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Any thoughts? What will your walk be like in the coming times. Could we or you see yourself in this predicament. Would you be a gun toting, knife waving, ninja in the jihad for Jesus? Was it just enertainment or were the ideas and or ideals of truth?! Can, would or should we be willing or going to that extreme to preserve the Gospels and our Bibles, and our Christian beliefs?!:confused:
 

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Jeepers! Why don't you ask a challenging question?

I will have to read and get back to you... Long time since I was caught flat footed.
 

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I can't imagine a time more hard or terrifying than the latter part of the first century AD. Christians died by the thousands and were martyred for their faith. Read the book of Revelations and see the honor given to the martyrs that are killed during the end times. The apostle Peter was to be crucified and he asked to be hung upside-down so as not to detract from the glory of his Lord. These saints realized that a bloodbath is not that way to glorify God.

Gun toting, knife waving, ninjas in the jihad for Jesus isn't the Biblical model, so it won't be mine either.
 

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huh? Where are the bad people who need hugs?

Gun toting, knife waving, ninjas in the jihad for Jesus isn't the Biblical model, so it won't be mine either.
So Gods people never took up arms against anyone? David did nothing? So is the Bible just about love and pink light and hugs. Sorry to say but the biblical model supports great death and violence. How does the flood fit your model? What Bible do you have? There is No book of Revelations, in most Bibles!
Everything you said sounds great until, raping and pillaging and evil comes knocking.

You mean to tell us with all those guns your going to sit back and do nothing. Did you see the movie? Have you ever felt glad when evil losses and God and justice prevails? Seems there was a story when his people were commanded to kill a whole tribe or race, man, woman, child , even their animals. Were they punished for not listening and wandering around in BFE, literally.

For sure it is a dilemma and a tough question. Man through out history has had a hard time with the "quote-biblical model". That is why we are knee deep in the sespool were in. We are not killing the people that God has asked us too. :eek: And before you freak out, look at all the jails full of....

So your right we should be throwing rocks and crucifying people?
 
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So Gods people never took up arms against anyone? David did nothing? So is the Bible just about love and pink light and hugs. Sorry to say but the biblical model supports great death and violence. How does the flood fit your model? What Bible do you have? There is No book of Revelations, in most Bibles!
Everything you said sounds great until, raping and pillaging and evil comes knocking.

You mean to tell us with all those guns your going to sit back and do nothing. Did you see the movie? Have you ever felt glad when evil losses and God and justice prevails? Seems there was a story when his people were commanded to kill a whole tribe or race, man, woman, child , even their animals. Were they punished for not listening and wandering around in BFE, literally.

For sure it is a dilemma and a tough question. Man through out history has had a hard time with the "quote-biblical model". That is why we are knee deep in the sespool were in. We are not killing the people that God has asked us too. :eek: And before you freak out, look at all the jails full of....

So your right we should be throwing rocks and crucifying people?
Was the movie that impressive?

before you get ahead of yourself, understand that rapist, murderers, and robbers make up a very small percentage ( 8% ) of all felons, so if all these people were excecuted which in certain murder cases would not be right ( dad tracking down the scumbag who raped his daughter and killing him is a murderer) some robbers are young and dumb, and have a chance to turn there lives around, but for the sake of argument i will lump them all up ( murderers, rapos, robbers) if all these people were executed, our prison population would decrease less than 10%.

The united states has the highest percentage of its population behind bars than any other nation on earth.

16% of all people in prisons are mentally ill, (this is a conservative estimate, could be as high as 30%)

Anyway just thought i would post that, seems like you were suggesting we should be executing all our prisoners, as if that was the problem. FYI i do support the execution of all rapos, and molestors.

and i suppose to throw in some food for thought i will mention that 5.5 million felons in the united stated have lost the right to bear arms, and vote, of which only 8% have raped murderd or robbed.
 

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16% of all people in prisons are mentally ill, (this is a conservative estimate, could be as high as 30%)
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I disagree. I think nearer to 100% of all people in prisons are mentally ill. Never been in jail, but I had a friend who was a guard in one for a lot of years...they can't be fun. If you've KNOWINGLY done something worth landing you in jail, I would suggest you are mentally ill.

