i saw a bit on tv that was right impressive..only problem with it is id feel under gunned if the gun had .410 shells in it.. this if the bad guy had layered clothes an a winter coat.. i don t see you stopping a drugged up bg unless you made a face shot.. jmo i welcome input as my knowledge is admittedly limited ..slim
the judge..
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I know of two ppl that own one, a guy at my work who has put a good amount of shells through it and had no issues and likes it...
and my friends dad, we went shoooting this weekend and he took it out... it was a POS, the thing would jam, and it wouldn't cycle the cylinder since the shells would bind on the right hand side against the frame, that and the cylinder could be occassionally opened w/ the hammer cocked... there either going to fix it or sell it.
I think it was just a lemon, but I figured I'd throw it out there to make sure you check that your shells cycle before buying it... get some spent 410 and 45colt and bring them w/ when you look at it.
MIke.
and my friends dad, we went shoooting this weekend and he took it out... it was a POS, the thing would jam, and it wouldn't cycle the cylinder since the shells would bind on the right hand side against the frame, that and the cylinder could be occassionally opened w/ the hammer cocked... there either going to fix it or sell it.
I think it was just a lemon, but I figured I'd throw it out there to make sure you check that your shells cycle before buying it... get some spent 410 and 45colt and bring them w/ when you look at it.
MIke.
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I have handled a friend's Judge and think it might make a nice gun for hunting wabbits in heavy cover, but it is too big and heavy for CCW and quite low-powered for its size and weight for use as a defensive weapon in my opinion. Lots of people swear by them and quite a few swear at them. My friend has his for sale after buying a nice S&W .357 snubby and I'm not interested in buying it.
Last weekend I saw one of the short barrel versions at the local range. The owner fired a group with .45 Colt ammo off the bench at 25 yards that surprised me. It was about 2 1/2 inches for five shots and centered on the bullseye. Shotshells are another matter but that revolver is capable of good accuracy with the pistol ammo.
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The judge is a cute concept, but in my opinion they made a mistake by discontinuing their 45 LC snubnose revolvers. I have a friend with an ultralight, and it is good for CCW for those people who believe large bullets are the only acceptable strategy for defense.
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I've got a Total Titanium Taurus 450 in .45 Colt - weighs in at 19 ounces and +P rated. So far it has been rock solid but I shoot fairly mild rounds - 255 grain SWC with 9.2 grains of Unique. Really need to check it on the chronograph - I'm expecting somewhere around 900 fps or less. Regardless, that is a whole lot of power potential in a sub-20 ounce revolver.
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slim60 I have heard good and bad about this weapon, just like any other fairly new weapon. What i do know is that bird shot is for birds and buck shot is for bucks two or four legged. I think it would be a dandy trail gun , but choose something more lethal than bird shot to save my hide.
Mine is the 4 inch barrel lightweight and is rock solid. Federal packages a box of 20 rounds in 2.5 inch that has four 000 pellets and I was pretty impressed shooting those at a 4x8 piece of 1/2 inch plywood at about 20 feet or so. Not so much the holes in the plywood, but the 8 to 10 feet of furrows it plowed in the ground on the back side.
I couldn't tell a lot of difference in recoil shooting a LC round versus the 2.5 inch shotgun shell, but son in law (who carries a Glock .45 on duty ) says the shot shell kicked a little harder than the 300 grain silver tip hp we were testing.
I had no problem tucking it iwb when making a quick run to the local shop n rob or pumping gas. With no holster, it is a tad bulky carrying around walmart.
I kept it loaded with the Federal 000 rounds.
Sadly, I showed it to a visiting Uncle and he took such a liking to it I let him have it after he started peeling off hunnerd dollar bills. He has been so generous to my widowed mother it was one of those things I couldn't say no to.
I am definitely on the search for another one. Maybe in a 3 inch and stainless, this time, as well as a lightweight.
i know very little about ballistics for pistol cartridges and am confused when people say it is under powered. Sure, the shot shell isn't going to travel as far, but comparing the LC to a .45 acp. Doesn't long versus short make the LC a stronger cartridge?
And the spongy rubber grip made recoil a non issue for me.
I couldn't tell a lot of difference in recoil shooting a LC round versus the 2.5 inch shotgun shell, but son in law (who carries a Glock .45 on duty ) says the shot shell kicked a little harder than the 300 grain silver tip hp we were testing.
I had no problem tucking it iwb when making a quick run to the local shop n rob or pumping gas. With no holster, it is a tad bulky carrying around walmart.
I kept it loaded with the Federal 000 rounds.
Sadly, I showed it to a visiting Uncle and he took such a liking to it I let him have it after he started peeling off hunnerd dollar bills. He has been so generous to my widowed mother it was one of those things I couldn't say no to.
I am definitely on the search for another one. Maybe in a 3 inch and stainless, this time, as well as a lightweight.
i know very little about ballistics for pistol cartridges and am confused when people say it is under powered. Sure, the shot shell isn't going to travel as far, but comparing the LC to a .45 acp. Doesn't long versus short make the LC a stronger cartridge?
