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Which 25 ACP are you shooting?

  • Berretta

    Votes: 16 23.9%
  • BJJA (Bryco/Jennings/Jimenez Arms)

    Votes: 4 6.0%
  • Browning/Colt

    Votes: 12 17.9%
  • Cobra

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • NAA

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Raven

    Votes: 9 13.4%
  • Seekamp

    Votes: 1 1.5%
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    Votes: 1 1.5%
  • Other

    Votes: 25 37.3%

  • Total voters
    67
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Discussion Starter #81
Ranch Dog,
Would you consider Designing an extended "TL255" type Bullet for about 63-67 grains?
Perhaps adding one Driving band and Lube groove to the original design would get it close to that?
I think it would make a Good replacement to use in my 'Mildcat' .25ALS; similar to the old .25 Stevens RF round's 67 grain bullet but updated.

Perhaps its heavier weight would give another Incentive To further develop the .25ACP as a "+P" cartridge or at least as a stronger striking force cartridge?

Best Regards,
Chev. William
I'm tied up right now with my fall planting. I have an obligation ahead of you for NOE and once that is clear I will look at your recommendations. Probably... 10 days yet.

I'm running my coon trap lines, hold traps, and I can tell you that the lead flat nose works a lot better than the Gold Dot. With the lead, they are dead immediately not with the GD. These are headshots at about 15'. Maybe the GDs are made for something tougher like a human?
 

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I'm tied up right now with my fall planting. I have an obligation ahead of you for NOE and once that is clear I will look at your recommendations. Probably... 10 days yet.

I'm running my coon trap lines, hold traps, and I can tell you that the lead flat nose works a lot better than the Gold Dot. With the lead, they are dead immediately not with the GD. These are headshots at about 15'. Maybe the GDs are made for something tougher like a human?
RE: the 35 grain Gold Dot Bullet.
My personal opinion is that it was designed to allow increased Muzzle Velocity within the .25ACP stated Pmax MAP limits.
Unfortunately, I further believe, a 45 to 50 grain version would work better at killing Trapped Animals than the 35 grain version.

Also, I think that a 60 to 70 grain Flat or Hollow Point design in a "+P", or even a "+P+", loading would be Much more effective, PROVIDED the Firearm is designed and tuned for its use.

I have no means to measure pressure, especially on my Custom Ruger Single Eight. I do know from comparison testing that my revolver looses about 2.1 percent MV compared to Factory Ratings for .25ACP PPU cartridges.

I have not yet fired my 3.0 grain load of BE-86 behind a 63 Lead FP bullet across a chronograph.
But I think it is both faster and would be a much more effective Self Defense Cartridge. than the stock .25ACP.

Best Regards,
Chev. William
 

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Discussion Starter #83
Here you go, Chev. I don't recall the greater diameter you were looking for so I just did the drawing at the original .255".
 

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Ranch Dog,
The TL255 Diameters Are What I asked for as I am Sizing to fit my Lothar Walther barrel dimensions (LW states theri Manufacturing Tolerance is .001") so groove diameters are spec'ed .250" with a +.001" Tolerance.

Thank you Very Much for This Design, I am gong to copy it to the NOE Group buy Forum as an addendum to my request to Investigate what the Machine Program would require to add the added length and weight.

Best Regards,
Chev. William
PS: I had to use Photobucket.com to get the Drawing to reproduce on the NOE forum post. It is now up on photobucket as:
"
". Chev. William
 

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Ranch dog,
Have you considered the Hornady #2510 60 grain Jacketed Soft Flat nose .257" diameter bullet for Resizing down to fit your Pistol bores?

I have sized some (one box of 100) down to .250" diameter via multiple Lee Lube and Size Kits with apparently good results.

Here is a photo of some Hornady #2510 in various "Mildcat Cases; the left cartridge is a .25ACP (case length .612") at a Overall Length of .905".
The Other cases lengths are .960", 1.055" adn 1.125"


Best Regards,
Chev. William
 

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Discussion Starter #86
Answered in your other topic. No, I haven't, need a .255" bullet and happy with my design.
 

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Discussion Starter #87
Ranch Dog,
The TL255 Diameters Are What I asked for as I am Sizing to fit my Lothar Walther barrel dimensions (LW states theri Manufacturing Tolerance is .001") so groove diameters are spec'ed .250" with a +.001" Tolerance.

Thank you Very Much for This Design, I am gong to copy it to the NOE Group buy Forum as an addendum to my request to Investigate what the Machine Program would require to add the added length and weight.

Best Regards,
Chev. William
PS: I had to use Photobucket.com to get the Drawing to reproduce on the NOE forum post. It is now up on photobucket as:
"
". Chev. William
Sounds good.
 