Just as an example (though I know, it's rather extreme)...a lady was killed in Edmonton on Monday. Another one of those "suicide by cops" cases. They said they believe she was mentally ill. Then, as if to justify her "mental illness", they went on to explain that she had stopped taking her medications. I think this is an awfully pathetic excuse. I know, I know...depressed people do crazy things. But imagine, for a second just how off your rocker you would have to be to truly not even THINK that advancing on police with a handgun drawn (in this case, a SoftAir gun spray painted black) will not get you shot.
 

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I disagree. I think nearer to 100% of all people in prisons are mentally ill. Never been in jail, but I had a friend who was a guard in one for a lot of years...they can't be fun. If you've KNOWINGLY done something worth landing you in jail, I would suggest you are mentally ill.

Just as an example (though I know, it's rather extreme)...a lady was killed in Edmonton on Monday. Another one of those "suicide by cops" cases. They said they believe she was mentally ill. Then, as if to justify her "mental illness", they went on to explain that she had stopped taking her medications. I think this is an awfully pathetic excuse. I know, I know...depressed people do crazy things. But imagine, for a second just how off your rocker you would have to be to truly not even THINK that advancing on police with a handgun drawn (in this case, a SoftAir gun spray painted black) will not get you shot.
I disagree with you, did you know in 2005 texas alone had 5,500 people in its prisons that were DWI offenders.

Youd do realize, one in every hundred people in the country are in prison?

There are many laws that conflict with the constitution, are the people who violate these laws mentally ill?

The reason i mentioned the statistic on the mentally ill is because, many of these people should be in mental wards, not prisons.

Anyway, if you are correct, then we as a nation have the highest rate of insanity on the planet.
 

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I'd believe it...I've known some Americans ;)

...Kidding...BUT...I still think it takes some awfully messed in the head people to be drinking and driving. What's wrong, they didn't see the ads?

As for the folks who ended up there due to a law conflicting with the constitution, fine, I see your point there, and that's also why I said nearer 100% than just saying 100%. But how many of those folks are in prison for a "constitutionally just" cause?
 

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Well...

Dave. I really am afraid of your question. I just read what God said to Eli. I am still trying to get to the root of your question. Let me say a vew things, please.

1) I am not sure that you are asking that wew start a shooting war.
2) I hope to never have to go back to bearing arms.
3) I am willing and able to stand the gap.
4) As I ponder, I am thinking of the hymn "Whever He Leads, I'll Go"

As a believer, I am struck with Romans 14:23b "whatever is not done from faith is sin." When I see the continual bashing and badgering that are so prevalent, I am riled beyond reason. My problem.

I know that there is a time to write and a time to fight. Whatever that looks like at any given time and place, I sincerely hope that God looks on it with the same pleasure as the sacrifice that Noah gave after leaving the ark. Gen 9:21 says that Noah's ascrifice was a "soothing aroma to the Lord".
 

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Was the movie that impressive?

before you get ahead of yourself, understand that rapist, murderers, and robbers make up a very small percentage ( 8% ) of all felons, so if all these people were excecuted which in certain murder cases would not be right ( dad tracking down the scumbag who raped his daughter and killing him is a murderer) some robbers are young and dumb, and have a chance to turn there lives around, but for the sake of argument i will lump them all up ( murderers, rapos, robbers) if all these people were executed, our prison population would decrease less than 10%.

The united states has the highest percentage of its population behind bars than any other nation on earth.

16% of all people in prisons are mentally ill, (this is a conservative estimate, could be as high as 30%)

Anyway just thought i would post that, seems like you were suggesting we should be executing all our prisoners, as if that was the problem. FYI i do support the execution of all rapos, and molestors.

and i suppose to throw in some food for thought i will mention that 5.5 million felons in the united stated have lost the right to bear arms, and vote, of which only 8% have raped murderd or robbed.


