[BIGDAVE54]

MagTech makes a .410 brass shotshell case. Impact and Midway have them and I think Cabellas just started carrying them. They run about $20 for 25. I load them up and just roll up some dryer lint for wads and pack it on top of the powder and another homemade wad on top of the shot. I usually top it off with a layer of hot glue. The last bunch I loaded I plugged with a ball of parafin and then diped them in parafin. My wife is a drafter and gets a little stiffness in her hands. She has a wax system for heat treating her hands. Every few months she gives me about 5 pounds of this wax. The only problem is when I shoot a few rounds I can smell lavender. I have even cut out a milk jug and made a liner and loaded copper coated BBs for shot. It all comes out in the end.

 

[Ralph McLaney]

Update?

Perhaps Marshall or others could provide updated information on this or similar loads for the big little .410 buckshot loads.

As many on this forum know, I love the Savage 24 series of over-under shotgun/rifles. * These combo guns give me a great amount of pleasure and versatility in the field.

My very first of these guns was Savage 24 in .410/.22LR. *It is about as much fun as someone should be allowed to have with a walk around the field gun! *It is one of the older models with the side lever to open the action, and is still in nearly mint condition after many years of continual (but careful) use.

The .22 barrel on this gun shoots better than my eyes can acquire a target, and shoots equally well with .22 shorts and CB's.

I rarely shoot 3" .410 shells in it though, preferring to use the standard 2 1/2" shells loaded with 1/2 oz of shot. *Generally I load 7 1/2 shot for most uses I give the .410, shooting farm/forest pests, grouse, rabbits and such, as the 7 1/2's give an excellent pattern out of my full choke tube. *I also find that a load of 5's do wonders as well.

Both loads use this data:

1/2 oz. shot/WW410 shotcup/WW209 Primer/14.9g WC820 Powder/Remington 2 1/2" .410 hulls/ loaded on Mec 600JrMK5 loader./Results are very gratifying, with a nice even pattern without holes or clusters.

Now, for the load with teeth! *I occasionally run into feral dogs and coyotes when bumming around with the little combo gun, especially in early grouse season here in the Idaho Panhandle. *I like more punch on them than a .22LR if available.

That load is using four .313" roundballs, otherwise known as 00 Buckshot. *These are cast out of our normal bullet alloy, and are not heat-treated, giving a BHN of 12. *Four of these will fit very neatly and snugly in the Winchester .410 shotcup listed above, with plenty of room for a nice, traditional fold crimp. *I use the very same data as the shot load listed above, but substitute the four .313" roundballs for shot. *

After seating the wad on top of the powder with 30 lbs. wad pressure on the Mec Loader, I then add the buckshot one at a time, using common cooking flour for a filler on top of each buckshot, vibrating it into position around the buckshot by means of a vibratory pad sander turned upside-down, and turned on, then just holding the shell upright on the pad util the flour sifts its way down around the flour, adding it in very small amounts until just the top of the buckshot is visible, then adding another, then repeating the flour addition and vibration as described above. *Continue this process until all four buckshot have been added to the shell, and only the top of the last buckshot is just barely visible through the flour that has been vibrated on top of it. *Now, crimp as you would any other shell.

I have used flour in these shells since I developed the load many years ago. *Today Super Grex might be a better alternative, but my load isn't broken yet, so I haven't tried to fix it!

This load. out of the .410 shotguns we own here, will produce a neat, square pattern that is about five inches square with the four buckshot when patterning at 35 yards! *Not bad for a little .410 2 1/2" shotshell. *This load I described punches out the bore at about 1220 fps from our shotguns. *More fire under the charge just blows the pattern apart in my experience.

Now, about on target performance! *This load is really amazing when all four of those 44 grian pills impact a 4"-5" area at once on something the size of a 70-90 pound feral dog! *Out to 45 yards (farthest tested), it is lights out! *No recovered buckshot (remember these are fairly hard), and boiler room hits create nearly instant incapacitation, even on adrenalized critters of this size.

No, this load does not make the .410 bore a kills all! *But it does flex more muscle than it otherwise would. *I would far rather use this four ball load than any slug load in a .410 shotgun!

I remember a well-read publication where the author stated that "using a .410 in the field was either a mistake or a stunt" *This fellow obviously either never carried one afield, or didn't respect the range limitations of the gun. *It can, and is very much a pleasure in the field for the type of applications it was designed to do and an effective partner in the field.

Enjoy giving teeth to your pipsqueak shotgun!

God Bless,

Marshall

 

[unclepaddy]

Ballistic Products has load data for 000 balls in the .410 up 2700 FPS. I tried a couple at close range and they are quite impressive. Haven't had a chance to try any distance yet.

