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I was issued a model 36 at one time or another and I carried it for probably ten years. During that time I picked up a Taurus model 85 dirt cheap new. So when I retired and had to give back the 36 I had a complex about carrying the Taurus and bought a S&W 637. I suppose the complex had more to do with it than anything, but I do like the light weight and the Taurus is heavy, so the Smith has become my carry gun. Over the past twelve years I've often times thought of getting rid of the Taurus, but it just isn't worth enough to make it worth while. Monday I went out to the range to shoot. There hasn't been anyone there on Mondays. I shoot the Smith all of the time. I just like snubbies. But Monday I took the Taurus out with me too. I ran fifty rounds through each gun and I walked away feeling guilty that I think that Taurus is a better gun, and I feel that way every time I shoot it. Just saying. It is a heavy little thing though.
 

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I was issued a model 36 at one time or another and I carried it for probably ten years. During that time I picked up a Taurus model 85 dirt cheap new. So when I retired and had to give back the 36 I had a complex about carrying the Taurus and bought a S&W 637. I suppose the complex had more to do with it than anything, but I do like the light weight and the Taurus is heavy, so the Smith has become my carry gun. Over the past twelve years I've often times thought of getting rid of the Taurus, but it just isn't worth enough to make it worth while. Monday I went out to the range to shoot. There hasn't been anyone there on Mondays. I shoot the Smith all of the time. I just like snubbies. But Monday I took the Taurus out with me too. I ran fifty rounds through each gun and I walked away feeling guilty that I think that Taurus is a better gun, and I feel that way every time I shoot it. Just saying. It is a heavy little thing though.

1.) Taurus *can* make good guns. Smith *can* make bad guns. It's just the relative rarity that gives each company their reputation.


2.) The Taurus isn't heavy; the Smith is light.


While I've never owned a S&W 637, I had a 642 for a while. I also had a Taurus 850 (which is basically the Taurus version of the S&W 642). If I had to guess, you're liking the 85 because the greater mass tames the recoil more. Enjoying shooting the gun helps you shoot it better.
 

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I’m of the same opinion of the post above mine.

From my experience, t’s sad as I think Taurus has a lot of good designs but the quality of build is always spotty.

Your as likely to get a bad gun from s&w as you are a good gun from Taurus.

Despite most of the internet complaints, s&w doesn’t put out that many lemons and their warranty is excellent and they will fix any real issues with a firearm. I’ve seen fewer Taurus handguns at the range and at the club than any other brand. To pair with that. I’ve seen more broken Taurus handguns than I’ve seen from all other brands combined. When your warranty is the best part of your product, you have a crap product! Maybe in years to come, Taurus will focus less on cheap price, and more on quality. Because the design is good. The execution is bad. Just My personal opinion though...

I’ve owned a dozen new production s&w handguns and they’ve all been excellent. Currently possess several new production models. A 686+, 66, 360, 442, and two 629’s! All work perfect out of the box. My friends two Taurus revolvers skip cylinders when he shoots them. Talk about sketchy!

Ruger revolvers are GTG too. From what I hear, the Kimber and new Colt production wheel guns are good too.
 

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Pick up a steel J-Frame or K-Frame if the extra weight helps you shoot!

A model 60 is a personal sweetie of a wheel gun for me personally! Or a 640 if you like concealed hammers! Both can handle hotter .357 magnum loads in the rare occasion it’s needed. I have a 180gr hard cast that does 1300fps our of the 3” model 60 and 66. A good hiking/trail riding load if you live in bear country and you want to pack light!

A lightweight scandium frame model 360 though? She’s a nasty spitfire of a wheel gun. I hate shooting my 360, especially when I fire a couple magnums for the rare practice... but it carries easier. And is nice to keep in the camping bag!
 

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My wife bought a Taurus 85 about 35 years ago, its fit and finish are very good, action is smooth its been 100% reliable but as was stated heavy. She bought a S&W 637? airweight a few years ago because of the weight fit and finish were decent-trigger horrible. Pulling off the side plate machining left a lot to be desired. After polishing and spring replacement it has a very good trigger. One of my sons is a big Taurus fan, he has good luck with the wheel guns not so much with the semi autos sometimes they need tweaking to get them to work right. I have a Taurus TCP .380 that I had to do some polishing to make it 100%. One negative about Taurus is they wont sell you parts you have to send the gun to them if it breaks. Smith and Wesson's quality isn't what it used to be but neither is Taurus. A Smith and Wesson is less likely to have an issue , easier to resolve if you do and resale is better. Taurus can make a decent gun but your odds are much better with the S&W.
 