So here it is.... we Americans, people in general seem to love the Grey areas. We need to have less empathy for the crooks, we need to have more accountability from people. We had a post here before that said "if people cannot be trusted with a gun they shouldn't be walking the streets." We need to punish the wicked. We need to have public executions? WE need to have it so people know that this is what happens if your a dastardly jerko. We need to establish a black and a white resolution and then we can spend the money on some of the Grey issues. Why should the government spend our tax dollars supporting a "non-member" of society? Why spend 50k on a jerk raper or murderer? Why not spend it on the needy or helpless (widows and children), Heck even spend it on you or me. Why should we house the non contributors. If the capital crime co-miters are killed then ? You said 8% and included robbers. Lets just say ten for easy math. Thats 10% less we are paying for or having to worry about? So kill those. Speedy but fair trial, ask them to make peace with their maker, followed buy a swift hanging. 10% what to do about the other 90% how about kill them or let them go? Mental is not an excuse to keep a murders or rapist alive!
Like you said,"The united states has the highest percentage of its population behind bars than any other nation on earth." Are we retarded or what, that to me is the mentally ill part of it all. What happend to chain gangs and bustin rocks? Why not hard physical labor to contribute or pay there way? No vehicle plates or making jeans. Work them like slaves and have them earn their food, shelter and clothing. Make them so tired they won't fight each other or the guards. No TV, or working out, or smokes, or law school, or education in jail. Are we dumb? The crooks get out and are more crookier than when they went in, now ther are trained crooks, they graduated crook school and now are better than before and we paid for it. If your crime is that bad then what, Robbery chop off hands or pay restitution to the victum. How is it the courts get all the money and the victims get squat? The whole thing is a mess that need fixed and we are miles away from a biblical model for sure. PM if you want to contiue this, I am more than happy to share from the soap box, LOL
 

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Your a dad right! and the movie

(dad tracking down the scumbag who raped his daughter and killing him is a murderer)
The man should be given a medal. Consensual sex of high school kids is a Grey. We as parents should bring up our kids correctly and should be teaching sex is a thing reserved for wed-lock. Reinstate the Chasity belt? To make this less of a Grey topic, how about we focus on the umpteenth time or repeat offender. Kill them! period! If we can't get it done and dads is willing, give the man a gun and a badge?
The movie was great to me. I like to see justice. I liked the fact that he did what "God" asked of him. I was surprised that "Holly-weird" made any move that showed the importance of God to any one! (The last good God type movie from them was the Passion of the Christ. This ain't close in that light!) I was just excited that they showed a man who didn't want to fight, but when evil came near he vanquished it, with out hesitation he had measured his resolve and with out question knew what had to be done. Period. Jesus(as a man in the flesh) had a different approach and model as T-boned mentioned. I personally don't see that as the Biblical approach, I see it as the Jesus in the flesh approach. We could discuss him as God killing this and killing that but I'll skip it. I am a father and man of God, sinner who chases after the need to be clean by the blood of righteous Jesus. I too get tempted repay evil for evil, but I see preservation of life and self defense of family and friends, and the week and the meek and helpless my job as well, If I love my neighbor should I not do that? I will not kill a man for sport. The best part of the movie was that good was the winner and this time it lined up in a way that showed the importance of God,(in my mind)
Their is nothing wrong with what T-bone said or what you said! You guys have valid point and I can see where your coming from. I just feel we are week as a society and fooling ourselves. For you to say what you said as Christians I can respect that, as your lead of the Lord(right:D). I'm just tired of people not willing to stand up for GOOD and what is right! We have all kind of people who will stand up for the 2ND amendment and do what ever it takes and for Jesus the take a back seat or hide their head in the sand!:mad:
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Sorrry! Did I say it was a movie? oooopssss

Jeepers! Why don't you ask a challenging question?

I will have to read and get back to you... Long time since I was caught flat footed.
Well...

Dave. I really am afraid of your question. I just read what God said to Eli. I am still trying to get to the root of your question. Let me say a vew things, please.

