gone with one that goes to 40x with the second one I bought. Yes, it takes some getting used to and there are times mirage is going to keep you from cranking it up, but it's there when conditions are right, and it sure is nice having when they are. When shooting targets, at 400yds and greater, I seldom turn it back below 24X and a lot of times have it on the full 32x.

Now, even at 400yds, with it's cranked up to 32x you can have a some difficulty finding your target if you're rifle recoils off the target each shot. The 260 one is on does not move off target so you can shoot with ease at 32x. My 6.5x284 will rock you a lot more and it takes a few seconds to find the target again with it. If I'm wanting to try some quick shots, I back the power back on it.

 

[HGFoxFire]

Sounds like some pretty good advice all around. Now, would I like my gun to be very accurate? Yes...am I expecting it to shoot groups like the custom high dollar guns, not exactly.

I've done about as much research as I can do, since at this point im running into the problem of personal opinion. Right now I can't afford a custom rifle and I think I have picked out a pretty good manufactured rifle to do the job.

Really at this point I just need to buy my choice of rifle and glass...and give em a go. If later down the road I decide to go the custom route...well I wouldn't say it was for nothing because you can never have too many guns

The only other question I have is about the barrel length. Should I opt for a rifle that has a longer barrel over my choice with the 20.5 inch? There are a few others in my price range that have up to a 24" and still have both the accustock and accutrigger

 

[HGFoxFire]

Now you've got me looking at sightron, I didn't know about them until you mentioned it. Went to a comparison thread and most people say they are very comparable with little to no difference other than price. Might have to check into it.

Either way im going to Cabelas and i'll see what im getting in person. I'll ask alot of the same questions there that i've already asked here.

 

[BKeith]

One more point to be sure and not overlook when picking out a scope.
How many MOA full travel it gives you. I don't own a 308 so I don't have any experience to go on but I do know they drop like a lead sled when you start trying to reach out 800 - 1,000yds with them. You will almost certainly need a 30mm tube and probably a scope thats going to give you a lot of adjustment. I have serous doubts a small 50moa scope is going to get you out very far. To get to 1,000yds you may need to go with a 20 MOA mount of some sort.

Maybe some guys on here shoot a 308 at 1,000 yds can give you some more precise info but be sure to check it out.

 

[Runnin Lead]

If you use the Burris Signature Rings & the inserts you can get a !,000 yard zero E-Z,
you will need to be about 45 " high @ 100 yds , about 11" high @ 25 yds

With a + .020 on one end of your scope & a -.020 on the other that would give you about 40'' high @ 100 , you would still need about 5 " more @ 100 yds that adj can be easily be made with your scope.
This is an estimate , it will vary with your bullet & load but will be close.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=152777

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=712472

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=416175

30 mm tube not required , also Burris does not make the offset inserts for their 30mm rings.

 

[mr_tw]

I would personally suggest a longer barrel, a 24 or 26, but then on the other hand I would also be more likely to choose a little faster round in the 7mm category, like the 7mm Rem Mag. if your looking at similar bullet weights to a .308 (.308 165 grain vs .284 (7mm) 165 grain) you get a higher Ballistic coefficient, and around 400 fps, and when you combine the 2 that makes a huge difference at 1000 yards!

I'm not saying what you laid out is a bad choice, just puttin' in my .02 cents

Whatever you get, be sure to post pictures!

 

[Runnin Lead]

You may be better off with something more like this
http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/12%20FTR
The longer30" barrel will help you increase your muzzle velocity.
you want your bullet to remain sonic ,bullets groups will open up as bullet
drops from sonic to subsonic.
Something else for you to think about for shooting 1,000 yds.
http://www.digitaldutch.com/atmoscalc/
Thought that may also be of intrest.

 

[HGFoxFire]

I've spent some time looking over my options, and i've decided to go with .308. My gun of choice is now between the Savage Law Enforcement Series: 10 FCP-K and the Savage Hunter Series: Model 11 long range hunter.

While I did look into 7mm-08 and 7mm mag I ultimately ruled them out for the shear cost. I do understand that 308 doesn't shoot as straight as the other calibers mentioned but this also wont be a competition rifle...I will be shooting it purely for fun at my leisure. If I was to get more serious into shooting for sport or competition I would absolutely not be opposed to those other calibers but for now I don't think it's for me.