 

[Head Shot]

Hello:
Im interested in brass 410 cases too.
I read where the 444 Marlin case could be used but im having some troubles at the moment anyway of finding 444 brass.
Id be interested in finding even just 5 ct empty 444 marlin brass just to try out loading the brass.
Its my understanding that the 444 marlin brass will fit the 410 shotgun but since the brass internaly is more room due to thin brass over thick plastic hulls that you have a very loose fit for the wads shotcup.
So i was hoping to find just a few to see what i could come up with for a better fit ect.
Shoot id even buy more if i could find it .
Anyone had any experience with brass 410 case reloading that they could add loads they used or other info ect ?
I even read that a 9.3x74R case could be chamber fired to make 410 brass cases but thats even harder for me to find- Oh well ill keep my eyes and ears open cuz they will show up somewhere id think eventualy.
Head Shot

 

[texasred777]

My little .410

My wife gave me a little Stevens 94F .410 for Christmas in 1968. I was in the store where my wife bought the gun a few days after the purchase. I had known the dealer for years. He said he could order a .30/.30 barrel for it if I wanted him to. Man, I wish I'd had the money back then to do so!

I couldn't tell you how many rabbits and squirrels that little gun has brought down. I've used .22s, 20 gauge, 12 gauge, and even a .22 hornet for these critters; but never liked hunting them with anything more than the little 94F.

Since I don't hunt anymore, because of health, I gave the little gun to my son a few years back; but keep it in my room! He can have final possession of it when I'm gone.

 

[Combat Diver]

When growing up in San Antonio I used to use a Savage 24 ES for Texas jackrabbits. Lost it in a fire years ago . Did pick up some Russian Silver Bear brass cased .410 #4 buck loads for it last year. Very reasonable priced at $2.50/5 rds.


CD

 

[Head Shot]

Hello Combat Diver
The russian silver bear 410 buck shot loads you bought = Did you shoot any and if so was the primer a crimped berdan type with the two primer flash holes or just one centered flash hole ?
I saw them on the internet too but wasnt sure if they were reloadable.
I did see some berdan primers for sale but the price on them was sky high and with hazardous shipping fee i lost interest.
But if they are the berdan primer then i was thinking i could maybe carefully drill out the primer and make a primer hole to fit a 209 shotgun primer again.
However just in case anyone else is thinking about drilling out the primer pocket to a 209 primer size then take into consideration that you will lose some inside case capacity as im pretty sure the 209 primer will go further inside the case and if its true others couldnt load all the shot that the load called for then this will make the situation even worse for more shot.
Also im hearing you should use large pistol primers rather than lg rifle primers - Reason given is it was reported that the lg rifle primer has too much ignition that before the powder is properly ignited that the primer actualy pushed the wad and shot forward causing a loose powder chg and then wimpy loads.
The idea of a less potent primer such as the lg pistol was given as a solution as it MIGHT NOT CAUSE THE WAD PUSHED FORWARD BEFORE POWDER PROPERLY BURNT>
It didnt say it corected the issue.
But i believe its more of a get it compressed and hold the compressed load till shot is the answer but that probably would require roll crimping the steel/brass case and thats gunna be tricky and short life the case it self from working the metal so much.
My thought is possibly a much larger primer such as a 209 would actualy ignite the powder chg and push the wad all at the same time and that would create a good shooting load and then could just put card over shot and hot glue to seal the load in the case without trying to roll crimp the case.
So what i need is empty steel / brass 410 cases to do some testing and see what fails and what seems to work.
Think i read they were actualy steel cases with brass coating but that didnt bother me as in reloading them .
Are you saving the 410 steal / brass cases ?
Id sure like to find a few for testing ect.
Then id know what i could and couldnt load ect per my desires .
I hear some cases the normal plastic 410 wad fits too loose and even some say that you cant load all of the lead shot - comments go on and on that im thinking ill just have to try it out and see what is and isnt the situation with my loadings.
Thank You
Head Shot

 

[Combat Diver]

I've still have the few I've fired but can't check them right now as I'm up in IN at a armorers course. I'll check when I get home. Been saving .410 hulls even though I don't reload them yet (only have my Mec 600 Jr in 12) and cast round balls .311/.375 for cap and ball revolvers but use them as buckshot in the 12ga. I'm thinking of using those brass cases with a fiber wad under several .375 RBs!


CD

CD

 

[Outpost75]

With the Magtech brass cases I use 15 grs. of #2400, Buffalo Arms .44 card over powder, two .44-.45 felt wads, then four cast .390" round balls, roll crimping in .308 Win. Seater die with seating stem turned down past shoulder to hold top ball into position to crimp into case mouth. Hits lots harder than 00buck!

 

[Pete D.]

Brass

The problem that I have had with Magtech brass hulls is that - like all drawn brass hulls - the interior diameter is larger than the nominal bore or gauge....so standard components don't work very well.
I have made .410 hulls from .303 British cases.....they work but are shorter than even 2.5" .410 hulls.