1) I am not sure that you are asking that wew start a shooting war.
2) I hope to never have to go back to bearing arms.
3) I am willing and able to stand the gap.
4) As I ponder, I am thinking of the hymn "Whever He Leads, I'll Go"

As a believer, I am struck with Romans 14:23b "whatever is not done from faith is sin." When I see the continual bashing and badgering that are so prevalent, I am riled beyond reason. My problem.

I know that there is a time to write and a time to fight. Whatever that looks like at any given time and place, I sincerely hope that God looks on it with the same pleasure as the sacrifice that Noah gave after leaving the ark. Gen 9:21 says that Noah's ascrifice was a "soothing aroma to the Lord".
1) I am not sure that you are asking that we start a shooting war.Will you or would you if it was necessary or ask by GOD?
2) I hope to never have to go back to bearing arms.I hate to take human lives, in war and other times there is no choice
3) I am willing and able to stand the gap.Amen! That's all that really matters
4) As I ponder, I am thinking of the hymn "Where ever He Leads, I'll Go" PSALM 23
 

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Since this is in crosswire I asume we are looking at the Biblical prospectives.

First off the Old Testament dealt with the physical relationship with God... The laws, sacrifices, offerings, Levitical priesthood all pointed to Christ for fillment. Hebrews 1:1-2

The New Testament is the new covenant in Christ's blood. Where as the law was the ministry of death, condemation and that which was passing away. 2Corthinians 3:7,9&11. The believers are ministers of the new covenant, not of the law but of the Spirit. The law kills but the Spirit gives life. 2Corinthians 3:6

The second point Christians are instructed to obey all of man's laws except for when they are in conflict with God. Acts 4:18. Things like self defense, serving in the military, paying taxes and capitol punishment are not contrary to God's law. Luke 20:25; 1Peter 2:13-17. There is also a command to be armed. Luke 22:36, But also a warning, "those who live by the sword will die by the sword" Matthew 26:52.

The third point as Christians our battle is Spiritual. Just as the apostles layed their lives down for Christ rather than deny him, we are called to do the same. We are not called to kill for Christ since our home isn't in this world. 2Corinthians 4:11,14,16-18.
 

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So Gods people never took up arms against anyone? David did nothing? So is the Bible just about love and pink light and hugs. Sorry to say but the biblical model supports great death and violence. How does the flood fit your model? What Bible do you have? There is No book of Revelations, in most Bibles!
Everything you said sounds great until, raping and pillaging and evil comes knocking.

You mean to tell us with all those guns your going to sit back and do nothing. Did you see the movie? Have you ever felt glad when evil losses and God and justice prevails? Seems there was a story when his people were commanded to kill a whole tribe or race, man, woman, child , even their animals. Were they punished for not listening and wandering around in BFE, literally.

For sure it is a dilemma and a tough question. Man through out history has had a hard time with the "quote-biblical model". That is why we are knee deep in the sespool were in. We are not killing the people that God has asked us too. :eek: And before you freak out, look at all the jails full of....

So your right we should be throwing rocks and crucifying people?
Perhaps I didn't word my response correctly. I am against a jihad - a war to convert to Christianity. However, I am also trying to be obediant to "turn the other cheek". I do not think that turn the other cheek means we should allow ourselves to be doormats and not defend ourselves - whether in self-defense or as a country. Why was Peter carrying a sword when the soldiers came to take Jesus? The Scriptural context is one of religious persecution. That is why Jesus told him to put away his sword because Jesus was going to fulfill His purpose and die on the cross for our sins. Would you have prevented Jesus from going with the soldiers for your sense of justice?

I guess I just object to the term Jihad for Jesus. By the way any other response I would have to some of your comments have been well answered by MontyF and ForestDaveGump.

BTW, when God commanded the nation of Israel to kill a whole nation when they were taking the promised land, it was to protect the Jews from the corrupt influence of that thoroughly evil people. God was exacting justice on that nation and they would later be a huge problem for Israel because Saul didn't follow God's commandment completely. That was a specific circumstance. Could it happen again? Sure, and if God were to command it, I will go, and I'll take my vz58 if He'll let me.

