[300rum]

hi!
I often hear that the wsm are worst than they're long action counter part on barrel wear.
i 'm trying to understand how it could be since from what i've read, erosion is calculated
using the bore size and amount of powder burned.
some say that since it push the same bullet at the same speed, with a smaller chamber
then there's more powder burning in the barrel than with a caliber with bigger chambers.
others say that it's because the wsm work at higher pressures ( not quite true if i check load data for both calibers, they seem equivalent ).
some one can explain it to me?
thanks

 

[300rum]

nobody knows, or they are the same?

 

[broom_jm]

If the short magnum cartridges are harder on barrel throats, it's because they generate equal pressure with a lower volume of powder, but in doing so, create a tremendous amount of heat. Heat and friction are what speed up throat erosion, which is why you should take a minute or two between shots with overbore cartridges like the 220 Swift, 257 Weatherby, 264WM and some of the newer rounds in WSSM, WSM, RUM, etc. By using the slowest burning powders you can alleviate this effect, to some degree.

 

[gunho1954]

throat erosion

throat erosion in a wsm is due mainly to large amounts of slow burning powder @high pressures. efoliation can also occur if you use log type powders in large amounts,eg-the old 2213 adi (h4831). they now produce h4831sc and also ball powders would be better.if you go to a slightly faster burn powder and reduce by 20% volume and are prepared to lose say 100 fps throat erosion is greatly reduced. in saying this, a 22ppc will show up throat erosion at around 2000 rounds,but ONLY proceeds up thr throat a very short distance,due to the lack of powder volume. in my expierence,any caliber will erode the throat when pushed hard. the wsm is no orphan there. also large diameter cases down to small bore is a killer,regardless of powder type and throw in a 40 degree shoulder angle,you will see rapid wear.

 

[gunho1954]

throat erosion

i dont know what powders wsm load factory with,but single base powdres burn around 300 degrees kelvin cooler than double base,and apparently show less errosion.this is what ive heard,and not a fact ill atest to,but bears looking into. good to know if you reload.must check .

 

[dmsbandit]

If anyone is worried about throat erosion, they should rethink their percieved needs for the cartridge. For 90% of hunting a standard cartridge can handle the job and not eat out the trhoat in 1000-2000 rds. Anything the 300magnums do can be done with the grand old 30-06. You just need to be mindful of the range and use good bullets.

 

[Farrier Matt]

If anyone is worried about throat erosion, they should rethink their percieved needs for the cartridge. For 90% of hunting a standard cartridge can handle the job and not eat out the trhoat in 1000-2000 rds. Anything the 300magnums do can be done with the grand old 30-06. You just need to be mindful of the range and use good bullets.

+1 from me.

 

[gunho1954]

If anyone is worried about throat erosion, they should rethink their percieved needs for the cartridge. For 90% of hunting a standard cartridge can handle the job and not eat out the trhoat in 1000-2000 rds. Anything the 300magnums do can be done with the grand old 30-06. You just need to be mindful of the range and use good bullets.

that pretty well sums it up in a nut shell.every one likes toys,hence the the big bangers.and they work well in a lot of situations.me- i tend to lean to bandits way of thinking--eg--i shot lots of medium to big critters including bull camels,with a 222.-IDEAL SHOT PLACEMENT.just shows what you can get away with.-in fairness they were shot on a commercial basis, but they are still just as dead.wsm's still have a place i think but dont sell well in oz.draw your own conclusions there is an old automotive saying-"theres no substitute fo cubes),which rings true most times on dangerous game.-in summary-place the shot and caliber is irrelevent.(to a degree)-

 

[GMFWoodchuck]

No matter what kind of cartridge you are using throat erosion occurs quicker when the barrel isn't allowed to cool off in between shots. You could burn out a .222 barrel in 1000 rounds and a 220 swift in 5000 rounds depending on the severity of usage.

But understand that appreciable throat erosion doesn't normally occur until several thousand rounds under reasonable circumstances. And even at that, throat erosion doesn't mean that you will get less accuracy. Won't get better I'm sure. Keep in mind, you can actually adjust and fine tune loads to compensate for throat erosion.

What little theoretical difference there is between the throat erosion of a 300WSM and a 300 win mag is for sure to be laughable, though. Honestly, you're not comparing a 30-378 weatherby to a 30-30.

If you want a WSM, get it. Don't let some fool at a hunting club (or wherever you got this information) discourage you from getting one because of some ridiculous preconceived notion.

 

[fritz1]

If anyone is worried about throat erosion, they should rethink their percieved needs for the cartridge. For 90% of hunting a standard cartridge can handle the job and not eat out the trhoat in 1000-2000 rds. Anything the 300magnums do can be done with the grand old 30-06. You just need to be mindful of the range and use good bullets.