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1.) Taurus *can* make good guns. Smith *can* make bad guns. It's just the relative rarity that gives each company their reputation.

2.) The Taurus isn't heavy; the Smith is light.
That's a good answer. :)

The new Taurus revolvers certainly appear better finished, and a couple I've handled were not "gritty when I cycled the action DA. They might be improving, and on a budget they are better than, "don't do that".
 

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Discussion Starter #7
1.) Taurus *can* make good guns. Smith *can* make bad guns. It's just the relative rarity that gives each company their reputation.


2.) The Taurus isn't heavy; the Smith is light.
You are right, the Smith is light. I think that the Smith is a good gun. I didn't get a bad one, It is a tack driver and if I have to tote one of them around I pick the Smith, just because of the weight. But that Taurus is just a sweet little gun. It could be that it is heavier and easier to shoot. I like snubbie revolvers in general. Love to just go out to the range and squeeze off fifty or a hundred rounds and see what I can hit how far away. I've always liked them, ever since I got the Mattel Snub Nose .38 and shoulder holster that shoot those spring loaded plastic bullets for Christmas of 1957.
 

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What is a heavy gun?
Does it start at 28, 32, 38? or 56? How heavy is the combination of your keys, phone, wallet and the change in your pocket? What about your shoes or boots? what do they weigh?

I am a full grown man and I have carried a 6" Ruger Security-Six in 357 mag as my daily carry gun for close to 48 years and people tell me all the time it is "too big, too heavy" and too much gun. I have added a few pistols to the EDC gun but I am told they are too heavy too. A couple of CZ 75B's in 9mm and 40 caliber and a Ruger GP100 with a 6" barrel in .. yep 357 magnum. I have a 45 Colt but it is single action so I don't use it for self defense. Oh I could with a hot load but it is more for enjoying the art of shooting than for defensive situations.

My question is; Have we gotten so weak that a 3 to 4 pound gun is too heavy for a full grown man to carry? I will commonly carry my 357 and my 40 at the same time. I am a crippled up old man but I never notice the weight and often have to remind myself that I am carrying. ...there was that time at the airport.. but that's for another time.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
What is a heavy gun?
Does it start at 28, 32, 38? or 56? How heavy is the combination of your keys, phone, wallet and the change in your pocket? What about your shoes or boots? what do they weigh?

I am a full grown man and I have carried a 6" Ruger Security-Six in 357 mag as my daily carry gun for close to 48 years and people tell me all the time it is "too big, too heavy" and too much gun. I have added a few pistols to the EDC gun but I am told they are too heavy too. A couple of CZ 75B's in 9mm and 40 caliber and a Ruger GP100 with a 6" barrel in .. yep 357 magnum. I have a 45 Colt but it is single action so I don't use it for self defense. Oh I could with a hot load but it is more for enjoying the art of shooting than for defensive situations.

My question is; Have we gotten so weak that a 3 to 4 pound gun is too heavy for a full grown man to carry? I will commonly carry my 357 and my 40 at the same time. I am a crippled up old man but I never notice the weight and often have to remind myself that I am carrying. ...there was that time at the airport.. but that's for another time.
You da man Paul. ;)
 

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What is a heavy gun?
Does it start at 28, 32, 38? or 56? How heavy is the combination of your keys, phone, wallet and the change in your pocket? What about your shoes or boots? what do they weigh?
I think it depends on where you are, and how much concealment is a critical issue. Weight and size are a matter of what you are wearing, and whether you really need the weapon to be concealed. Many areas here in the east, CC is a hotly debated topic, and some people are very much against it. If they are out with a group, and can see you are carrying a gun, they will all swear you threatened them with it. It happens.