However, I have to take the whole counsel of God into account and be obediant to His command to turn the other cheek when presecuted for my faith, regardless of my desire for justice. Vengeance is the Lord's not mine.
 

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Jihad is a word used to define "struggle" or "holy war" it has become an term we are way to sensitive of. Jihad used with and in the Qur'an/Koran bring about a spiritual revolution in the world.
You object to the term Jihad(pick you name for war) for Jesus? Why? Jihad for Allah or whoever is alright! Are we to think that the Bible is a lie and that, in the times of the Bible and or the time of the return of Jesus, that there will not be a "struggle" or "holy war" or that a spiritual revolution will be brought about? We are fools to believe that Jesus will return to embrace the world as it is. Will we conform to the ways and will of Jesus/God or will we burn in an eternal lake of fire or ****? It is very clear what happens if we don't do it his way! To think Jesus in not a killer is crazy and unbiblical.

My sense of justice is moot, what I think is a non-issue. Jesus was born, became man, took on our sins, died, was buried, and rose on the 3rd day, and saved us all AMEN! He was also first and foremost our God and King, Lord of Lords, Alpha and Omega. Jesus did what he did to fulfill prophecy.
Would you have prevented Jesus from going with the soldiers for your sense of justice?
NO! Jesus asked or told Peter to put away his sword... after the fact too. Did you catch that! The soldier lost his ear! I believe it was done to further Jesus/Gods point. That he could heal him. What a message to all the soldiers huh. My guy could smite you down, but in any case I can heal you all! Jesus had the power the whole time. Jesus killed Jesus. No one else, and he did it willingly and for us all.
Why was Peter carrying a sword when the soldiers came to take Jesus?
Obviously the 2ND is God given! Proof, Biblical Proof! LOL

About the BTW... God had his people kill alot! Promised land or not, they killed. You say "it was to protect the Jews from the corrupt influence of that thoroughly evil people." Is that so...where are we today? Is God exacting justice on a nation that is disobedient? Again? Are we under corrupt influences to day? Like Israel(then), America has failed to perform and is being judged? The whole counsel of God is a great idea provided its done! Does turn the other cheek, trump any of the ten commandments or better yet loving your neighbor as yourself? My point was that you cannot turn the other cheek on evil and let the minions of Satan and his followers rape and kill, and corrupt our way of lives. We sit back out of fear! Jesus did not! He stood in spite of fear, he was fearless he is GOD! We can all be martyred or killed for his name sake I agree, but..... we are not doing that. We are not hot or cold. We straddle the fence. We are spewed out. We are acting lame and or weak! Why when we have the spirit of Christ Jesus with us? We fear our fellow man more than God. We compromise, every day as individuals and as a nation. We have to be sensitive of political topics(even on this board), we have to fear Political Correctness, Tolerance, we have to fear prayer in schools and Bibles in the work places. Jesus our God is unacceptable and we turn the other cheek daily and run from the righteousness and the narrow path every day. What about speaking boldly as we ought to? What about fear of the lord being the beginning of wisdom. What about loving our neighbors as ourselves? Why can't I love you enough to say I disagree with you and its okay, because I love you enough to stand and say hey brother, check yourself, stay on the path, love God with all your heart, and love me, and help me stay accountable too. Why is everybody hippo-creeps and spewing don't judge lest you be judged? What about going to each other in love and being accountable, we are judging and being judgmental all day, everyday, and pretend were not! Are we to sharpen each other like Iron? We today are more like Silly-putty than putty/clay in the potters hands!

Is that the whole counsel of God? vs Turn the other check; Is that the new church acceptable PC excuse to overlook other verses? Is that more important than other ideas of justice? Why was stoning okay? Why do you think God/Jesus threw down fiery stones from heaven. Why was their flooding an plaques? God stepped in cause we failed. We "turn the other cheek", did we stand, boldly and or fearless with the purpose of Jesus in of hearts and or minds, to be slapped on both sides of our faces. Or have we turned our other cheeks(hind-parts), the lowers ones you can see when we run off like cowards.

You say "By the way any other response I would have to some of your comments have been well answered by MontyF and ForestDaveGump.":confused:
HUH?