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When I had one it was a Raven. After attempting to kill a dog with it, (about 40 years ago) I swore I'd never own or shoot another one unless it had a string on it to swing like a club.
 

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When I had one it was a Raven. After attempting to kill a dog with it, (about 40 years ago) I swore I'd never own or shoot another one unless it had a string on it to swing like a club.
Laughing'
Might I suggest Three, tied by Three separate Strings joined together and used like A South American Bolo? Hold on to one and Swing the other two in a Circle then Release To fly toward the target.

Best Regards,
Chev. William
 

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Laughing'
Might I suggest Three, tied by Three separate Strings joined together and used like A South American Bolo? Hold on to one and Swing the other two in a Circle then Release To fly toward the target.

Best Regards,
Chev. William
Good idea. First useful post about a 25acp that I think I've ever read!
 

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Yes, Otasan, that TL255-65-RF IS A GOOD Design Bullet.
Ranch dog says he has killed many Trapped Feral Hogs at 21 feet with its 50 grain older Brother.

I am thinking the 65 Grain will work well in my 'Mildcats' IF I can get a mold made AND get a commercial Caster to run The bullets for me, as I do NOT currently own Lead casting Equipment and my financial position precludes me obtaining that capability in the near future.

I did receive an order of Lyman #257420 bullets From "Matt's Bullets" (1000) to resize Down to .251"diameter for Testing in my 'Mildcats'. They arrived Lubed and Sized to .257+" already so they have been 'Normalized' already. (PS: They weigh about 73 to 74 grains each!)

For My Stevens Favorite CF converted 25 Stevens rifle, I will be working up a load to yield about 1100fps muzzle Velocity which is about where the original Black Powder RF loads were reported Yielding. (PS: I May need to drop the Velocity as they are Heavier than Advertised by Lyman.)

My 1915 Action has a Breech Block that, in battery, bears tightly on the Rear Shoulders of the Receiver so it is slightly more robust than the typical Production run Stevens RF 'Favorite' rifle.

Separately, I will be working up a Load for my Ruger Single Eight to about a calculated 25,000psi Pmax MAP which should be a more vigorous Performing load even out of my 10-5/8" barrel.

Best Regards,
Chev. William
 

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Yes, Otasan, that TL255-65-RF IS A GOOD Design Bullet.
Ranch dog says he has killed many Trapped Feral Hogs at 21 feet with its 50 grain older Brother.

I am thinking the 65 Grain will Work well in my 'Mildcats' IF I can get a mold made AND get a commercial Caster to run The bullets for me, as I do NOT currently own Lead casting Equipment and my financial position precludes me obtaining that capability in the near future.

I did receive an order of Lyman #257420 bullets From "Matt's Bullets" (1000) to resize Down to .251"diameter for Testing in my 'Mildcats'. They arrived Lubed and Sized to .257+" already so they have been 'Normalized' already. (PS: They weigh about 73 to 74 grains each!)

For My Stevens Favorite CF converted 25 Stevens rifle, I will be working up a load to yield about 1100fps muzzle Velocity which is about where the original Black Powder RF loads were reported Yielding. (PS: I May need to drop the Velocity as they are Heavier than Advertised by Lyman.)

My 1915 Action has a Breech Block that, in battery, bears tightly on the Rear Shoulders of the Receiver so it is slightly more robust than the typical Production run Stevens RF 'Favorite' rifle.

Separately, I will be working up a Load for my Ruger Single Eight to about a calculated 25,000psi Pmax MAP which should be a more vigorous Performing load even out of my 10-5/8" barrel.

Best Regards,
Chev. William
I am going to resume casting bullets after a four-year layoff.
 

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Here is the First CALCULATED But NOT YET TESTED Load Data For .25ACP using my fresh Matt's Bullets Lyman 257420 lubed and Sized 74 Grain .251" Diameter bullets that come out at .610 Long and plan to be loaded to .905" +.005" Overall Cartridge Length.

25 ACP+P (Ruger revolver) 251 74gr Pb 257420 RFN Power Pistol Curves 25,000psi Pmax MAP
WARNING By Software Vendor:
WARNING: Since we have no control over equipment or data which may be used with this program, no responsibility is implied or assumed for results obtained through its use. Input data and results may be incorrect or wrong. Therefore the use of this data for loading ammunition can cause serious injury to personnel and material. The computer-results had to be checked against data available in current loading manuals.