The third from the top is a reformed .303 Brit case.
Note the thicker rim on the Brit case....this may be problematic in any given gun.

Outpost: roll crimping the brass hulls.....does the crimp blow out completely when firing? Also.....what is hull life like?
Pete

 

[trapper9260]

The problem that I have had with Magtech brass hulls is that - like all drawn brass hulls - the interior diameter is larger than the nominal bore or gauge....so standard components don't work very well.
I have made .410 hulls from .303 British cases.....they work but are shorter than even 2.5" .410 hulls.

The third from the top is a reformed .303 Brit case.
Note the thicker rim on the Brit case....this may be problematic in any given gun.

Outpost: roll crimping the brass hulls.....does the crimp blow out completely when firing? Also.....what is hull life like?
Pete

I say why roll crimp the brass when you can use overshot cards and then just wax them or use finger nail polish to hold the card in place .Just get a gasket punch the size you need and then the box you get crackers in and cut your cards from that and you save alot .I use over shot cards myself in hulls that looks like will not fold crimp good r when i roll crimp the regular hulls.Before I use cards I just wax the crimp that dose not crimp right and use the hull after.

 

[John Wallace]

Hello:
Im interested in brass 410 cases too.
I read where the 444 Marlin case could be used but im having some troubles at the moment anyway of finding 444 brass.
Id be interested in finding even just 5 ct empty 444 marlin brass just to try out loading the brass.
Its my understanding that the 444 marlin brass will fit the 410 shotgun but since the brass internaly is more room due to thin brass over thick plastic hulls that you have a very loose fit for the wads shotcup.
So i was hoping to find just a few to see what i could come up with for a better fit ect.
Shoot id even buy more if i could find it .
Anyone had any experience with brass 410 case reloading that they could add loads they used or other info ect ?
I even read that a 9.3x74R case could be chamber fired to make 410 brass cases but thats even harder for me to find- Oh well ill keep my eyes and ears open cuz they will show up somewhere id think eventualy.
Head Shot

It would be very useful to have more length than the .44 case. Magtech appear to do a 2½in. .410 case, although there may be errors on their web page. .410 isn't 36 gauge, but about 67 gauge, and they certainly aren't 2½in. in diameter.

Product Search Results

Failing that, 9.3x74R brass, if fireformed, should be even better, since it gives you 2.94in. length. RWS brass is likely to be expensive, but of very high quality which might pay in the long run. It may be available at less cost from Sellier and Bellot. The 9.4mm. Baenziger in Bertram brass is often described as the same as .410, but it is only about 2½in. long. Both of these probably have too much rim thickness, but you don't even have to turn them down. If you have someone make you a dummy chamber with rim recess in a steel block, you can squash the rim thinner in a large engineering vice.

Head diameters are listed as:

.410 .465in.
.303 .455in.
.444 Marlin .470in.
10.3x74R Baenziger .462in.

If you have to do some case thinning without a lathe, I'd suggest a mandrel made to fit an electric screwdriver, and a carpenter's rebate plane.


All conventional shotgun chambers and bores are designed around the old paper cases, so even plastic cases are too thin to make the interior equal the bore size. Plastic wads are designed to take up this difference, and probably would with brass. An exception (and like most, a resurrected old idea) is the current fashion for guns with a larger than standard bore. but so far as I know this hasn't extended to .410s, and certainly not to fairly old ones.

The old brass cases were sometimes (not always) used in special guns with a bore very close to chamber diameter. With conventional guns they sometimes (not always) had a glued in paper liner to reduce that step down to bore diameter. It was considered unwise to use unlined brass cased rounds with a conventional bore, but I haven't heard of mishaps from it. If you do this with non-sleeve wads, I would make sure they are soft felt or fibre, and I would roll the edges lightly in lube, not saturate the whole wad with the stuff. You would need card wads to make the seal, as poor patterns will result if gas leaks among the shot.

Conventional shotgun rounds depend for consistency of ballistics, on consistency of the pressure required to push out the roll or star crimp. That slightly oversized main wad might compensate for the absence of this tension. Certainly one very effective way of making something consistent is to make it zero, and on overshot wad lightly held by adhesive or wax comes close to that.

Some of the early brass cases were loaded with a sort of loose star-crimp formed by four indentations at the mouth, holding an overshot card. Most of us would prefer to avoid this, with expensive brass, so we can lightly glue the top wad. I'd use heat-melting glue-sticks. The overshot wad must be as flimsy as will do the job. Doughnut patters were common if the wad remained intact in the middle of the shot stream.

I think the people who say the use of the .410 in the field is a mistake or a stunt, are right some of the time. All shotguns, if the choke is equal, throw a pattern of about the same diameter, and at about the same velocity. The .410 will produce bird-sized gaps at ranges you would want to shoot birds. But where rabbits break cover at seven or eight yards and find other cover at twenty, there is nothing better for taking a quick shot and recovering an unminced rabbit.