The second point Christians are instructed to obey all of man's laws except for when they are in conflict with God. Acts 4:18. Things like self defense, serving in the military, paying taxes and capitol punishment are not contrary to God's law. Luke 20:25; 1Peter 2:13-17. There is also a command to be armed. Luke 22:36, But also a warning, "those who live by the sword will die by the sword" Matthew 26:52.
And as to the warning of the living by the sword and dying by the sword deal, maybe the whole counsel of God on the matter begins with the sword being the word of God? If you begin to research how Jesus compared/s himself to the word, and he is the word, and he is the sword, and he is the water, and he is the light, and he that he is? If all God says is true 100%(which is truth, and true) So now he is truth as well. One needs to ponder and rethink crazy accepted religous teaching and false doctrines we have all been taught. It is the whole counsel of God, to belive God and not man, We are told to check out the bible daily and to prove its word and not take even the writers word, wasn't Paul that said don't beleve my bull check this out?

Back to the Sword. If you live by the Bible, with the Bible, and for Jesus(the word made fleash)(don't forget that) and his Bible(the word) in a sense Jesus is your Bible(and such it should be reverved) Then I'll die! Those that live by Jesus will die by Jesus! So when:
The third point as Christians our battle is Spiritual. Just as the apostles layed their lives down for Christ rather than deny him, we are called to do the same. We are not called to kill for Christ since our home isn't in this world. 2Corinthians 4:11,14,16-18.
MontyF says "But also a warning, "those who live by the sword will die by the sword" Matthew 26:52" ". For this we should all pray. AMEN!
For to die with out him and accept "I am against a jihad - a war to convert to Christianity" We are foolish. We are at war and so is Jesus. Since before man! Are we with him in this fight or not?

MontyF says"The third point as Christians our battle is Spiritual." So if that is true, its is still a fight! A fight we understand less than a war here on earth. If you cannot understand how to physically kill evil on earth, how can you undersatnd spritual warfare? And in Spiritual warfare do we turn the other cheek too?
No we are told this:
Eph 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil 12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places]. 13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. 14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; 15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: 18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints; 19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel, 20 For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.
Sure sounds like a Ninja to me! Jihad or WAR! With Jesus for sure. AND..."a war to convert to Christianity" Thank you Jesus Amen! There should be no other kind of WAR! FOR JESUS THERE IS NOT BUT ONE KIND......"a war to convert to Christianity" Hallelujah
Vengeance is the Lord's not mine.
Rom 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but [rather] give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance [is] mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

Maybe this is because we don't truly use the whole counsel of God? If we can not be trusted with the simple things(MILK/BLACK AND WHITE), why should we be trusted with the more complex(MEAT/GREY)

Does this say to you turn the other cheek? Nah 1:2God [is] jealous, and the LORD revengeth; the LORD revengeth, and [is] furious; the LORD will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth [wrath] for his enemies.
I do not think that turn the other cheek means we should allow ourselves to be doormats and not defend ourselves - whether in self-defense or as a country.
I Like/love you T-Bone I was just getting to this: 2Ti 4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished [my] course, I have kept the faith:
Could it happen again? Sure, and if God were to command it, I will go, and I'll take my vz58 if He'll let me.
Your a good man! I got Trijicon stuff, so I'll bring my "Jesus Guns" LOL
 

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Boondock,

There is no way I can fully respond to your post! You sure ask a lot of questions. :D Better would be to sit down for an evening and hash some of this stuff out with a Bible in hand. I think we have more in common than you may realize. I also think you may have misunderstood a couple of things I said. I tend to make subtle inferences to things that you would probably pick up if we were face to face - like the part where Peter has the sword when the soldiers come. Peter has a sword! Jesus obviously didn't forbid a defensive weapon. I agree that the servants ear was cut off so that Jesus could glorify God in the healing, absolutely.

As to doing things Jesus' way? If Jesus is Lord (He is), and God (He is), just like Thomas said, we had better do things His way!!!!!!