Then there's the conditions. I regularly do my areobic workouts in parks and similar environments year round. I can carry my .380 Bodyguard in the stretch band of my sweats or shorts without it pulling my shorts down, it's not in the way cycling through the countryside. That may not be "manly," as some like to walk around with their pants falling off. I don't.

Size and weight often go together, a concept known as mass. Sometimes that mass thing needs to be considered, and when it does, lighter is usually better when it comes to CC. Even if is isn't "manly". :)
 

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I agree that size and weight can be determining factors. I started carrying my 6" Ruger in a pancake holster that I made to keep the gun high. When I started doing drills I found it very hard to access unless I was standing or erect on my knees. I switched to a shoulder rig and that proved accessible in all positions unless I was laying on it but then I could turn a bit and gain access. I am going to make a new shoulder rig for my CZ's to get them off my belt too. When you are in a car with a seat belt on it is hard to get at a gun placed at 4 o'clock on your waist.
In Seattle the mood toward guns changed a lot before I left but I never exposed my 357 and during the summer I just put a loose fitting shirt over it.
I will warn you that most classes won't allow a shoulder rig because as you draw it the gun is pointed behind you. You will need a belt holster for those classes. For that reason I practice my draw and presentation at home with the shoulder rig. At the range we are limited to low ready as drawing from a holster is prohibited.
 

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I agree that size and weight can be determining factors. I started carrying my 6" Ruger in a pancake holster that I made to keep the gun high. When I started doing drills I found it very hard to access unless I was standing or erect on my knees. I switched to a shoulder rig and that proved accessible in all positions unless I was laying on it but then I could turn a bit and gain access. I am going to make a new shoulder rig for my CZ's to get them off my belt too. When you are in a car with a seat belt on it is hard to get at a gun placed at 4 o'clock on your waist.
In Seattle the mood toward guns changed a lot before I left but I never exposed my 357 and during the summer I just put a loose fitting shirt over it.
Well, when it comes to getting a concealed weapon into action, there is no good way to accomplish the feat, unless it's hiding in your hand. I have several types of holsters, tried about two small fortunes worth. Every one is a compromise, no matter what the size, revolver or auto. Hiding it from the public is fairly easy, but getting to it , not so much. I have the best access with an appendix carry with respect to fast, but I wouldn't call myself Quick Draw McGraw by any stretch. And appendix carry on my frame and build is limited to a snub revolver or compact auto. Oh well, prepare for the worst, and hope for the best.
 

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What is a heavy gun?
Does it start at 28, 32, 38? or 56? How heavy is the combination of your keys, phone, wallet and the change in your pocket? What about your shoes or boots? what do they weigh?

I am a full grown man and I have carried a 6" Ruger Security-Six in 357 mag as my daily carry gun for close to 48 years and people tell me all the time it is "too big, too heavy" and too much gun. I have added a few pistols to the EDC gun but I am told they are too heavy too. A couple of CZ 75B's in 9mm and 40 caliber and a Ruger GP100 with a 6" barrel in .. yep 357 magnum. I have a 45 Colt but it is single action so I don't use it for self defense. Oh I could with a hot load but it is more for enjoying the art of shooting than for defensive situations.

My question is; Have we gotten so weak that a 3 to 4 pound gun is too heavy for a full grown man to carry? I will commonly carry my 357 and my 40 at the same time. I am a crippled up old man but I never notice the weight and often have to remind myself that I am carrying. ...there was that time at the airport.. but that's for another time.
I’m with you. I carry a newer model 66 combat magnum with 2.75” tube 90% of the time this last year. A little lighter than your wheel guns but still “heavy” by most standards. Very rarely, I will carry a 629 4” .44 magnum in the winter. Or a 686+ 4”. But only in the cold weather with heavy clothing and usually when camping!

When I’m not carrying the 66, I’m carrying an Alloy frame Sig P-Series pistol. Which is considered “heavy” when compared to today’s polymer autos. Usually carrying the model 66 but a P229, P226, or P220 will slip inside my waistband from time to time. All the Sig’s are DA first shot. The wheel gun of course is always DA! :D

As of late I’ve been carrying the P229 W/ 16 rounds of 9mm more often. And I’m keeping a tactical carbine at the ready or in the truck with me. Crime is on the rise... stay safe everyone!
 