And the spongy rubber grip made recoil a non issue for me.
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Not to hijack this thread, but:
1. If your weapon is properly concealed, a store's policy is irrelevant.
2. In general, a store (which is private property) has only one recourse for violation of store policy, which is to ask you to leave, and if you refuse, to charge you with trespassing. Only the police have the right to detain you.
3. In many states, stores may post signs prohibiting CCW. If they fail to post signs, or in states that do not give lawful validity to posted signs, the individual's right supersedes the store's wishes (beyond asking you to leave).
4. Walmart as a whole has been relatively pro-gun. I have never seen a sign posted at a Walmart prohibiting firearms, even in states that allow stores to post signs prohibiting them.
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I know a person who was asked to leave a Walmart, maybe it was the managers option but I thought he said it was their policy.
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As far as power is concerned, for me it is a matter of size and weight vs. power. Yes, the .410 buckshot loads will make lots of holes in a target, but each of those projectiles is about as powerful as a .32 S&W (short) round, maybe less. So you have multiple hits going for you, but those hits might not penetrate well enough if the attacker is large or heavily clothed. Also, as range increases, the pattern gets bigger and you start missing with some of the buckshot and hitting around the edges with others.
The .45 Colt rounds are certainly nothing to sneeze at, but most of the factory loads commonly available are low velocity rounds and probably less effective than a good .357 round that can be used in a much smaller and handier (and probably more accurate) package. For all practical purposes the .45 ACP and .45 Long Colt are identical in power, except the Long Colt cartridge can be had in more powerful loads in certain guns such as Ruger and Freedom Arms revolvers designed for hunting. In those specialized guns it can be even more powerful than a .44 Magnum. However, the Judge is not rated for such loads as far as I can determine the issue is moot with it.
You would certainly not be helpless if armed with one, but it is a big, clunky revolver that would be uncomfortable to carry and difficult to conceal compared to a "true" CCW weapon and is bigger and heavier than a .44 Magnum with only about half or less of the power.
If you like it and carry it, I won't argue, but as far as I am concerned the disadvantages are many and advantages nil.
The .45 Colt rounds are certainly nothing to sneeze at, but most of the factory loads commonly available are low velocity rounds and probably less effective than a good .357 round that can be used in a much smaller and handier (and probably more accurate) package. For all practical purposes the .45 ACP and .45 Long Colt are identical in power, except the Long Colt cartridge can be had in more powerful loads in certain guns such as Ruger and Freedom Arms revolvers designed for hunting. In those specialized guns it can be even more powerful than a .44 Magnum. However, the Judge is not rated for such loads as far as I can determine the issue is moot with it.
You would certainly not be helpless if armed with one, but it is a big, clunky revolver that would be uncomfortable to carry and difficult to conceal compared to a "true" CCW weapon and is bigger and heavier than a .44 Magnum with only about half or less of the power.
If you like it and carry it, I won't argue, but as far as I am concerned the disadvantages are many and advantages nil.
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Agree, if it's concealed, and not prohibited by lawful signage... carry and don't think twice about it. Just keep it concealed.
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One consideration when carrying in a place where you might be subject to a trespass charge is that in states where the "Duty to Retreat" (Castle Doctrine") has been repealed lately, the wordage of the law normally states that you do not have a duty to retreat if you are in a place where you have a lawful right to be. If you are a trespasser, you are not in such a place and you would therefore have a duty to retreat rather than use lethal force, if you can safely do so. If you were to stand your ground and meet force with force, you could be in more trouble than mere trespass.
From dealing with Wal-mart managers at work, they have a tremendous amount of leeway on rules/behavior. They may ignore a person carrying a weapon or call the police at their discretion. At least resulting in a delay in your shoping. Be careful wahtever you do.
Don
Don
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It would be an extremely rare justifiable self-defense scenario that exceeds the effective range of even a .410 shotshell with birdshot. But for those rare ones, you would probably rather have the added penetration of a single projectile fired from a major cartridge.
I am also not a fan of keeping track of more than one projectile, as the shooter is responsible for where every single one goes. Not all bad guys attack with a suitable backstop behind them. And heaven forbid you are ever faced with a hostage scenario and your only option is a shotgun!
That said, the shotshell can have an advantage for some, as misses and overpenetrating shots will cause far less damage after the effective range.
I am also not a fan of keeping track of more than one projectile, as the shooter is responsible for where every single one goes. Not all bad guys attack with a suitable backstop behind them. And heaven forbid you are ever faced with a hostage scenario and your only option is a shotgun!
That said, the shotshell can have an advantage for some, as misses and overpenetrating shots will cause far less damage after the effective range.
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Same concept, but more along the lines of the S&W/Taurus style and functioning. Also, much more received as it was from a major manufacturer and well-marketed.
The Thunder Five also had a California-legal version that was in .45-70 Gov't instead of .410 Shotshell, basically a BFR snubbie!
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