As to Jesus being a pacivist (sp?). I really never said that, and I did not intend to imply it either. I agree that the book of Revelation is quite clear that when Jesus comes the second time, there will be he|| to pay - literally! Add to that the saints being a part of the army. However, I can't ignore parts of the Bible, and it clearly says to turn the other cheek. God is not the author of chaos, so what does it mean? I gave you my take on it.

You did have this question:
About the BTW... God had his people kill alot! Promised land or not, they killed. You say "it was to protect the Jews from the corrupt influence of that thoroughly evil people." Is that so...where are we today? Is God exacting justice on a nation that is disobedient? Again? Are we under corrupt influences to day?
Great question! It deserves a whole series of studies of perhaps a book (or two). Why did God judge these things in the nation of Israel and not today? We ARE under the New Covenant (Testament) now and things are handled a little differently now. For instance we don't have a temple, we have the canon of Scripture, Jesus has come and now we have direct access to God (for believers anyway) and the Levitical priesthood is no longer necessary, etc. I think that God has given us His revelation, He has given us Jesus - at first in person here among us, and later He manifests Himself with us via genuine believers - and God has given believers the Holy Spirit. God now chastens believers directly (instead of just the nation of Israel, who He is not done with BTW), so if a nation continues to rebel He gives them over to their vile passions to destroy themselves (like Rome did).

21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,

23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them.
Anyway, that's all for now. I hope you get a better feel for where I am coming from.


In His service,

Bill
 

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Boondock,

You sure ask a lot of questions. :D Better would be to sit down for an evening and hash some of this stuff out with a Bible in hand. I think we have more in common than you may realize. Peter has a sword! Jesus obviously didn't forbid a defensive weapon. I agree that the servants ear was cut off so that Jesus could glorify God in the healing, absolutely.

As to doing things Jesus' way? If Jesus is Lord (He is), and God (He is), just like Thomas said, we had better do things His way!!!!!!

As to Jesus being a pacivist (sp?). I really never said that, and I did not intend to imply it either. I agree that the book of Revelation is quite clear that when Jesus comes the second time, there will be he|| to pay - literally! Add to that the saints being a part of the army. However, I can't ignore parts of the Bible, and it clearly says to turn the other cheek. God is not the author of chaos, so what does it mean? I gave you my take on it.

I think that God has given us His revelation, He has given us Jesus - at first in person here among us, and later He manifests Himself with us via genuine believers - and God has given believers the Holy Spirit. God now chastens believers directly (instead of just the nation of Israel, who He is not done with BTW), so if a nation continues to rebel He gives them over to their vile passions to destroy themselves (like Rome did).

Anyway, that's all for now. I hope you get a better feel for where I am coming from.

In His service,

Bill
Yeah your fraternal twins, and you get it. Boone busts my chops too, He likes to ask the hard questions and really take the word to mat and wrestle the truth out of it meanings. He is tired of the bull(from the public and the pulpit), so am I, so are you. It is all good, Bill. If alot of the young people had his wisdom(beyond his years) we would be in a better place.
He has great values and attitudes, he won't give up Jesus for nothing. The only thing more important than that to him is nothing. He like others has fought for our freedom and way of life and goes to take the battle to bad men everyday. After God and famliy, freedom and guns....I don't know what is next as thats all we have spoke about! He will talk the Bilble and bullets any day LOL! See your right you got alot in common!
 

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to me it's real simple, ( and personally, I see no reason to make it more complicated ) ... if "they" come for me or mine, they will be DEAD RIGHT THERE. ... end of discussion.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·

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Didn't see the movie, but a thought on my perspective. Most "Americans" do not realize that evil does exist. Least we not forget, Satan was given the dominion of man. Free will was given to us. What is right is right. Who makes the call? In the comming times of tribulation, men & mankind default to the lowest common denominator, predatious survivalaists, with children being the most aggressive and insinctive "Lord of the Flies" any one. Ferel kids, think about it. What are we to do? Who can say? Hoard, one bullet one kill. Don't get me wrong but Charlie Manson & his crew can't be "rehabilitated".
 
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