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Our local Sportsmen's Warehouse has a flyer bargain S&W 642-2 with the Hillary lock, for $369. plus tax. Also a Ruger LCP for one Benjamin less. I watched a YT video clip of a fellow pulling out the hair spring working that hammer block, and I think it's worse than the little catch spring on an old Remmie R-51's slide stop lever. Does anyone have a few words of wisdom, here?
 

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Our local Sportsmen's Warehouse has a flyer bargain S&W 642-2 with the Hillary lock, for $369. plus tax. Also a Ruger LCP for one Benjamin less. I watched a YT video clip of a fellow pulling out the hair spring working that hammer block, and I think it's worse than the little catch spring on an old Remmie R-51's slide stop lever. Does anyone have a few words of wisdom, here?
If you’re referring to the “Hillary hole” safety block. It is a fairly easy part to “delete” although I’ve never had a problem with it on any of mine.

I do wish S&W would just delete the internal lock though. There are many external locks on the market for those who want them.
 

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I've owned an 85 since '99. Very reliable. Only shoots .38 specials not .357's. Carries well on the waist but not so much in a pocket holster 'cause of weight. Thousands of rounds never been to a 'smith. Still gets used but only a few times a year now. This gun led me to purchase a couple of Taurus semi-auto's that I no longer have. Never kept either of them more than a year. Quality was just not there.
 

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TMan,
A concealed gun is not for fast draw, it's for surprise.
Smooth access is more important than speed because it doesn't draw as much attention.
The nice thing about a shoulder rig is that I can reach in and grab a pack of cigarettes or a billfold from a suit jacket and ask if anyone wants a cigarette. Put the pack back in the pocket and come out with a six inch 357 magnum. If the bad guy wants my credit cards after finding the billfold pretty empty I comply but pull out the magnum instead.

How many times can I pull the trigger in the second that it takes him to realize what is going on? Twice but at that range I only need one. That 140 grain HP travelling at 1599+ fps is going to split his head wide open. I practice all the time at various ranges with one to six targets spread wide or close. I'm not that good when moving but can still hit high mid chest. I practice shooting from the hip, from the ribs and full extension. Mostly just strong hand but I have practised intermittently with my weak hand. I only use both hands when firing at longer distances - I need the extra support when aiming at 1" targets at 25 yards. My favorite drill is the El Presidente' from 6 yards with the targets five feet apart. It's a lot faster with a 16 round magazine but I have been doing it with my revolver for a lot of years.
 

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What is a heavy gun?
Does it start at 28, 32, 38? or 56? How heavy is the combination of your keys, phone, wallet and the change in your pocket? What about your shoes or boots? what do they weigh?

I am a full grown man and I have carried a 6" Ruger Security-Six in 357 mag as my daily carry gun for close to 48 years and people tell me all the time it is "too big, too heavy" and too much gun. I have added a few pistols to the EDC gun but I am told they are too heavy too. A couple of CZ 75B's in 9mm and 40 caliber and a Ruger GP100 with a 6" barrel in .. yep 357 magnum. I have a 45 Colt but it is single action so I don't use it for self defense. Oh I could with a hot load but it is more for enjoying the art of shooting than for defensive situations.

My question is; Have we gotten so weak that a 3 to 4 pound gun is too heavy for a full grown man to carry? I will commonly carry my 357 and my 40 at the same time. I am a crippled up old man but I never notice the weight and often have to remind myself that I am carrying. ...there was that time at the airport.. but that's for another time.


Yeah, people have changed. Look at Bill Jordan, Keith, and Bryce. They carried full size guns. Model 27... Keith had two n frames that he tended to carry at the same time in his later years for fun. Ironically to do that they all used traditional gun belts. Think standard police gun belt circa 1950 and you have the idea.

Look at modern holsters and gun belts, most gun belts these day are just the same cheap crap you find in the mens department at walmart or target labeled as dress belts. You cant trust them to hold up your pants in public, so you really cant trust them to hold your pants AND a handgun up.

Current philosophy for civilian concealed carry is going back to focusing on the gun simply being a visual deterent, much along the joke lines of "the European police" using 32 auto as a cartridge because they never expected to use it.
 
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