+1 Here, I agree 100%!

 

[fritz1]

From my understanding, throat erosion is not really caused from speed of the bullet but rather from the cartriges that are overbored cant burn the ammount of powder used to create the nessasary pressure in the bore, causing it to be blown down the barrel before it is burnt, which is pretty much like sand blasting the throat, after time this eroades the throat and causes shortened barrel life. Take for example a 223 shooting a 40gr. v-max bullet at 3800fps is going to have a longer barrel life than say a 220 swift or a 22-250 shooting the same bullet at the same velocities.

 

[MontyF]

The reality of it is for most people throat erosion is a non issue. After load development is finished, most hunters usually shoot a couple rounds to check zero and then fire one or maybe two rounds per head of game taken. That being the case, the worst barrel burner could last a hunter for decades.

 

[broom_jm]

Yep, Monty got it right! Unless you're a benchrest shooter, or expect that kind of accuracy from your big game rifles, throat erosion isn't going to matter all that much. You aren't even likely to see the effects of it, unless you happen to shoot your gun a whole lot more than most guys do. The 300WSM isn't going to be used for serious, high-volume varmint shooting, and while the 1,000 yard competition guys might try it out, for the vast majority of guys who will just use it to hunt big game, this entire thread is a moot point.

 

[TMan]

No matter what kind of cartridge you are using throat erosion occurs quicker when the barrel isn't allowed to cool off in between shots. You could burn out a .222 barrel in 1000 rounds and a 220 swift in 5000 rounds depending on the severity of usage.

Many years ago, I headed west for my first antelope hunt. One of the opportunities on the trip, was after your goat was in the bag, you could spend your time shooting prairie dogs, all day long if you wanted to. I shot my very first antelope, at about 9:00 in the morning, first day.

But I came prepared. A long time groundhog shooter, I had headed west with 200rds of 60gr Sierra HP's, cranked up for serious long range shooting. It was gone by dinner time. The next day I was at a sportshop in Douglas, loading up on Winchester 70gr'er's, and a cleaning kit. By the time I left WY, the shop was throwing a party My .243 needed a new barrel.

 

[Silent Sam]

That's a new one. I would ask what rifles they have that are exhibiting the throat erosion problem. There is a lot of negative chatter about the WSM cartridges that is, let's say, unsubstantiated. I believe at least the 270 and 300WSM Winchester rounds are using W760, but ammo manufacturers are not talking. Not surprising. Many don't see a need for magnum cartridges but that doesn't mean they aren't the right answer for others. My experience is they work as advertised. I've shot a few 300WSM rifles from different manufacturers and they all were generally more accurate out of the box than similar rifles in their comparable chamberings and not particularly finicky about loads. I'm sure some have found WSM rifles that didn't shoot well. That happens regardless of the cartridge.

 

[300rum]

Thanks guys!

 

[winbag338]

I own a 300wsm and i handload for it just above what an 06 can do. So i guess you can say i now have the worlds best cartridge ever made and only a modest amount more of throat errosion.
However i also own a 338 win mag which i also handload for, and its just over what a 06 can do. So maybe its the worlds greatest cartridge ever with even less throat errosion. Maybe.

 

[OneShotKill]

If anyone is worried about throat erosion, they should rethink their percieved needs for the cartridge. For 90% of hunting a standard cartridge can handle the job and not eat out the trhoat in 1000-2000 rds. Anything the 300magnums do can be done with the grand old 30-06. You just need to be mindful of the range and use good bullets.

I stand in the line of posters who agree with this comment. In the 7th Edition of the Hornady Handbook, they say this of the 223 WSSM. "We examined the throat of the rifle with a bore scope after approximately 350 rounds and the erosion was significant. This cartridge is hard on barrels."

For guys who love their short magnums, I'm happy for them, but after 350 shots I'm happy I don't own a 223WSSM. I do just fine with my standard cartridges, with the 223 being one of them. The game I shoot doesn't know the difference and the result is the same.

How much further are we shooting our game that we need a short magnum to get the job done? The standard cartidges have done well for a lot of shooters, and I agree with dmsbandit about being mindful of the range and use good bullets. I'd just add that I would suggest (as always!) that we choose the appropriate cartridge for the game we're after.

 

[hailstone]

Original post was about the WSM family of cartridges not the WSSM family. I've heard about the erosion in the WSSM line quite a lot but very little on the WSM family. Many good points made by several individuals. Don't believe this question will be answered until the documented proof is established. What ever nonsense some gun writing hack says too sell more copy for a publisher will always be out there.