As for the glass...I was mainly looking into Leupold, though after going to Cabelas and looking through them compared to a few other quality brands I may choose otherwise. They were absolutely great quality, but I felt through comparison that you were paying a little steeply for a name paired with quality coated glass.

Some alternate glass I checked out was the Nikon Buckmaster 6-18x40 Side Focus Matte Fine Crosshair w/Dot for an awesome $360.00 and a Nikon Monarch 8-32x50 ED Side Focus Matte BDC at a list price of $700.00 "though I was able to spot it online for as low as $550.00"

Most other glass options I looked through were foggy and low light at higher power...

Something else to note, I have this best of everything complex...In all honesty where I live I will probably only see 300 yards at best. I don't think we have any ranges around that reach out to the longer distances. So for me the .308 is an acceptable round to shoot and I think either of the two rifles I have chosen would get the job done very well. As for the glass...I had to talk myself out of some of the more expensive Leupold's, While I would love to have one, I really don't need one for the distance i'll be shooting on a regular basis. And when I say target rifle, it's pretty much going to be me going out with friends to shoot paper targets and 2 liter bottles for fun.

So far everyone has given great advice and it has helped me greatly in deciding what was right for me. I'll make sure to update this when I have everything finalized.

 

[Dusty42597]

Have you ever seen the CZ 550 Varminter in the Kevlar stock? Every CZ I have seen will shoot 1 hole groups at 100 yards. My buddy has the CZ Sniper in 308 and he is shooting 1" groups at 300 yards. Also, he is really new to the shooting world. It will get better.

 

[Savage Hunter]

If you are looking at doing some target shooting, I would stay away from the shorter barrels. I would personally opt for a 24" or 26" barrel. Besides the Law Enforcement Series, have you looked at some of the model 12 varmint and target rifles? Some are higher than $1,000, but most of them are around $1,000 or less. Of course, some of them don't come in .308, but many of them do. With these rifles, you'll end up with better barrels (heavier and longer), better stocks, and in some cases better triggers and more precise actions (target actions).

I'm in a similar boat as you. I want an accurate rifle (in .223 Rem) for about $1,000 for long-range target shooting (mostly non-competitive, but maybe 1-2 competitions per year), that I can sometimes use for varmint hunting, and I'm looking at one of the Savage model 12's, I just don't know which one yet. I prefer a detachable magazine over single shot, so that rules out some of the model 12's, but there are still lots to choose from...that's part of the problem...too many choices!

14 power is not too much if you're going to be doing some long-distance shooting, and if you're shooting at shorter ranges, you can dial it back. I've shot 600 m in competition with a .308 and 24 power scope and it wasn't too much scope. Sure, it can be a challenge to find the target, but you can always dial it back if need be.

 

[HGFoxFire]

If you are looking at doing some target shooting, I would stay away from the shorter barrels. I would personally opt for a 24" or 26" barrel. Besides the Law Enforcement Series, have you looked at some of the model 12 varmint and target rifles? Some are higher than $1,000, but most of them are around $1,000 or less. Of course, some of them don't come in .308, but many of them do. With these rifles, you'll end up with better barrels (heavier and longer), better stocks, and in some cases better triggers and more precise actions (target actions).

I'm in a similar boat as you. I want an accurate rifle (in .223 Rem) for about $1,000 for long-range target shooting (mostly non-competitive, but maybe 1-2 competitions per year), that I can sometimes use for varmint hunting, and I'm looking at one of the Savage model 12's, I just don't know which one yet. I prefer a detachable magazine over single shot, so that rules out some of the model 12's, but there are still lots to choose from...that's part of the problem...too many choices!

14 power is not too much if you're going to be doing some long-distance shooting, and if you're shooting at shorter ranges, you can dial it back. I've shot 600 m in competition with a .308 and 24 power scope and it wasn't too much scope. Sure, it can be a challenge to find the target, but you can always dial it back if need be.

I ended up going with the Law Enforcement Series 10 FCP-K. 24" barrel in .308

I looked at just about every rifle they had in .308 and the one I chose fit me the most out of everything I looked at. Detachable box, accustock and accutrigger. 24" Barrel. Final price on the rifle after ordering was less than $800, which left me with some much needed cash to purchase a quality scope. Im still having a hard time deciding what brand and what power for the glass.

Because of my distance limitation I don't want to over do it and spend a ton more than I need to, but another part of me just wants the best of everything. I know Leupold is good, but I feel like maybe you pay a little over the top for only a 14 power scope...when I could get a Nikon Monarch in 32 power for the same price.