LOT-TO-LOT VARIATIONS OF POWDERS, PRIMER SUBSTITUTION AND COMPONENT CHANGE OFTEN RAISE PRESSURES TO UNSAFE LEVELS. THE USER MUST ASSUME THE ENTIRE RISK OF USING THIS DATA FOR LOADING PURPOSES.
QuickLOAD© V.3.8.02 #534699, © Copyright 1987-2013 - H.Broemel, Babenhausen, Germany

User Data:
Date:11-Nov-2017 Time:18:09:08
File: 25acp+p 74gr pb rfn bullseye (6.35 ruger revolver) Curves. Comment .25ACP+P 74 grain Pb 257420 @.905" OAL and 25,000psi Pmax MAP curves.
Cartridge / Caliber .25 ACP (6.35 Browning) Bullet .251, 74, Lyman Pb #257420 size .251".
Maximum Average Pressure, allowed 25000 psi. 1724 bar (Piezo CIP) with flatbase
Groove Caliber 0.251 in. 6.38 mm Bullet Weight 74.0 gr. 4.8 gm
Case Capacity, overflow 6.7 gr. H2O 0.435 cm³ Bullet Length 0.610 in. 15.49 mm
Case Length 0.612 in. 15.54 mm Bullet Seating Depth 0.317 in. 8.04 mm
Cartridge O.A. Length 0.905 in. 22.99 mm Barrel/Tube Length 12.0 in. 304.8 mm
Shot Start / Init Pressure 2176 psi. 150.0 bar Cross Section Area of Bore 0.04827 in.² 0.3114 cm²
Propellant type Alliant POWER PISTOL
Charge Weight 2.0 gr. 0.13 gm Load Density 185.6 gr./in.³ 0.734 gm/cm³
Heat of Explosion, Potential 333.7 J/gr. 5150 J/gm Energy Density of Charge 61976 J/in.³ 3782 J/cm³
Propellant Solid Density 412.21 gr./in.³ 1.63 gm/cm³ Used Ratio of Specific Heats cp/cv 1.207
Burning Rate Factor Ba 2.13 1/s Weighting Factor 0.75
Burning Function Limit Z1 0.25 Prog.-/ Degressivity Factor a0 0.15
Factor b 1.176 Bulk Density 184.6 gr./in.³ 0.730 gm/cm³

Calculated and Estimated Data:
Bullet Shank Seating Depth 0.317 in. 8.04 mm Capacity Displaced by Seated Bullet 0.0157 in.³ 0.258 cm³
Useable Case Capacity 0.0108 in.³ 0.177 cm³ Bullet Travel at Muzzle Exit 11.7 in. 297.3 mm
Loading Ratio(''Density'') / Filling 100.6 % = compressed Charge Fraction Burnt at Shot Start 1.06 %
Predicted Data:
Maximum Chamber Pressure 25330 psi. 1746 bar
Bullet Travel at Pmax 0.13 in. 3.3 mm
at Muzzle Exit:
Bullet Velocity 1062 fps. 323.6 m/s Pressure at Muzzle 1027 psi. 71 bar
Bullet Energy 185 ft.lbs. 251 Joule Bullet Barrel Time 1.237 ms
Propellant Burnt 87.3 % Ballistic Efficiency 37.6 %
D A N G E R : PRESSURE EXCEEDS ALLOWED MAXIMUM LEVEL !
Real maximum (peak) of pressure is reached while bullet moves within barrel.
End of combustion occurs after the bullet's base passes muzzle.

The Curves Did Not Copy over.

Observations: this 2.0 grain charge weight is 'slightly' (1.32% over the Pmax. It, at 100.6% fill, a slightly Compressed charge.
The next Increment lower Charge Weight (1.99 grains) drops the Pmax below 25000psi and Velocity is also lower.

Obviously, Normal Reloading Practice is to start with a 10% lower Charge Weight and Slowly work up to final Charge IN THE FIREARM IN WHICH IT IS BEING TEST FIRED.
So the Calculated STARTING Charge is 2.0 x .90 = 1.80 Grains.

Best Regards,
Chev. William
 

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This last week I received Two New Ranch dog "TL255 series" molds from NOE!
The first is a four cavity Aluminum TL255-50-RF.
The second is a four cavity aluminum TL255-65-RF.

Al at NOE kindly designed and Made Tooling to be usable to make BOTH designs as part of a Group Buy so the Tooling costs were spread out over the Buy total run.

I am Very Happy with the Visual Inspection of the Molds I have done to date.
Now to get Them "Seasoned" and find a commercial bullet caster to 'place them with' for Production of bullets.

Chev. William
 

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Finally, at Last, Photos of a Center fire converted Ruger Standard Auto MKII Pistol, this one in .25ACP with an 8-1.8 inch long tapered Barrel:

The Modified Bolt Face. Note the enlarged Rim rebate to fit the .25ACP rim and the Centered round firing pin tip.


The top view of the Bolt with recoil assembly removed to show the new firing pin in its channel.


Left side of Modified MKII pistol with its new ~8" Barrel.


Right side of Modified MKII pistol wiht its ~8" long Barrel.

These Photos were taken by my Friend with a Camera that has a "Macro" Photo Capability.

Chev. William
 
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