[Registered]

Howdy, Pilgrams, This is the Grizzz, I see alot of you flatlanders have viewed my inquiry about the Taurus 445. Seems to be a problem with getting an answer. So let me give  you some background about my question. I read an article in a hand gun mag, about Taurus's models 441, 450 and 445. they compared all three. Understanding the power of the 41mag. and the .45 long colt. Both of which are greater than the .44sp The .44sp being a pussycat next to them. I got to wondering, Since the 441 and the 450 handle muzzle vel. up in the 1200 fps range, Why would'nt the 445 handle the same kind of muzzle vel. <!--emo&???--><img src="http://beartoothbullets.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'><!--endemo-->?? Well, That kind of muzzle vel. puts the .44sp in the .44 mag. range { on the low side of course } I bought some MAG TECH .44 mag ammo rated at 1180 fps. I'm tempted to try this round in the 445. But MY Mother did'nt raise no fool. Plus I don't want to screw up a beauitful weapon, I love this 445 It's my main conceled carry piece. But being a curious sort, I'm still wondering if I needed to would this gun handle factory loaded .44 mag again on the {low side}<!--emo&???--><img src="http://beartoothbullets.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'><!--endemo-->???  Any experts out there?<!--emo&???--><img src="http://beartoothbullets.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'><!--endemo--> I'm looking for all the feed back and expert advice I can get..   Still curious, but not stupid!!!  

 

[Bill Lester]

First off is the question of cylinder and chamber length. A .44 Special should not be able to accept a .44 Magnum. Period. If it does, there is a problem with the gun and it should be returned to Taurus.

The .41 can get away with it because these guns are five-shot cylinders. Lots more metal between each chamber than in a .44 Special or .45 Colt. Even then I have my doubts about longevity when used with full-power .Magnum loads. With standard-type handloads, the .44 Special and .45 Colt are pretty close. 240 to 250-grain bullets around 800-900 fps. The .44 Mag is a big jump from that with a thinwall cylinder.

I'd strongly suggest staying away from the idea.

 

[Contender]

Grizzz,

As Bill stated above, you won't be able to chamber the 44 Mag ammo in that gun as the chamber is cut too shallow for the 44 mag ammo. The 44 mag case being about a tenth of an inch longer than the special case. If it does chamber and the gun is designated for 44 Spl ammo only, there is a problem and the gun should go back.

Many, many years ago, Elmer Keith experimented with high pressure loadings in 44 Spl revolvers and cases. This resulted in the development of the 44 Mag as we know it today.

If you are tempted to do the same with your 44 Spl cases, keep in mind that Elmer blew up more than a fair share of guns doing this. There is no way a home reloader can really know for sure what pressures he is loading to in this area.

My advice is to heed the warning from Bill and use that gun with the cartridges it was intended for (44 Spl) and if you feel you need the extra power, get yourself a revolver that is chambered for a heavier round.

Regards

 

[James Gates]

Friends All....Sorry, but I know of no guns Elmer blew with .44 Special. He did blow some older Colt SA with heavy 45 Long Colt loads. He had a bad scar on his right hand that was put there by the loading gate. As I remember he did that with a heavy black powder load and 300 grain cast bullet in a 1st generation Colt. He switched over S&W's and did most of his development of .44 Special in it. The .44 Special is an outgrowth of the .44 Russian. The reason the .44 Special has been loaded down over the years is because the old Smith & Wesson No 3 break tops were still around. Any Mod 1950 Smith and Wesson, Triple Lock or Colt New Service, Plus the 2nd and 3rd generation Colt SA's, and modern made .44 Specials(large frame) can handle Elmer's load of 18.5 grs of 2400 and a 250 cast bullet @ 1200'/?-6" barrel. We even tested that load in the little Charter Arms. Recoli was terrible. but the little gun did not shake apart.
Another interesting thing about that 250 @ 1200'/"..After the .44 mag can out, Elmer switched to 4" barrel Mod 29's...That still gave the 1200'/" or so with the factory and his new handload. Something to think about! That's considered a PeeWee load now days, but I sure would not have been the one to tell Elmer That!
Best Regards, James

 

[Bill Lester]

James,

It's interesting that you mentioned heavy loads in the Charter Arms Bulldogs. I owned three and shot them all into early retirement with 180-grain JHPs @ 1150 and 240/250-grain LSWCs @ 900 fps. None of my guns saw 3000 rounds. Disheartening, as I really liked the idea for concealed carry.

 

[James Gates]

Bill...We never shot that many rounds through the little Charter Arms and I am sure you are correct. I put them in the same class as pushing too much +P through the older J frame Smiths.
Something interesting about the Charter Arms Bulldog in .44 Special....We made up, at the request for Sky Marshalls, a strange run of ammo years ago. It was a dead soft lead cupped round, 250 gr as I recall, that moved at 850'/". Recoil was rough and it leaded like the devil! The bullet looked like a reversed shotgun slug! It was designed to stay insider a hijacker, so that the skin of the aircraft would not be holed. All in All...a nasty little round!
Best regards, James

 

[Bill Lester]

James,

I remember seeing a box of them for sale at a gun show several years back. Very plain white box with black lettering if I remember correctly. They looked fearsome for close-in defensive shooting. The guy was asking something like &#3675 for the box.

 

[Contender]

Sounds like one of Dean Grennel's "Spelunker" bullets.

 

[Registered]

Howdy Pilgrams, The GRIZZZ here, Finally getting some imput on my question, Thanks much, keep it coming. Be adised that the Taurus 445 takes factory loaded REM and MAGTECH .44 mag rounds right nicely, The rounds slide in and out of the cylinder very nicely and there is about 1/8 inch clearance at the face of the bullet and the face of the cylinder. Didn't plan on shooting low power 44mag rounds for plinking, strickly aas an emergency, IF I ever needed to. That kind of info is always handy to know. I carry a RUGER SUPER BLACKHAWK with 4 5/8 inch barrel for woods use, The 445 is concealed carry.. But would also serve as back up to the Ruger, in the woods, that why I'm curious about being able to handle the exxtra power. I'd never consider using full blown hunting loads in the 445, Just wonder it the 445 was a strong gun up to the 1200fps range? Sure do appricate the imput and info from people who know more than I do, keep it coming, THANKS!!!  

 

[Bill Lester]

As I stated in my first reply, if your gun accepts .44 Magnums then there is a problem. It should be returned to the factory for a new cylinder. Way back when the .357 Magnum was a new cartridge, and up into the early 1960's, there were a few .38 Specials that could do the same. I have read, but do not know for certain, that a number of these long chambered .38 blew to varying degrees when using .357 ammo.

I wouldn't use Magnums in a Taurus 445 even in an emergency. Of course, why would you be carrying two handguns in the woods anyhow?  

 

[Registered]

Mr. Bill Lester, As to your question, Why would you carry two handguns in the woods, Really sir, you must be a Pilgram! Please don't be offended, I'm just having some fun with you. The GRIZZZ, Has a sense of humor, A little wierd at times, but it still is humor. It's called REDUNDANCY, Pilgram. When I go to the woods, even for just a walk or a day trip, the GRIZZZ goes prepared. Without going into too much detail, My motto is being prepared, the SA .44mag is a hunting gun, the 445 is my first line of personnel protection. Against man or beast, DAO is quicker than SA. I also carry several knifes, several types of fire making items, severl first-aid items, I guess by now you've got the picture. I also believe that the laws of man, don't apply very much in the woods, there is only the laws of nature in effect out there. SURIVIAL OF THE FITTEST, And Pilgram the GRIZZZ aims to be the Fittest mother in the woods. Anyway besides all this B.S. I do thank you for your advice and info. I'll galdly take it into account. Thanks again, GRIZZZ

 

[Bill Lester]

I hope you have a good pair of suspenders.

 

[James Gates]

Friend Bill....It must be that thin mountain air?
Oh Well.......Time to feed thr Bulldogs!
Best Regards, James "Swamp Crawler" Gates

 

[seeker two]

To Bill Lester & Grizz:

I agree wholeheartedly about not shooting the Magtechs in the 445. However, I'll disagree about carrying two guns in the woods. I can't think of a good time for a gun to malfunction, but being out in the woods is definitely a bad time for the only gun you have to break. I carry at least two with me myself--a large caliber & a .22lr revolver. Never hurts to be prepared.

Grizz: If you want a backup in .44mag, why don't you shop around for one of the Lew Horton conversions w/ a 2.5-3" bbl.? They often turn up at pretty reasonable prices. Since they're based on the 629, you don't have to worry about if Mags will shoot. And they're not much larger than the 445.

Just my thought...

 

[NITRO]

Taurus 5-shooter

GRIZZ83,
I, like you, wanted a large caliber lightweight heavy hitter so I
purchased the 45 (long) Colt chambered Taurus 450 ultra light. It only weighs 19.5 ounces. It is mostly aluminium alloy with a stainless steel cylinder and barrel liner. I bought it for use as a lightweight back-up piece while Black Bear hunting in north Idaho. What convinced me to get it was the lightweight feature, the 45 Colt chambering and (according to the 2002 Taurus catalog) it is rated for +P ammunition. Taurus makes no mention of the +P in their 2003 catalog.

There are customary and industry standards for +P calibers, such as 38 Special, 9mm, 45 ACP and 257 Roberts but none for 44 Special.

I have no intention of loading and firing anything stronger than the standard loads and strongly suggest that you do the same with your 44 Special chambered 445.

I am going to sell mine and get the Taurus 441 which is engineered and designed to fire the 41 Magnum.

Regards,

 

[JohnK]

There is no way a home reloader can really know for sure what pressures he is loading to in this area.

What he could do though is work up the loads in a 44 Magnum which we know will be safe then send the rounds to Western Powder and have them test them to see what pressure they're running.

http://www.westernpowders.com/pages/lab.htm

It still won't let us know if that load is safe in a 5 shot Taurus though, no matter what the results of the pressure test are.

As it happens I recently did a bunch of load development to see what it takes to get 1,200 fps with a 250 gr Keith in the 44 Special with something other than Keiths load. Tests were fired in 2 M29's and 1 M24. I have no idea if these would be safe in the Taurus.

http://www.handloads.com/articles/44SpecialHeavyLoads.asp